Another question for original De Capo owners re: upgrade

Jonathan · « **on:** 19 Aug 2003, 10:34 pm »

Hi,

I am still kind of obsessing over the idea of doing the tweeter upgrade to my De Capos, but I keep coming back to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" axiom. I just have not heard anything that seems to be obviously wrong with the high end performance in my speakers, thus I'm not inclined to change them, even if the 'upgrade' is only $170..

I was wondering why others have not done the upgrade.

Jon

brucegel · « **Reply #1 on:** 20 Aug 2003, 02:44 am »

There are very few bandwagons I have taken rides on in my life (for example that the decapos are not a complete speaker without a sub).Long story short you will be very satisfied with the new tweet because the original while good wasn't as smooth and transparent as the new iteration.But don't take my word for it ...try to listen to the new one and if it's not possible to do that then lets see what others have to say.

cyounkman · « **Reply #2 on:** 20 Aug 2003, 02:07 pm »

I must have promised several times already that I'll take my old DCs into my dealer and compare to the i's. Why haven't I done this? No excuse. I beg Your Grace's indulgence. I will report back when it happens.

Also on the 'I-have vague-intentions-of-doing-this-but-no-guarantees' agenda: I'm supposed to take my DC's up to another dealer and hear them with the GamuT D200 and C2-R; except he no longer has them in the shop. But he does have a VTL 5.5 and ST-85, and I think a 100w ss amp from Accustic Arts in Germany.

Also, on the 'I-talked-about-this-once-but-it-will-never-happen' agenda: At my last listening party I threatened to bring my DC's over to hear in this guy's system: Bel Canto SET40's, nice Michelle tt, Herron pre, etc.

Oh. For what it's worth, I do hear high-frequency roughness in my system. I have determined that it is not my cd player (I sort of bought my way out of that problem--not recommended if you're on a budget), I've played with cables; I've heard my amp with other speakers, but I haven't heard other amps in my system. I remember hearing artifacts of the high-frequency prominence in the other systems I heard my DCs in before I bought them, but in my system with no pre-amp, a very clean amp (perhaps too much so), no crossover: the things that were hinted at before are just more audible.

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #3 on:** 20 Aug 2003, 08:47 pm »

OK, so what's your amp? I hear no treble hardeness in the MM De Capo I with my tube amps.

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #4 on:** 20 Aug 2003, 11:58 pm »

Quote

(for example that the decapos are not a complete speaker without a sub).

This depends on what type of music you listen to. For those who listen to jazz, rock, folk, and chamber, it covers 90-95% of the frequencies you need- so I'd say it's complete.

Unfortunately, I listen to a lot of big symphonic pieces with some serious sub 40hz bass, so for this music, I would say it isn't a complete speaker.

Jonathan · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 Aug 2003, 01:41 am »

Quote from: mcrespo71

OK, so what's your amp? I hear no treble hardeness in the MM De Capo I with my tube amps.

When talking about treble hardness, I think Chris was referring to his older De Capos, which are not the "i" version. The complaint about hardness in the treble is usually directed at the older models.

Paul L · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 Aug 2003, 03:06 am »

I heard no roughness from my former de capos, may be my ears are more forgiving.

cyounkman · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 Aug 2003, 01:36 pm »

I was talking about the earlier De Capos.

For whatever reason, I am very sensitive to all sorts of bad tweeter behaviour. This is not some golden ear thing, it is a pain in the ass. I am constantly bothered by high-frequency tizz in various systems and/or recordings. Whenever I go to the dentist, he's surprised that I can 'hear' the sonic scaler/torture device that he insists on shoving in my mouth. (I keep asking him what frequency it is, but he doesn't know. He says generally only kids can hear it. Anyway, it's excruciating. I honestly prefer drilling. Does anyone else have this problem?)

Anyway, I'm sure it's partly because of the rest of my system. None of it is forgiving at all, there are no tubes, the current amp is probably a little on the lean'n'mean side. But there's definitely something there. I've had musician friends tell me something sounds 'different' about strings (and wasn't I glad to hear that!); and an arranger/composer who does his own studio work said heard a slight lift around 2-3khz. As a professional cellist who works with studio equipment all the time, his ability to hear in terms of [actual numeric] frequency response is much more developed than mine.

Who knows, though. Maybe I got a slightly out-of-spec tweeter? If I ever take mine into the dealer to compare with his Pro/i's hopefully I'll get some kind of answer.

Zanth · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 Aug 2003, 03:54 pm »

I too have noticed the high frequency shrills of the older model. I listed via a VPI Scout and through Hovland PP amp and an ASL 300b. The 300b had plenty of power for the De capos and controled the highs more than the Hovland. I was told that if I felt the highs were still etched, I should look into an 845 tube based player like the Layla which is said to be a bit soft on top and would pair well. If the I version takes care of the highs even with a 300b amp...I'm all over it.

brucegel · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Aug 2003, 01:24 am »

Chris, stop fooling around with all that solid state stuff and get some tube gear in your house already! (I exaggerate a little).But seriously I think the decapo i's really shine with tube gear and also remember that the speaker isn't the champion of specs that others are which is why your solid state gear might be exposing that 2-3k bump in the tweet.What the decaps are is possibly the most time alligned speaker ever made in a two way design.And this is why it has that you are there quality that makes other speakers just hi-fi by comparison.

brucegel · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 Aug 2003, 01:45 am »

The decapos dont do the low frequency thing well and we all know that but just as chris can't stand high frequency tizz I can't stand bass that isn't 100% integrated with the speakers in the same cabinet.I don't know why this type of thing bothers me but sattelites even stereo configured and passive or active crosses don't cut it for me.I think the belief that bass is non directional is misdirected.I have heard wonderful three way and four ways that get the bass right but they cost 5 to 10 times the decaps and they don't sound better in the mids and highs as the decaps so if thats not the definition of diminished returns I don't know what is.I love deep bass but I don't love it so much that I have to have it in a way I am not 100% crazy for.I hope that sheds a little light on why I think the decaps are complete for what they are regardless of what they cannot do.