What makes a great audio system

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James Tanner

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What makes a great audio system
« on: 5 Jul 2007, 12:50 pm »
Hi All,

Based on some of the discussions on the new Bryston CD Player I thought it might be interesting to get opinions on what makes an audio system 'great'.

Input welcome.

james

Levi

Re: What makes a great audio system
« Reply #1 on: 5 Jul 2007, 01:03 pm »
We all have different opinions and beliefs about audio systems.  What makes one satisfied and happy may not be the same for the other.  To me a great audio system is something that makes me feel happy everytime I see it or listen to it.  :thumb:

Cheers,
Levi

mcullinan

Re: What makes a great audio system
« Reply #2 on: 5 Jul 2007, 01:37 pm »
A great audio system makes you sit and listen in awe at the beauty of music.
 aa
Mike

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Re: What makes a great audio system
« Reply #3 on: 5 Jul 2007, 02:29 pm »
Quote
great audio system

For me that it sounds real and pure.

James Tanner

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Re: What makes a great audio system
« Reply #4 on: 5 Jul 2007, 03:26 pm »
We all have different opinions and beliefs about audio systems.  What makes one satisfied and happy may not be the same for the other.  To me a great audio system is something that makes me feel happy everytime I see it or listen to it.  :thumb:

Cheers,
Levi

So is there an ABSOLUTE sound we can compare our system to or is it up to each individual to decide what is good sound?

james

bpape

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Re: What makes a great audio system
« Reply #5 on: 5 Jul 2007, 03:29 pm »
I think it's a bit of both.  One can always compare to the live event as a reference - providing the people doing the recording faithfully capture that event.

Bryan

zybar

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Re: What makes a great audio system
« Reply #6 on: 5 Jul 2007, 03:46 pm »
So is there an ABSOLUTE sound we can compare our system to or is it up to each individual to decide what is good sound?

james


I don't think there is an absolute sound - this hobby truly is about the individual.

Here is an example of what I mean:

I have sat and listened to systems that I thought were incredible, yet when my buddy sits in the same exact seat, listening to the same song, he shrugs his shoulders and says it doesn't do it for him...that tells you all you need to know about this hobby.

George

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Re: What makes a great audio system
« Reply #7 on: 5 Jul 2007, 03:46 pm »
Quote
So is there an ABSOLUTE sound we can compare our system to or is it up to each individual to decide what is good sound?

Maybe a simple or hard to understand answer but mine ABSOLUTE sound is the sound that I like the most.
So mine ABSOLUTE sound may/can come with different soundsystems.

Once I heard a Mark Levinson sound system that sounded that good that it looks liked the singer was really there, but I couldn't afford it because it costed over 100.000 euro (= 150.000 CA dollars).

Now I have a Bryston system and I have the same experience with it. So I find it hard to anwer if there is an ABSOLUTE sound.

rob80b

Re: What makes a great audio system
« Reply #8 on: 5 Jul 2007, 03:49 pm »
We all have different priorities, I’m happy listening to my clock radio in the morning, a mediocre system in the car and budget speakers off the computer in my shop. Because I have no expectations sound wise I normally enjoy the music.
When it comes to the a dedicated audio system my priorities change, probably like many here, I want my system to recreate the original venue, or at least pass on the original recording without alterations.
Adding colorations, warm, dark, cool, is not something I value, a system being more musical is also another term thrown around.
Yes we can put together a system that is always enjoyable, and, is usually the goal of the basic consumer. For me that defeats the purpose of an audiophile system, as I stated I get my most enjoyment out of knowing my chosen components are passing on an unaltered signal. When a recording is well produced and engineered it will come through.

An audio system takes on another value also, one in terms of pride of ownership, some put together a system to hopefully impress their friends. I like mine to be well engineered and reliable, knowing that if a recording seems different it’s probably me and not the equipment; my system becomes my reference showing off warts and all.
What is interesting that outside the audiophile community I can probably count off less than a handful of friends and acquaintances, over the last 40 years I’ve been into this hobby, who have any interest at all in what equipment is being used as a transducer of the music they are listening to.

Bob Reynolds

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Re: What makes a great audio system
« Reply #9 on: 5 Jul 2007, 04:02 pm »
According to the loudspeaker "listening" research done by Floyd Toole and Sean Olive, there is a solid consensus on what is considered good sound. Preferences are not as individualized as many like to think. So the notion of an absolute sound is probably statistically valid. But, of course, there will always be outliers.

A great audio system for me is one that encourages listening for extended periods of time.

rob80b

Re: What makes a great audio system
« Reply #10 on: 5 Jul 2007, 04:47 pm »
According to the loudspeaker "listening" research done by Floyd Toole and Sean Olive, there is a solid consensus on what is considered good sound. Preferences are not as individualized as many like to think. So the notion of an absolute sound is probably statistically valid. But, of course, there will always be outliers.

A great audio system for me is one that encourages listening for extended periods of time.


Now that may be true, but right now I’m in my shop listening to “Espace Musique” on Radio Can online through a 10 year old  PC and small Altec Lansing speakers.
I enjoy listening to the music all day through this minimal setup, which costs about as much as a low-end interconnect, but I do not think I consider it a great audio system.

