SSR/Dayton RS180

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Cacophonix

SSR/Dayton RS180
« on: 11 Jul 2007, 05:54 pm »
This is an offshoot of the thread that i had started earlier during the construction of my speakers. Now that its completed, and is playing at my place, i thought a new thread was warranted.

I had a satellite/sub 5.1 combo earlier, and there were wires all over the place. My living room is such that i cannot hide the wires. My wife wasn't too happy with this arrangement, and so i decided to get a good tower speaker that can image very well and put out enough bass. I wanted to get rid of my sat/sub combo and go with just this 2ch setup.

After lengthy reading of the forums here, i decided that Rick would be an ideal person to build a customized solution for me. Initially i was very keen on a pair of line arrays < 1k, but soon gave up the idea as the choice of drivers were limited. At that time SSR was gathering a lot of rave reviews, and after reading DSK's threads, i decided that SSR with a sub built in would suit me fine. Rick suggested that i go with dual RS180 as it fit my budget (~$1k), and sent me the kit in about 3 weeks.

I tried building the cabinet on my own but soon realized that it was not possible staying at my apartment. I started looking out for someone who can at least do a flat pack. After lengthy searching, i found a guy at my work who owned a wood working business on the side. He offered to do the entire speaker at such a price that i could not say no. I had no blueprint for the speakers, and most of the instructions were just drawn on a piece of paper...and that created a few issues along the way. But they were quite easily resolved, and as you can see the cabinets have come out beautifully. Ever since i saw ronin speakers in bamboo, i wanted to finish my speakers with bamboo as well. I tried to buy bamboo ply, but could not find any dealers in dallas. So i decided to just buy veneer instead. The speakers were finished in caramelized bamboo with real walnut trims. Catalyzed lacquer was sprayed on the speakers as the only finish. This made the veneer a lot darker than what i had in mind. But still the contrast stands out, and looks quite nice, i think.  8)

I lined the cabinets with OC703 1" fiberglass. Its a little messier than probably using acoustic mats from PE/Danny/whispermat, but i guess its just as good. The folks at HTGuide seem to be pretty happy with this fiberglass. I had some dayton chrome spikes was attached to the bottom of SSR section, and it sits on the bass module. But it seems a little fragile. I will be drilling the floor discs into the bass module, so that the SSR section can withstand accidental nudges.

As for the sound, its still burning in, and i haven't sat down for any serious listening. Since the SSR is tuned to 50Hz, i don't hear as much bass coming from RS180 as much as feeling them. I had turned them  up initially, just so that i can "hear" bass, and almost ended up overdriving the woofers. I still need to position them correctly, but the way my living room is built, there is very little room for maneuvering.

They sound very very good for music. But for movies, without the center channel, I still don't get that center imaging. I guess, i'll have to move the speakers around a little, and toe them in. The bass though is prodigious. I'm constantly looking out for my downstairs neighbors to come knocking in to complain.

I'll update the thread as soon as i take some time off to listen to the speakers critically. But so far, they are very very good. :thumb:  :thumb:

Thanks once again to Rick! He was a pleasure to deal with, who answered all my questions very quickly.
Thanks to DSK too for writing in detail about his SSR and their construction plans.
















drmike

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Re: SSR/Dayton RS180
« Reply #1 on: 11 Jul 2007, 07:36 pm »
nice job! i like the looks of the sub, i'm looking for something new to go with my ssr's.
what are the dimensions of the sub box?
thanks,
drmike

Cacophonix

Re: SSR/Dayton RS180
« Reply #2 on: 11 Jul 2007, 07:49 pm »
Both SSR and sub are of the same dimensions. 9.5"x12.5"x19"
« Last Edit: 13 Jul 2007, 02:08 am by Cacophonix »

JoshK

Re: SSR/Dayton RS180
« Reply #3 on: 11 Jul 2007, 08:06 pm »
nice looking speakers.  I bet the TV between your speakers is killing your center image.  If it is possible, try pull the speakers out a foot or two more so that they are in front of the TV more and you might get your image back.   Near reflections between your speakers is murder on the imaging.   If you want to quickly test this theory throw a thick blanket over the TV and see if that improves things.  Double the blanket up a few times to make it more effective. 

bpape

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Re: SSR/Dayton RS180
« Reply #4 on: 11 Jul 2007, 11:31 pm »
Nice looking set of SSR's! 

