Used Equipment List Updated

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avahifi

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Used Equipment List Updated
« on: 1 Aug 2007, 05:39 pm »
Just a heads up that I have updated the AVA web site used equipment list today with several interesting items.

In addition, we have a very small summer special offer on a couple of in stock brand new Transcendence Eight vacuum tube preamplifiers with RIAA phono and Remote Control circuits.  One is a return from a TAS reviewer, another is a satisfaction guarantee return (can't win them all).  In any event, these are new, in new condition, with the new AVA three year parts and labor warranty and 30 day satisfaction guarantee.

The deal?  Free remote control.  You pay for the preamp ($1099) and the installed RIAA phono option ($299) and get the installed Remote Control option ($299) free.  Two only available. Both have 6N1P line tubes and the most recent grounding revision of course.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

martyo

Re: Used Equipment List Updated
« Reply #1 on: 1 Aug 2007, 06:49 pm »
That's a real nice special Frank. :thumb: I really wish I'd gotten the remote when I bought mine.

martyo

Re: Used Equipment List Updated
« Reply #2 on: 4 Aug 2007, 03:13 am »
Brian, we got a couple of good ones. :thumb:

 Originally I was on a 3 year plan, preamp, amp, DAC. Ended up getting both the amp and preamp in April and I'll be giving Frank a call in a couple of weeks for the DAC. aa

I'll let you know how it sounds with the T8. :)

Wayner

Re: Used Equipment List Updated
« Reply #3 on: 4 Aug 2007, 01:11 pm »
BrianM,

You could tell her that at least it keeps you home, not wondering the countryside looking for......better Hi-Fi. It is a hobbie made for sharing so you got that going for you, which is nice!  aa

W

rustneversleeps

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How could this be?????????
« Reply #4 on: 4 Aug 2007, 08:07 pm »
The used 1993 Fet Valve preamp price is $695, the used 1996 Fet Valve DAC is also $695.

Base on the 1996 new price list the preamp was $849 new, the DAC is $899 new. That means the 1993 preamp only decreased by 18% (if I dug up the 1993 price list, it probably would have had a lower %), and the 1996 DAC only decreases by 22% comparing to the new price.

I know Frank makes good stuff, but how could ones justify paying almost new prices for over ten years old equipment?

For $595, the 1996 Pas 3 actually had a price increase or close to the original price.

What is the blue book value on these used equipment, I wonder.

Doesn't mean to be critical, but I just have to ask.

martyo

Re: Used Equipment List Updated
« Reply #5 on: 4 Aug 2007, 09:07 pm »
This is how I look at it Rusty,
Quote
The used 1993 Fet Valve preamp price is $695, the used 1996 Fet Valve DAC is also $695.

Base on the 1996 new price list the preamp was $849 new, the DAC is $899 new. That means the 1993 preamp only decreased by 18% (if I dug up the 1993 price list, it probably would have had a lower %), and the 1996 DAC only decreases by 22% comparing to the new price.
Since this is 2007, using an inflation rate of 3% a year(it's probably higher)which is how much less our money is worth now as opposed to 1996, it's probably closer to half price for the preamp and a little less than half for the DAC.

Then the current market, both AVA prices and the market in general, what does $700 buy.
 
And how a product depreciates based on it's original quality and long term comparison to similar products.
Like a Camry's(built in America) depreciation compared to an Impala or Taurus.

Quote
What is the blue book value on these used equipment, I wonder.

You can go to Audiogon, they give you "blue book" values, but you have to pay to join to get them
It also works both ways, I just traded in a Super Pas 3i on a T8. I was really surprised how much Frank gave me, I thought he was being VERY generous, but then after checking it out on the bench, he resold it for more than I got on the trade. It made it easier for my purchase and someone else got a quality used piece of gear and Frank made a couple of bucks which is always good when your in business.

I've heard some people complain about his upgrades. I'm not sure what they expect. You send in a 10 year old piece of equipment, reuse the chassis and save $3-400 on what a new unit would cost. It's even good environmentally. It seems to me to be a rare win/win type of deal.

Probably the biggest piece of all of this is sonically what you get from  a piece of AVA equipment for the money whether it's new or used.

That's my opinion, for what it's worth, not much.

Toka

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Re: Used Equipment List Updated
« Reply #6 on: 4 Aug 2007, 09:59 pm »
Good points martyo. Another factor is the warranty/bench-check that comes with the used gear...certainly, the 'bluebook'/recent A'gon sale prices maybe be lower, but what if something was futzed with and it blows up 2 months later?

rustneversleeps

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Re: Used Equipment List Updated
« Reply #7 on: 5 Aug 2007, 10:29 pm »
What about the wears and tears on parts? I just don't think that a piece of electronic equipment that had over 10 years of service should only depreciate 18 to 22%. They are not antique yet, not when new upgrade are still available.

martyo

Re: Used Equipment List Updated
« Reply #8 on: 6 Aug 2007, 12:04 am »
You're right about the parts being ten years old.
YMMV

rustneversleeps

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Re: Used Equipment List Updated
« Reply #9 on: 8 Aug 2007, 03:41 am »
How often Frank comes up with the upgrade?

By looking at the used equipment list, some of the amps are from 1996, after that the Ex series, then the Ultra.

As far as the Top-Dac, if memory serves me well, it's never had an upgrade until the Ultra.

Consider the age of some of the used equipment, I just don't think it justifies just a 18%-22% decrease.

