[*Scotty*]

Ray you are not going to like this, a little over two years ago I cleaned out two local Radio Shacks and purchased 7 rolls of solder that is copper bearing and intended for circuit board repair. It has no silver in it. Of course the reason for purchasing this much solder at one time is because Radio Shack decided to stop selling it. As I don't do a lot of projects this amount, though dwindling slowly, should keep me going for a while longer. Eventually I will have to find more solder that is what I deem sonically suitable to use within the context of my system.
Electrowise looks promising to me and I will have to check their solder when the time comes.
   I have a very fast sounding system with equal energy
present across the spectrum of 20 to 20,000 Hz. The silver bearing solder unbalances the the relationship between the highs and the lows and changes the timbre of instruments and vocals. The higher frequency harmonics are slightly overemphasized and not as clean as they are compared to copper bearing solder which does not exhibit these characteristics in my system. I don't think my expectations for music reproduction or the system I am using to satisfy my desires are representative of most of the people in this hobby. For these reasons your results could be exactly the opposite of mine. I would try the Electrowise solder and see if you think it is better than the wonder solder in your system.
Scotty

[guest1632]

Ray you are not going to like this, a little over two years ago I cleaned out two local Radio Shacks and purchased 7 rolls of solder that is copper bearing and intended for circuit board repair. It has no silver in it. Of course the reason for purchasing this much solder at one time is because Radio Shack decided to stop selling it. As I don't do a lot of projects this amount, though dwindling slowly, should keep me going for a while longer. Eventually I will have to find more solder that is what I deem sonically suitable to use within the context of my system.
Electrowise looks promising to me and I will have to check their solder when the time comes.
   I have a very fast sounding system with equal energy
present across the spectrum of 20 to 20,000 Hz. The silver bearing solder unbalances the the relationship between the highs and the lows and changes the timbre of instruments and vocals. The higher frequency harmonics are slightly overemphasized and not as clean as they are compared to copper bearing solder which does not exhibit these characteristics in my system. I don't think my expectations for music reproduction or the system I am using to satisfy my desires are representative of most of the people in this hobby. For these reasons your results could be exactly the opposite of mine. I would try the Electrowise solder and see if you think it is better than the wonder solder in your system.
Scotty

Hi Scotty,

I don't know about liking or not liking this, lol, but that's ok. Apparently, if memmory serves me right, it has the same core as WBT solder. I think the Electrowise is like $30 a pound. So not bad. I'll be trying some of the WBT stuff today, not in an audio usage. I have to splice some wires for a fan. Can you give me a part number, and I'll go back to Radio Shack and see if they have it in stock. There are a few RadShack stores around here. Is is one of those little tubes or is it a spool?

Ray

[Steve Eddy]

I think the Electrowise is like $30 a pound. So not bad.

I had some hopes for the AIM SN100C (which is the lead-free solder Electrowise sells) a while back. It's not a bad solder but the flux eats tips for breakfast. I stopped using it and went back to the Johnson IA-423 with their OR-120 water soluble organic flux which has been a favorite of mine for quite a while.

I recently discovered that Kester is licensed to make the SN100 alloy and they're selling it as K100LD with their 331 organic flux (as well as with their 48 activated rosin core and 275 no clean flux). Been meaning to get some to try but haven't got 'round to it yet.

I still have some of the AIM SN100C here. I'd be happy to send you a sample of it along with some IA-423. Just shoot me an EMail with a mailing address.

se

[*Scotty*]

Ray to my knowledge this solder is discontinued but here is the RS part number. The part number is 64-027.
I think this stuff is now in the ubobtainium category. This is a rosin core solder with an optimum soldering temperature according to RS of 590 degrees F.
Scotty

[jneutron]

Guys

Do not use 100% tin.  Anything that melts 232 C is definitely pure tin.  Unless you like whiskers and pest.

Course, even if you use lead/tin, you all now have to live with whiskers anyway....2/3rds of all the components manufactured now have pure tin matte plating.

Sigh..what stupidity the ROHS edict is.

Luckily, in my line of work, everything falls into category 9, which is exempt..

Cheers, John

[Steve Eddy]

Hey John!

Do not use 100% tin.  Anything that melts 232 C is definitely pure tin.  Unless you like whiskers and pest.

Even though it's called SN100, it's not actually 100% tin. They add a little bit of copper and some trace amounts of germanium.

Don't know if that's enough to prevent tin whiskers. Just pointing out that it's not fully 100% tin.

Course, even if you use lead/tin, you all now have to live with whiskers anyway....2/3rds of all the components manufactured now have pure tin matte plating.

Yup.

Sigh..what stupidity the ROHS edict is.

That it is. I see no reason why they couldn't have taken a recycling approach rather than an all out ban.

Luckily, in my line of work, everything falls into category 9, which is exempt..

Hmmm. Wonder if the military has any interest in audio cables?

se

[guest1632]

Hey John!