James Tanner

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Re: What makes a great audio system
« Reply #11 on: 5 Jul 2007, 05:01 pm »
Also something to throw into the mix is that our impressions of what makes a great system changes over time 

I remember being 18 years old and hearing a pair of Klipsch corner horns and thinking I had died and gone to heaven. Then a year later I heard Joan Baez singing on a pair of Dalhquist DQ10's and though the corner horns were really very coloured after all.

james



rob80b

Re: What makes a great audio system
« Reply #12 on: 5 Jul 2007, 06:20 pm »
Also something to throw into the mix is that our impressions of what makes a great system changes over time 

I remember being 18 years old and hearing a pair of Klipsch corner horns and thinking I had died and gone to heaven. Then a year later I heard Joan Baez singing on a pair of Dalhquist DQ10's and though the corner horns were really very coloured after all.

james




Which hits the nail on the head, we can all enjoy music on what we consider technically inferior equipment, the brain’s a wonderful device for making compromises.
Sometimes this hobby is almost considered an art-forum, but in search of the holy grail or those of us are technically inclined the electronics and the reproduction of the original signal is our main goal in making a great audio system, and comes down more to science than art.
I imagine doing Electro-Acoustic music and recording for about thirty years creates a specific personal bias when it comes to choosing an audio system, if I wasn’t concerned more about the technical purity of the reproduced signal but just the enjoyment factor ones preferences would be very different. 
Bryston has served me well over the years and one only has to go over the many reviews to find the biggest complaint of their products is the lack of character, which for me is the best compliment of all when it comes to tools for audio reproduction.   

Robert

JLM

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Re: What makes a great audio system
« Reply #13 on: 5 Jul 2007, 06:40 pm »
Some of what an audio system great is in what it doesn't do.  Sins of omission are more easily forgiven.  A speaker that performs 40 - 16,000 Hz well is far better than one that performs 20 - 20,000 Hz poorly.  An amp that does 10 watts well is far better than one that can provide 100 watts poorly.  Many otherwise wonderful pieces fail when they try too hard to push the limits of technology, materials science, or the laws of physics.

Obviously synergy (between pieces, and between the speakers and room) is important.  Active loudspeakers (like the acclaimed PMC AML-1) can be the classic audio example.

IMO the gold standard for what makes an audio system great is accurate reproduction of live, unamplified music.  I've read of rare instances of reviewers daring to do a live A/B test between an audio system and a live, unamplified performance.  The closest I've found is where someone thought it was live from the next room.

boead

Re: What makes a great audio system
« Reply #14 on: 5 Jul 2007, 06:41 pm »

Based on some of the discussions on the new Bryston CD Player I thought it might be interesting to get opinions on what makes an audio system 'great'.


The music.

James Tanner

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Re: What makes a great audio system
« Reply #15 on: 5 Jul 2007, 07:02 pm »
I would say in my case as I became more involved in the recording end of the business it really gave me some insights into what the live sound vs recorded sound vs home playback issues were.

I remember my first studio experience in Toronto and Jack Renner from Telarc was recording Oscar Peterson and Ray Brown. Jack asked me to bring down some amplifiers and I said yes as long as I could sit in. It was a great experience as I could go out into the recording room and listen to Oscar and Ray live at 10 feet away and then back into the control room and listen to the same music over the monitoring system. Then 1 week later I had the CD to play at home.

james


Harmon

Re: What makes a great audio system
« Reply #16 on: 5 Jul 2007, 07:32 pm »
To me a reference system should be as close as possible to the sound of the live musical event. It's as if the listener were sitting in front of the musical performers.

Midnite Mick

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Re: What makes a great audio system
« Reply #17 on: 5 Jul 2007, 07:38 pm »
Simple....conveying of emotion.

Thanks,
Mike

James Tanner

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Re: What makes a great audio system
« Reply #18 on: 5 Jul 2007, 07:58 pm »
Simple....conveying of emotion.

Thanks,
Mike

Hi Mike,

OK but would you not say that a persons 'expectation' of what is great sound will influence what makes the hairs on the back of there necks stand up and gives them an emotional 'rush'.

james
« Last Edit: 5 Jul 2007, 08:09 pm by James Tanner »

Daygloworange

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Re: What makes a great audio system
« Reply #19 on: 5 Jul 2007, 08:10 pm »
So is there an ABSOLUTE sound we can compare our system to or is it up to each individual to decide what is good sound?

james


I don't think there is an absolute sound - this hobby truly is about the individual.

Here is an example of what I mean:

I have sat and listened to systems that I thought were incredible, yet when my buddy sits in the same exact seat, listening to the same song, he shrugs his shoulders and says it doesn't do it for him...that tells you all you need to know about this hobby.

George

I have had very similar experiences as I have been meeting, and hanging out with more audio enthusiasts, much to my surprise. There is little consensus.

According to the loudspeaker "listening" research done by Floyd Toole and Sean Olive, there is a solid consensus on what is considered good sound. Preferences are not as individualized as many like to think. So the notion of an absolute sound is probably statistically valid. But, of course, there will always be outliers.

A great audio system for me is one that encourages listening for extended periods of time.


There was a similar study done by the NRC in Canada in regards to loudspeakers, the listening group was very varied, from people who had very little interest in audio, to audiophile types. There was much agreement between which were considered better sounding speakers.
But I think, if the group were exclusively "audiophiles", then you would start to see people become increasingly picky and particular. I think in that context, the gap would widen.

Personally, I want ruler flat frequency response, low distortion, high resolution, and very good dynamics. Basically, an electronically invisible system. I'm looking for faithfullness to what's been recorded. I don't want any sugar coating.

I'm guessing, that a lot of people would be inclined to describe that as a cold, un-emotive, analytical, lifeless system. But, that's what I'm looking for.

Cheers