OB2X vs O-3

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poseidonsvoice

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OB2X vs O-3
« on: 8 Jul 2007, 09:06 pm »
Hello all,

I had a fairly long conversation with Danny regarding the differences between these two designs. If y'all recall, I had written a short review of the OB-5's that I heard in Toronto with Denny's setup. I was mighty impressed, but unfortunately I can't afford the OB-5 nor the new OB-7s at this time. In addition, I would probably need a larger room. What follows below is a short summary of the differences between the O-3 and OB2X's whose crossovers are both designed by Danny. For the record, the OB2X original design is Al Wooley's of RAW acoustics.

The O-3's are an excellent overall ported 3 way omnidirectional speaker design. The drivers used in the O-3's include a pair of M-130's and the BG planar magnetic tweeter.  Danny said that at the audiofest, they were difficult to discern from the larger OB-7's except in larger rooms and with louder music such as heavy metal or large orchestral pieces. In addition they employ the BG planar magnetic tweeter which have a very quick transient response and can convey the leading edge of a cymbal quite well. The speaker would be best used with a subwoofer, but it has an advantage over Danny's other designs in that the low end can be tailored to the room by altering the capacitor stack. They image a lot like the OB-5 and OB-7's which is not surprising given that the off axis responses are very smooth and similar. In other words, the O-3's carry on the advantages of an MTM design like the OB-5's and OB-7's but at a much lower cost but with lower overall acoustic output. When you stand up and walk around the room , you don't notice any dropped frequencies like you would with a regular MT. The O-3's require plenty of room around them to play well, about 3 feet all around. This can be a pitfall in some rooms.

The OB2X's are an open baffle MT ported 3 way design. They employ the higher end M-130X drivers which apply an improved XBL2 magnet structure and phenomenal X max. In addition, they use Al's custom Aurum Cantus tweeter. This ribbon tweeter is different from the BG planar magnetic in that it doesn't emphasize the leading edge of a cymbal, but more the trailing edge of a cymbal. Different strokes for different folks. It's hard to make this tweeter to sound strident or hard. In addition, it requires a little more care in crossing over as it has slightly higher distortion below 2K. This isn't really much of an issue for Danny as he tries to utilize each driver in an optimum frequency area in order to optimize the off axis response and cross the drivers while they are still in *piston*. The distortion profile of the M-130X drivers is quite a bit lower than the M-130. Danny said that one M-130X was equivalent to a pair of M-130's. This pretty much means that the midrange clarity of this speaker design should rival the OB-5's and OB-7's. The vertical off axis response of the OB2X is not as smooth as the O-3 or OB-5/7 designs. However,the OB2X can be placed closer to the side walls of a given room compared to the O-3. This can be very advantageous in smaller rooms. But, if you want to do the get up and walk around test, you will notice that the OB2X is an MT design while the O-3 is omnidirectional (great vertical and horizontal off axis response). This may or may not matter to you. Again, different strokes for different folks. The midbass of the OB2X's should also have greater clarity than the O-3 due to the M130X driver. This speaker is easily crossed over to a subwoofer. The OB2X should  be able to handle greater amplifier power than the O-3's due to the XBL2 magnet structure. This should be okay as long as you don't fry the Aurum Cantus ribbon!

I hope this helps some of you who may be in the same/similar quandary as I am. If I was just a little richer, I would build the new OB-7's no doubt. In the meantime, it looks like the OB2X is the winner for me, although you can't go wrong with either design.

Best,
Anand.
« Last Edit: 2 Sep 2007, 09:56 am by poseidonsvoice »

IronForge

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Re: OB2X vs O-3
« Reply #1 on: 8 Jul 2007, 11:17 pm »
Thanks for sharing your comparison.  I am currently putting together a few OB2X kits.  Danny's M-130 driver gets a lot of praise, so an XBL^2 M-130 got my taste buds going.

poseidonsvoice

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Re: OB2X vs O-3
« Reply #2 on: 10 Jul 2007, 12:06 am »
When you are finished building the OB2X, please share your impressions and pics  aa

Best,
Anand.

Doublej

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Re: OB2X vs O-3
« Reply #3 on: 10 Jul 2007, 01:35 am »
Are you sure the O-3's are a sealed design? I thought they were dual ported.

Danny Richie

Re: OB2X vs O-3
« Reply #4 on: 10 Jul 2007, 03:26 am »
Yea, the O-3's are rear ported.

klh

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Re: OB2X vs O-3
« Reply #5 on: 16 Sep 2007, 07:39 pm »
Since one M130X has approximately the same output as two M-130's, is it reasonable to think the OB2X would have similar on axis output capability as the OB5? If that's true, then the only real differences are the OB-5 has a better vertical off axis response, the BG planar can be crossed over lower (which results in the BG planar accentuating the leading edge of a cymbal as opposed to Al's custom ribbon accentuating the trailing edge) and the OB2X costs significantly less. Is that a fair assessment?

If that's true, do you think the OB2X would work as a center channel if the enclosure was shorter but deeper (to keep the same internal volume) and placed under a front projector screen? Since you're stating the vertical off axis response isn't as good as the O-3, I'm a bit concerned. Al has said it would be fine, but then again he has a vested interest in selling his product. I don't doubt his sincerity, but at the same time, his opinion is bound to be at least a little biased.

I really like the idea of using the OB2Xs as surrounds (especially since they can be placed a bit closer to the walls). Since I have a dedicated HT, the vertical off axis response will only matter for the CC... an interesting idea is to have a shorter OB2X with a subtle backwards slant to the front baffle. The top part of the lower enclosure would have the same depth as the already designed box (6"???) and be perpendicular to the front baffle. The bottom part of the enclosure would go as far back as necessary to keep the internal volume the same. This way, the enclosure would tilt front to back on the front and back to front on the back so from the side it would sort of look like a trapezoid. This would not only look good but also add stability. Three of them could then be used up front as LCRs (which would allow proper separation between each of the three speakers regardless of the width of the screen. In this case the vertical off axis response would be a non-issue from the seated positions (one row) and, since the regular version of the OB2X would be used as a surround, the theater would have essentially the same speakers all the way around. Add a quality sub to the mix and that would be one hell of a home theater... in my case I have a dual Ascendant Audio 18" Avalanche infinite baffle subwoofer. The only problem is I've just made a simple enclosure much more difficult to fabricate :duh:. Oh well, that's part of the fun :D.

An easier way to go would be to have OB3Xs for L and R duty and a shorter "stubby" OB2X for center duty that has all perpendicular/parallel sides. One could make it so the stubby OB2X had the same depth as the OB3X and then have a false bottom within the enclosure to keep the volume the same as the regular OB2X. Obviously the trade off here is to accept the less than ideal vertical off axis response of the center channel and that the L and R speakers would be different than the other five. One other issue is the spacing between the mains would be a bit greater than ideal since the screen is so wide.

Either way the look would be aesthetically pleasing and the sound would be top notch. I guess it's just a matter of how unique one wants to be and how much work he's will to do.

Oh, one extra question regarding the OB2X as a surround. I presume one needs to careful not to be too far off axis to avoid being in the null to the side. That might be an issue depending on how close the seated position is to the wall. Is that correct?
« Last Edit: 16 Sep 2007, 08:55 pm by klh »

klh

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Re: OB2X vs O-3
« Reply #6 on: 16 Sep 2007, 08:49 pm »
Danny... I hope you don't mind me going on about the OB2X and OB3X on your forum. I figured it's OK since you designed them.

Danny Richie

Re: OB2X vs O-3
« Reply #7 on: 17 Sep 2007, 03:14 am »
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Since one M130X has approximately the same output as two M-130's,


No it doesn't.

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is it reasonable to think the OB2X would have similar on axis output capability as the OB5?

Not at all. The OB2X has 87db sensitivity while the OB-5 is at 90.5db.

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do you think the OB2X would work as a center channel if the enclosure was shorter but deeper (to keep the same internal volume) and placed under a front projector screen?


Yea, it would work great.

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Since you're stating the vertical off axis response isn't as good as the O-3, I'm a bit concerned.


That is not really fair. The O-3 is an omni directional design. Its off axis response is better that just about any speaker. That doesn't mean that the off axis response of the OB2X is not good. It is very good.

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Al has said it would be fine,


He is right, the off axis response is fine. You can see it posted on his site.

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but then again he has a vested interest in selling his product.

Hey so do I. That model uses my woofers and those Sonicaps come from me as well. So I hope he sells tons of them.

Some of the rest of your post regarding odd shaped cabinets I really didn't follow.

Quote
Oh, one extra question regarding the OB2X as a surround. I presume one needs to careful not to be too far off axis to avoid being in the null to the side. That might be an issue depending on how close the seated position is to the wall. Is that correct?

This is true with any dipole design.

klh

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Re: OB2X vs O-3
« Reply #8 on: 17 Sep 2007, 03:24 am »
Thanks Danny.