It may justify a 18%-22% decrease if the equipment are 3 to 5 years old.

avahifi

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Re: Used Equipment List Updated
« Reply #10 on: 8 Aug 2007, 12:26 pm »
Rusty, if you don't like the prices, don't buy.

Perhaps I should have stated the prices in terms of percent of price of a $1000 power cord price.

This unit is priced at 2/3 the cost of a power cord, etc.

Would that make you happier?

Frank

avahifi_lj

Re: Used Equipment List Updated
« Reply #11 on: 8 Aug 2007, 01:33 pm »

As far as the Top-Dac, if memory serves me well, it's never had an upgrade until the Ultra.


The Top-Dac, or solid state DAC, was upgraded to the Omega4 DAC and then to the current OmegaStar DAC.  The Ultra DAC has it's root in the old FetValve DAC.

Larry

rustneversleeps

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Re: Used Equipment List Updated
« Reply #12 on: 8 Aug 2007, 04:59 pm »
Sorry gentlemen, for dwelling on the price issues a bit too much, maybe I make my point based on the current electronic market, what you buy today will be obsolete tomorrow, and the technology advances at quadruple rate annually.

The solid state DAC must have come out after 1996 then, the Fet-valve DAC was the only DAC listed on the 1996 catalog.

Dan Kolton

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Re: Used Equipment List Updated
« Reply #13 on: 8 Aug 2007, 09:22 pm »
Hey, Rust,
If you don't like the price, don't buy it.  My Ultra pre is in for tube upgrade, and I'm quite happy listening to a God knows how old Solid state Transcendence in the interim.  Not that I won't be able to hear the difference, but Frank's older equipment sounds awful damn good!

mark funk

Re: Used Equipment List Updated
« Reply #14 on: 8 Aug 2007, 09:23 pm »
Yes BrianM, I do not think HiFI ( not midfi) equipment goes obsolete any were near as fast as CPUs and the like. I know what a Super PAS3i ( I think it was made in 1996)  a T-5 SLR (2004) and a T-8 (6n1p) sound like. Yes all of them sound better as time goes on. I also remember back in 1996 what my CPU was then and what I have now, back then if you said you had 1Gig of ram people would look at you and say what! And that's is just ten years. Your HiFI well not be obsolete in five or ten years if then, but in five years just think of what kind of cables we will have then?? :smoke:

rustneversleeps

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Re: Used Equipment List Updated
« Reply #15 on: 8 Aug 2007, 11:52 pm »
No need  to get into CPU, how about CD players?

I am always looking out for bargain in stereo equipment. I paid $200 close out price for a AMC CD-8 player back in 2001. And I paid $200 close-out price for a Cambridge player in 2005, I can definitly hear the difference in sound that the  Cambridge is at least 4 times better than the AMC. I thought AMC was the all time hi fi bargain before that.

Turntable is a different story, my thorens 125 and Empire can beat todays Pro-ject, VPI, Music Fidelity with no problem, and I paid 1/3 of what they would charge for a new table. So where do we draw the line?

I paid $700 for a 1996 AVA 550 a year ago which I think it a fair price, if I spend $1000 for the Ultra upgrade it's still a all time hi fi bargain, don't you think?

Sometime it's part of the fun, finding good hi fi at good price, I've thought about buying equipment brand new, but just don't want to pay for the premium price, definitely don't want to pay the used premium price.

Wayner

Re: Used Equipment List Updated
« Reply #16 on: 9 Aug 2007, 12:47 am »
Rusty, Rusty, Rusty....A nice used piece of AVA is still very fine. It beats almost anything out there of the same time period and it's built like a tank. Think of it in a different way. If you spent $1000 and it lasted 10 years, thats $100 a year. If you spent $500 on a piece of "junk" and you got 3 years out of it that is $166.66 a year. Math is easy this way bud. I'm sure Frank would be more than happy to send you out some nice used gear. You will enjoy it and it will last for a long time.

Relax, be happy!

 aa

slc247

Re: Used Equipment List Updated
« Reply #17 on: 9 Aug 2007, 03:10 am »
Is that the 550 that you told me was thin?? Actually its a 90 that was upgraded in 96, and we know how you feel about upgrades. That means you paid 700 bucks for an amp thats got parts in it 17 years old now.
« Last Edit: 9 Aug 2007, 03:28 am by slc247 »

Brett Buck

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Re: Used Equipment List Updated
« Reply #18 on: 9 Aug 2007, 04:20 am »
Sorry gentlemen, for dwelling on the price issues a bit too much, maybe I make my point based on the current electronic market, what you buy today will be obsolete tomorrow, and the technology advances at quadruple rate annually.


    Huh?   This is, frankly, absurd. Audio amps will probably NEVER go obsolete, and audio amplifier technology hasn't changed dramatically in 40 years (and if you ignore that one change (the transistor)) it's more like 60-70 years). The "rapid development with drastic change" period of analog audio technology is *long* over.   The changes being made now are valuable and good changes, but hardly stunning breakthroughs in the larger scheme of things.

   The analogy you seem to be making between computer technology and audio equipment is absolutely ludicrous.

   And, I might add, if a computer could do what you needed 10 years ago, it will still do exactly the same job now. I use a 10-year-old computer every single day at work (PowerMac 8600/300) and it's still doing exactly what we need it to do, no "obsolescence" in any sense.
    Brett

martyo

Re: Used Equipment List Updated
« Reply #19 on: 9 Aug 2007, 01:14 pm »
                                                   
                                                          :deadhorse:


IMHO   :wink: