[ZLS]

I am going to make a statement that may be viewed as controversial.  IMHO the more power you feed the Hemptone Driver Omega speakers the better that they sound.  I am running a rebuilt Harmon Kardon Citation II that puts out 50-60 watts in push-pull using the KT88 tube(It runs about 18 watts into pure class A).  The Dipole XRS's I own never sounded better! 
    I would ask/urge other HempTone Omega to experiment with more powerful amps and report their experiences back. 
    I do not know why this is, I just know what my ears tell me.

[Vinnie R.]

I am going to make a statement that may be viewed as controversial.  IMHO the more power you feed the Hemptone Driver Omega speakers the better that they sound.  I am running a rebuilt Harmon Kardon Citation II that puts out 50-60 watts in push-pull using the KT88 tube(It runs about 18 watts into pure class A).  The Dipole XRS's I own never sounded better! 
    I would ask/urge other HempTone Omega to experiment with more powerful amps and report their experiences back. 
    I do not know why this is, I just know what my ears tell me.

All,

ZLS makes a very good point and hopefully Louis will chime in soon to confirm this.  Unlike the older Omega speakers with the Fostex drivers, I have also concluded that the newer Hemptone drivers that Louis is now using really do like amps with more power.  Flea-powered amps don't seem to do the trick it with these drivers.  While the sensitivity of the newer Hemp-based Omega speakers are very similar to that of the older, discontinued Fostex-based speakers, the Hemp drivers just sound a lot better with more powerful amps (most obvious improvement with more power is fuller bass and lower mids)... even at lower volumes. 

Those Hemp drivers also take more power and like it... they can be played a lot louder than the Fostex drivers without breaking up (as long as your amp doesn't break up first!). 

Again, just my observations.

Vinnie

[budbrew]

What about a 30 watt DNM-based SS amp, the s30 from Resolution Audio (mated to their Opus 21 cdp)? Does this constitute "more power" for the Omega hemp drivers? In practice, it behaves and sounds more like a lower watt tube amp. But as I've discovered it loves full range driver speakers and shows its best through them.

[schotter]

Those Hemp drivers also take more power and like it...[/quote]

So you would not recommend low powered SET amps like FI X or Decware Zen Triode with the XRS?

[gbeard]

Hi all,

It has also been my experience that the Hemps like more power than the older Fostex models. Although my Supers are using the "original" hemp driver (still sound fab though  ) and not the one currently shipped, my old Fi-X integrated could not drive them well enough for all uses. My Larry Moore 300B and my modded Eico HF-86 sound great and can really pump out the jams. Since I have not driven them with more than 14 tube watts, I cannot dispute that they may in fact enjoy (up to a point, i suppose) even more wattage depending on the room, music and listening habits.

Cheers!

[jrebman]

Caveat: I have never had the hemp drivers but every one of my single driver speakers -- Horn Shoppe Horns, Abbys, an Omega Revolutions just did better when fed more power.  The biggest tube amp I drove the Horns and Abbys with was a Golden Tube Audio SE-40 -- 40 single-ended 6L6, and both the Abbys and Revolutions loved the Signature 70s -- especially the Revolutions.

One theory for why the hemp drivers and the Visaton B200 in the Revolutions like higher power is that they all have underhung voice coils and these just seem to like more current than the Fostex speakers did, and low power SET amps just don't have a lot of current drive.  If you can find a good condition Golden Tube Audio SE-40 (especially one with Sonic Craft mods) I'm sure you will like what they do for the XRSs.  3 paralleled 6l6s driven by a 6SN7 -- very nice... IMO.

-- Jim

[Louis O]

 Hi ZLS, Vinnie, Gary and Jim,

Many thank for the great posts and I'm confirming what you are saying.
The hemps and the B200 both excel with a bit more power. I do have to say I had not the best synergy with the low power flea watt amps in tests here. This was run with passive pre amps. With active pre in front them it is better.

The term high powered is relative. Most people would think 100 watt or higher, but not the case here. I have had great sound with higher-powered SETs and all PP amps. My Dynakit 17 watt PP EL-84 sounds terrific as does the Sig 30. No worry at all with the DNM. A 9-watt 300B works and I’ll be getting an 807 soon. Single ended EL-34, KT88 etc. works too.

I recently did a test with the Sig 30 as the amp and an Arcam CDP. I played a set of Grande 6s with the Fostex FE167E and a/b the Hemp XRSs. The Fostex on paper has higher SPL. I found that the XRS played louder without any changes in volume as compared to the G6s. Both speakers impedances are similar and do not dip much below 7 ohms, but the G6s will work with 2A3s.

Thanks,
Louis

[schotter]

my old Fi-X integrated could not drive them well enough for all uses. My Larry Moore 300B and my modded Eico HF-86 sound great and can really pump out the jams.

This is interesting. I was looking at low powered SETs so far (it's probably design idea and appearance I like). But the deeper I dig the more I realize I have to let my ears decide...for now and to keep things simple (and cheap) I played with resistors (EQ approach) a bit and Roger from Music Reference was of great help. The results are really astonishing with my 20/20 Op amp, although I am still working on the right bass balance. There is only so much you can do with an integrated. Bottom line is that I have to listen to a few options before I even consider a new amp. After swapping the Fostex and hemps back and forth and playing with other speakers my mission is still to keep the XRS.

[lcrim]

I have been using the Compact Hemps which have the 8" driver since early January.  I wanted to comment that I use a flea powered SET amp, the original Music Reference EM7 conservatively rated by Roger Modjeski @ 2.5 Watts per.  I run with a factory modded Eastern Electric preamp which has a lowered gain rating to 18 dB.  I listen to vinyl primarily and the Jolida JD-9 has a gain of 85 dB which may be a bit optimistic.  I do use a powered sub and have tried removing it a few times but always turn it back on.  I also have an unmodded SB3 which therefore has a 2 volt output.  My gain knob tends to get set to 11-12 oclock during serious listening.  I honestly don't believe that the dynamics or inner detail is missing.  As a matter of fact, I am reticent about trying more power because there is more than enough as is.  The distance to the primary listening position is only 8 ft in a medium smallish room w/ a cathedral ceiling. 
Not to nay say but with the proper gain structure in your system, I think the 8" driver is plenty efficient IME. 
Now, the 4.5" driver in the XRS is a slightly different animal.  Originally I was interested in the XRS because of its greater bass extension.  But I am pleased with where I ended up.  I have measured 75 to 95 dB peaks and even with a heavily sound proofed room, I feel like I am stretching my town home's neighbor's patience at times. (say that fast a few times) 

[schotter]

wow. Thanks for sharing some good real world experience. A lot of very helpful recommendations here. I am scrolling down and realizing only now that I have overread a good amount of advice (and questions). Icrim, I actually was eyeing the EM7 for a while. The XRS has indeed considerable bass extension. I did use the box EQ and played with a couple of different resistors to hit the right spot, with Rogers patient guidance. After coming quite close I figured I would want to lose the box, input chooser and all to simplify things and just made all parts and my interconnects one component. Looks a bit funny but does the same trick sonically. Still in my research phase (trying to forget the system and just listen), I am not yet sure if it does what I expected. It's tricky...
JLM, interesting summary about the different tube types. Even though there will be a lot of exceptions and differing amp designs will play a role, this is the sort of thing I was after. Is there a distinction between 'warm' and 'romantic'? Hearing a bit more about different tube types would be great. 'Warm rock'..hehe, sounds like a filthy habit...but maybe it's not too far off. A lot of the rock music I hear is inherently not warm. Probably rather post punk influenced, some probably not that well recorded and some deliberately 'different'. Balancing this with a bit of warmth might be good. Even though this example is a bit flawed, it might ilustrate my urge: BBQ on my roof, my old NAD and a playstation (as CDP) rocking the crap out of my converted narrow baffle super 3s (formerly known as Minuets). From electro grooves to Motorhead...overall more than satisfying. The sound is dry and powerful and the guitars are 'there'. Lots of pints and lamb chops later we descend into my apartment and throw a couple of soul LPs onto my gucci-ed out zen system and keep turning down the volume...thinness, bordering on shrillness. Obviously, next days' hungover test with the NAD/Minuets/PS in my living room does NOT reveal its overall superiority. Nor does swapping the drivers back to Fostex. It indeed does rock at high volumes from the distance in open air and beer in my hand (which probably also plays a huge role in the experience) but here, I am entirely missing the speed, directness, depth, imaging and a sense of magic which my Shigaraki/XRS has in spades when I sit close and listen to...let's say Boccherinis String Quintet. Now, I guess what I am looking for is this magic, this insight 'into' the music combined with direct and dry lower mid punch, the sense that air is being moved. A 'directness' and immediacy with body.
Thanks again for all the good advice, now I will read again carefully.

[DaveC113]

I am going to make a statement that may be viewed as controversial.  IMHO the more power you feed the Hemptone Driver Omega speakers the better that they sound.  I am running a rebuilt Harmon Kardon Citation II that puts out 50-60 watts in push-pull using the KT88 tube(It runs about 18 watts into pure class A).  The Dipole XRS's I own never sounded better! 
    I would ask/urge other HempTone Omega to experiment with more powerful amps and report their experiences back. 
    I do not know why this is, I just know what my ears tell me.

I am a new XRS owner currently going through break-in... using a Trends T-amp and my old Adcom GFP-565 Preamp (for now). When I'm not around I switch from "lab" to "regular" outputs, engage the tone controls and turn the bass all the way up and the treble all the way down, crank it up and quickly leave the room  . I have also tried using my old Adcom GFA-5500 for break in and surprisingly enough the little T-amp is giving the speakers about %95 of what they can handle as far as I can tell. I also used the Adcom amp during regular listening, that lasted about 2-3 minutes before it was banished. The Trends did a surprisingly good job driving my Mirage 3-way bipolar towers as well. Not necessarily better than the Adcom in this application, just different. 

Anyhow, I have to say the XRS are awesome speakers. I ordered them on faith, and got more than I expected. They are playing with a 10" sealed Adire xbl^2 sub with a plate amp (Interestingly enough, exactly the same plate amp that Zu is using on their new triangular speakers). This seems to be a great combo and I'm enjoying hearing the XRSs getting better and better. 

I will eventually try an integrated tube amp so I can get rid of the Adcom pre and see for myself how tubes work with the XRS. Thanks for everyone's input on this subject!

Dave 
 

[rajacat]

I'm experimenting with the Trends 10.1 too. I was impressed enough with one that I purchased one more and now I'm using them in a bi-amp configuration to power Omega Hemp bi/dipoles. I setup the Trends with a Mapletree tube Line 3A preamp, a Bolder SB3, Mhdt Constantine DAC and an ACI Titan sub. I must say that the sound quality is excellent with superb detail and depth/width of the soundstage. There is a long thread on the Trends @ http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=87490. I've ordered some Obbligato paper-in-oil capacitors which have received stellar reviews from others and which are reputed form an excellent synergy with the little Trends. They are cheap too $5.50 each. One problem tho is that they are too large to fit in the enclosure so must be mounted externally but no problem for me because if they are as good as I think they will be I'll build a larger enclosure. I've found that the Trends is very sensitive to cables and other pieces of the audio chain so that it takes some tweaking to bring out the best. They also perform well with battery power.

So far the experiment is producing well. I plan to do other mods besides the input cap replacement. I'll keep you posted.

Raj

[DaveC113]

I've ordered some Obbligato paper-in-oil capacitors which have received stellar reviews from others and which are reputed form an excellent synergy with the little Trends. They are cheap too $5.50 each. One problem tho is that they are too large to fit in the enclosure so must be mounted externally but no problem for me because if they are as good as I think they will be I'll build a larger enclosure.

So far the experiment is producing well. I plan to do other mods besides the input cap replacement. I'll keep you posted.

Raj

Hi Raj,

Did you get the 2 uF caps with the leads on one end? After reading (most) of that thread it sounds like the Obbligatos might work well with the Omegas. I am very interested to hear how you like them.

My Trends has been on constantly for a while, and when I came home yesterday it was dead. I think its the ps, I'll look at it today. I posted a question on the thread you linked to, but I'll likely bring my Optima deep cell home from the garage today and give that a shot.