Do not use 100% tin.  Anything that melts 232 C is definitely pure tin.  Unless you like whiskers and pest.

Even though it's called SN100, it's not actually 100% tin. They add a little bit of copper and some trace amounts of germanium.

Don't know if that's enough to prevent tin whiskers. Just pointing out that it's not fully 100% tin.

Course, even if you use lead/tin, you all now have to live with whiskers anyway....2/3rds of all the components manufactured now have pure tin matte plating.

Yup.

Sigh..what stupidity the ROHS edict is.

That it is. I see no reason why they couldn't have taken a recycling approach rather than an all out ban.

Luckily, in my line of work, everything falls into category 9, which is exempt..

Hmmm. Wonder if the military has any interest in audio cables?

se

Send me an email:

raybronk@comcast.net

We can take it from there.

Have you tried the Vampire solder, withits water soluable resin.

So john, again, what solder do you suggest. I don't care if it has lead in it.

This Rho compliance, so I understand is exempt for computers and TVs. So apparently some of the computer vendors like harddrive though are trying to be Rho compliant. Looks good for marketing. heheh.

Ray

[jneutron]

Hey John!

Do not use 100% tin.  Anything that melts 232 C is definitely pure tin.  Unless you like whiskers and pest.

Even though it's called SN100, it's not actually 100% tin. They add a little bit of copper and some trace amounts of germanium.

They have sn100, which is pure tin and 232 C, and they have K100, which is eutectic tin/copper and 227 C, their solution to copper scavenging..  I didn't find any other info on sn100 on the kester site, other than it's pure tin..

Did you find more info??  If so, could you post the link?  Thanks..

Don't know if that's enough to prevent tin whiskers. Just pointing out that it's not fully 100% tin.

If it does, Kester doesn't seem to know about it.  If they did, they'd be playing it up big time...

Course, even if you use lead/tin, you all now have to live with whiskers anyway....2/3rds of all the components manufactured now have pure tin matte plating.

Yup.

Sigh..what stupidity the ROHS edict is.

That it is. I see no reason why they couldn't have taken a recycling approach rather than an all out ban.

Luckily, in my line of work, everything falls into category 9, which is exempt..

Hmmm. Wonder if the military has any interest in audio cables?
se

Category 9 is monitoring and control, such as smoke detectors, heat regulators, thermostats, measuring, industrial control...

Fixed installation is also exempt, as it is not destined to be placed on the market..

And yes, flight, space, military, and medical. Exempt because of reliability problems with lead free..sigh.


The whole concept is geared towards reducing the waste stream lead content...but the big problem is, the manufactureres are now designing their product for a two or three year life cycle.  That way, they don't have to worry about tin whiskers killing their product within the life cycle.

So, billions of tons of dead cell phones, tv's, computers, stereo's heading to the waste stream within 2 or 3 years, so that things with a small amount of lead that last ten times longer....don't???

Penny wise, pound foolish..

Cheers, John

[jneutron]

So john, again, what solder do you suggest. I don't care if it has lead in it.

This Rho compliance, so I understand is exempt for computers and TVs. So apparently some of the computer vendors like harddrive though are trying to be Rho compliant. Looks good for marketing. heheh.
Ray

I'm not sure comps and tv's are exempt.  They are not critical systems. (well, they shouldn't be..)

I use eutectic tin/silver with an R core.  Had to special order it from Kester, used either 300 or 400 pounds of it, I'm not sure..  But it was all destined for cryogenic application, anything from small signal to 7 Kiloamps.

Use Kester 44 for general purpose non cryogenic.

In all my work and play, I've never had any issues with the alloy constituents of the solder.  Other than the melting point being too high for some applications, or the flux being either no good, or no good for the basis metals of the parts.

Don't forget, ROHS is not just about lead, there's other bad things they want to get rid of..

Cheers, John

[Steve Eddy]

They have sn100, which is pure tin and 232 C, and they have K100, which is eutectic tin/copper and 227 C, their solution to copper scavenging..  I didn't find any other info on sn100 on the kester site, other than it's pure tin..

Did you find more info??  If so, could you post the link?  Thanks..

SN100 is the designation Nihon Superior over in Japan gave it. They're the ones who patented that particular alloy. Patent number's 6,296,722. Their website's http://www.nihonsuperior.co.jp/english/

If it does, Kester doesn't seem to know about it.  If they did, they'd be playing it up big time...

Dunno. Like I said, it's Nihon's patent, Kester's just a licensee.

The whole concept is geared towards reducing the waste stream lead content...but the big problem is, the manufactureres are now designing their product for a two or three year life cycle.  That way, they don't have to worry about tin whiskers killing their product within the life cycle.

So, billions of tons of dead cell phones, tv's, computers, stereo's heading to the waste stream within 2 or 3 years, so that things with a small amount of lead that last ten times longer....don't???

Penny wise, pound foolish..

That's "Euro foolish" these days.

se

[Steve Eddy]

Don't forget, ROHS is not just about lead, there's other bad things they want to get rid of..

Yeah, like mercury, which is used in those compact fluorescent bulbs they want us to replace all our incandescents with.

I'm not a big fan of Rush Limbaugh, but his "environmentalist whacko" catch phrase is sure befitting of some of these clowns.

se

[guest1632]

Ray to my knowledge this solder is discontinued but here is the RS part number. The part number is 64-027.
I think this stuff is now in the ubobtainium category. This is a rosin core solder with an optimum soldering temperature according to RS of 590 degrees F.
Scotty

Hi Scotty,

You are correct. That number doesn't even show up under a RadShack catalog number.

John, this Kester 44 solder, is this the old standard 60/40 stuff.

Ray

[Steve Eddy]

John, this Kester 44 solder, is this the old standard 60/40 stuff.

"44" is the flux type. You can get it with both 63/37 eutectic or 60/40 wire solders.

Techni-Tool carries all of the Kester solders. Here's the appropriate webpage:

Kester Wire & Bar Solder

Click on the appropriate catalog number for pricing.

se

[guest1632]

John, this Kester 44 solder, is this the old standard 60/40 stuff.

"44" is the flux type. You can get it with both 63/37 eutectic or 60/40 wire solders.

Techni-Tool carries all of the Kester solders. Here's the appropriate webpage:

Kester Wire & Bar Solder

Click on the appropriate catalog number for pricing.

se

 Hi Steve,

I was looking at the various solders, and other than the part number, don't understand the differences.

Ray

[Steve Eddy]

I was looking at the various solders, and other than the part number, don't understand the differences.

They're grouped by leaded and lead-free. Within those groups they're broken down by flux type and within each flux type they have the different alloys and sizes available with that flux.

The 44 flux is a highly activated flux which is the more aggressive of the fluxes. It does a better job of removing oxides and other gunk and gives better wetting overall. The 285 RMA flux is a mildly activated flux. Not as aggressive, doesn't wet quite as well as the 44. The 245 no-clean rosin flux is pretty self-explanatory. The residue isn't conductive and won't cause corrosion and can be left in place.

This help?

se

[guest1632]

I was looking at the various solders, and other than the part number, don't understand the differences.

They're grouped by leaded and lead-free. Within those groups they're broken down by flux type and within each flux type they have the different alloys and sizes available with that flux.

The 44 flux is a highly activated flux which is the more aggressive of the fluxes. It does a better job of removing oxides and other gunk and gives better wetting overall. The 285 RMA flux is a mildly activated flux. Not as aggressive, doesn't wet quite as well as the 44. The 245 no-clean rosin flux is pretty self-explanatory. The residue isn't conductive and won't cause corrosion and can be left in place.

This help?

se

I think so. I'll look again.

Ray

[Steve Eddy]

I think so. I'll look again.

Okie doke.

se

[guest1632]

I think the Electrowise is like $30 a pound. So not bad.

I had some hopes for the AIM SN100C (which is the lead-free solder Electrowise sells) a while back. It's not a bad solder but the flux eats tips for breakfast. I stopped using it and went back to the Johnson IA-423 with their OR-120 water soluble organic flux which has been a favorite of mine for quite a while.

I recently discovered that Kester is licensed to make the SN100 alloy and they're selling it as K100LD with their 331 organic flux (as well as with their 48 activated rosin core and 275 no clean flux). Been meaning to get some to try but haven't got 'round to it yet.

I still have some of the AIM SN100C here. I'd be happy to send you a sample of it along with some IA-423. Just shoot me an EMail with a mailing address.

se

Hi Steve,

I was interested in the electrowise til you told me about the flux eating tips for breakfast. Not good. So the Johnson stuff I'd be interested in getting. Email me further and we'll go from there.

raybronk@comcast.net

Ray

[jneutron]

SN100 is the designation Nihon Superior over in Japan gave it. They're the ones who patented that particular alloy. Patent number's 6,296,722. Their website's http://www.nihonsuperior.co.jp/english/

Ah, thank you.  No wonder I couldn't find it...

Cheers, John

[guest1632]

I was looking at the various solders, and other than the part number, don't understand the differences.

They're grouped by leaded and lead-free. Within those groups they're broken down by flux type and within each flux type they have the different alloys and sizes available with that flux.

The 44 flux is a highly activated flux which is the more aggressive of the fluxes. It does a better job of removing oxides and other gunk and gives better wetting overall. The 285 RMA flux is a mildly activated flux. Not as aggressive, doesn't wet quite as well as the 44. The 245 no-clean rosin flux is pretty self-explanatory. The residue isn't conductive and won't cause corrosion and can be left in place.

This help?

se

Hi Steve,

Ok, I could see the various catagories but don't have a clue to the various alloy types.

http://www.techni-tool.com/static-products/kester/KesterWire_BarSolder.html

Still don't understand which one to get? Sorry.

Ray