Imaging was the last thing I had an issue with when I had them for review.  They'll image like mad if set up right.  Try to be maybe 15-20 degrees off axis and get them about 2' from the front wall and you'll be amazed.

Bryan

Rick Craig

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Re: SSR/Dayton RS180
« Reply #5 on: 12 Jul 2007, 02:06 am »
Thanks for posting your thoughts and pictures. The walnut trim makes a nice contrast with the bamboo.

This was a fun project to work on. We had a tight budget and constraints on the cabinet width so the RS180 woofers and Bash amps were the best choice. With equalization available from the amp the subs are -3db @21hz in a compact sealed box! The two 7" drivers result in the surface area of a 10" woofer. The natural rolloff of the sealed SSR blends very well with the subwoofer for good integration.

DSK

Re: SSR/Dayton RS180
« Reply #6 on: 13 Jul 2007, 12:39 am »
Hey Cac,
Great looking boxes! I love the walnut trims.

I agree with Bryan and Josh, the SSR's have great imaging if you can move them out a bit and resolve the TV issue. I have mine aimed at a spot half way between zero toe-in and my head. This gives me the best balance of soundstaging, imaging, fill etc. The speakers simply disappear. You probably already know this but the optimal listening height is with your ears level with a point that is half way between the ribbon's midpoint and the midpoint of the gap between the ribbon and woofer frames (ie. level with the lower part of the ribbon).

Although bigger, multi-way speakers may be required for even greater dynamics and power handling in huge rooms, to me there is something magical about about a top class sealed 2-way when properly integrated with a great sealed sub. Narrower baffle, better imaging, tighter and cleaner bass, greater LF extension, the ability to move the speakers closer to the wall if required, etc. However, the omission of the additional filter (from mid to woofer in a 3+ way speaker) in the 150-400Hz region (Where some of the fundamentals of most instruments/vocals reside) and the fact that this range is performed by one driver rather than two, seems to make for a more coherent and lively performance. There seems to be a little of the magic here of the live performance that many multi-way speakers seem to lack or flatten a little. I'm no speaker/xo designer, so blaming the extra filter & driver in multi-ways for the degredation I often hear in this range is just my uneducated guess at the cause.

I have a couple of pairs of the ACI HP filters (65Hz & 85Hz) in a drawer somewhere that I may try one day. however, this SS Revelator driver (running full range) plays very loud with no audible signs of stress or compression and, with the sub, easily energises the room (19'x24'x9') with extremely natural sound at close to lifelike levels. I usually jump at tweaks that offer the possibility of improvements, but I just haven't felt compelled to try this yet.

The SSR's sound great from the start, but open up, relax and disappear further by approx 100 hours. And, they do seem to like a bit of power.

Enjoy them Cacophonix, let the good times roll!  :D

Bigfish

Re: SSR/Dayton RS180
« Reply #7 on: 13 Jul 2007, 03:07 am »
You did an awesome job with the speakers.  They look absolutely fantastic!

Ken

Cacophonix

Re: SSR/Dayton RS180
« Reply #8 on: 13 Jul 2007, 03:38 am »
You did an awesome job with the speakers.  They look absolutely fantastic!

Ken

Credit goes to the guy who built the cabinets!  :lol:
I only wish the bamboo was blonde rather than caramelized. It'd have looked even better.

I was just lucky that i found someone at my workplace. The others that i got a quote from were way too expensive for me.I was hell bent on keeping this project under a tight budget, and I'm glad to say that i succeeded to a large extent.

mpauly

Re: SSR/Dayton RS180
« Reply #9 on: 14 Jul 2007, 09:51 pm »
If I remember correctly, you used to have a pair of RAW HT3's and a couple of other interesting sets of speakers.  When you get ready for some critical listening and reviews, I'd love to hear your comparisons.



Cacophonix

Re: SSR/Dayton RS180
« Reply #10 on: 17 Jul 2007, 05:55 pm »
 :oops: :oops: :oops:

I found out that one of the woofers was wired incorrectly. The terminals on the woofer was not marked, and i had reversed the connection. The other woofer was connected correctly. Rick had mentioned that the side with red dot on the magnet denotes the + side. Dunno why scanspeak doesn't mark it on the terminals like most other driver manufacturers! :duh:

Now everything snaps into place, and i don't feel the need for a center channel at all!  :thumb:
I got exactly what i was looking for before starting on this project - very good imaging with strong bass that removes the need for a center channel and subwoofer.