Also, I got some bulk Anti-Cable speaker cable, and my initial impressions are very good. I prefer it to the 20g magnet wire and a couple of cat5 cables I have. This wire does not seem to "dull" the sound like many have noticed happens with larger gauge magwire. I am using the Adcom 5500 again, and it performs a lot better with the A-C than it did with the 20g wire. It still has a "hard" edge, and a more two dimensional upfront presentation... so hopefully the Trends will be up and at it again soon! 

Dave

[rajacat]

Hi Raj,

Did you get the 2 uF caps with the leads on one end? After reading (most) of that thread it sounds like the Obbligatos might work well with the Omegas. I am very interested to hear how you like them.

My Trends has been on constantly for a while, and when I came home yesterday it was dead. I think its the ps, I'll look at it today. I posted a question on the thread you linked to, but I'll likely bring my Optima deep cell home from the garage today and give that a shot.

Also, I got some bulk Anti-Cable speaker cable, and my initial impressions are very good. I prefer it to the 20g magnet wire and a couple of cat5 cables I have. This wire does not seem to "dull" the sound like many have noticed happens with larger gauge magwire. I am using the Adcom 5500 again, and it performs a lot better with the A-C than it did with the 20g wire. It still has a "hard" edge, and a more two dimensional upfront presentation... so hopefully the Trends will be up and at it again soon! 

Dave

Hi Dave,

I'm not sure if the 2uF Obbligatos have the leads on only one end. They should be here sometime this week. I'm also curious about the copper sheathed aluminum film 2.2uF a Obb. too It would be cool to rig up a device whereby different caps. could be interchanged without wielding a soldering iron.

I think that I might buy this battery power supply. http://www.audiomagus.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage_modern&product_id=56&category_id=27&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart
&Itemid=27

It seems like this would be a relatively simple, reasonably priced and elegant answer to the power supply question although I'm sure that there are cheaper solutions.

BTW did you purchase the Anti-cable magnet wire directly from Anti-Cable or did you purchase it from a bulk supplier such as http://www.surplussales.com/Wire-Cable/Wire6.html

I definitely think that the Mapletree preamp adds something positive to the mix. The most amazing aspect about the Trends is its detail retrieval and the 3D depth of the soundstage.

..Raj

ps. Maybe the little Trends deserves its own thread.

[DaveC113]

Raj,

I guess you could make the caps plug-in with some spade connectors temporarily, that would make testing easier.

I got a Calrad 4.1A SMPS power supply and charged up my Optima deep-cycle battery. They are both noticeably better than the stock ps, but only have subtle differences between the two. The battery has a slight edge in delivering a very "clean" sound, more precise bass and a slightly more stable soundstage. Again, this wasn't a night and day difference at all, but enough that I will keep the battery around. They both add more dynamics, weight and improved bass vs. the stock ps.

A poster on the diyaudio thread recommended using capacitors on the battery, and the audiomagus battery supply uses caps as well so that will be the next thing to try. I like the audiomagus solution, I will have to get one sometime. The 65 Amp Hour deep cycle can't stay in the living room for long, although it will probably only need a charge once a month   

I got the anti-cable from Speltz directly. A 32 ft piece of wire was $40, it just takes a few minutes to scrape the insulation off the ends. I am using bare wire with Mapleshade silver grease for terminations. I'd also like to try the Omega/Hudson wire sometime as well.

Dave

[rajacat]

Dave,

I did order the Audiomagus power supply and hopefully it will be here next week. It comes with a fairly high  quality DC power cord which will probably have positive influence on the sound quality. The PS also has two outputs which makes it very handy for me since I'm bi-amping.

The next tweak will be installing the Obbligatos. Since I'm using two amps I have to perform all my mods twice but I'll have one unit to compare to the other.

Check out the extensive mod just posted on diyaudio with some detailed photos. I noticed that he used copper tape shielding on the top and bottom of the base.

The sound quality of my setup seems to be improving  which might be due to the break-in that others have reported with this little amp.

Raj

[ikakenewa]

Has anyone heard the 38wpc Onix SP3?

A pretty inexpensive introduction to higher wpc tubage.

I have not heard it but am very curious.