Cryogenic Freezing

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John Chapman

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Cryogenic Freezing
« on: 19 Aug 2003, 06:20 pm »
Hello!

I know this is a bit towards the fringe.... I have had several customers Cryo treat whole pre-amps and report good results. I am curious about it myself but have no hands on experience with it yet. Many of the wire guys also report good results with treatment. Despite the Sci-Fi sound it has when you say it there is some science in there. It is used to treat cutting tools and machine parts (racecars, etc). Adds a few yards to golf balls too according to the fellow I spoke with! It does have an effect on the structure in metals (and other materials) and I have not heard anyone report 'bad' results from cryo treating audio gear.  

I have finally located a local source for cryo treatment and will soon offer it as an option. Prelim pricing looks like about $150.00 to do a whole pre-amp and about $30.00 a pair for just trannies. I may explore just doing the parts (switches, wire, RCA jacks, etc) as this will cut down on the whole preamp price. It is based on weight and so doing the case and all leads to paying for some weight that you don't really want to treat.

Whatd'ya guys think of this stuff.....


Thansk!

John Chapman
www.bentaudio.com

JoshK

Cryogenic Freezing
« Reply #1 on: 19 Aug 2003, 08:19 pm »
Cryo treating does seem to have a real effect from what I have heard.  I don't know that much about it but I have heard that there are varying ways of doing it and not all are equal.  

The most interesting thing would be to see if cyro treating the copper trannies takes them to within reach of the silver trannies for less $$. Of course this is wishful thinking.  Of course if it has that positive of a result then cryo treating the silvers would be even more interesting to compare.

jackman

Cryogenic Freezing
« Reply #2 on: 19 Aug 2003, 08:25 pm »
I am not a big believer in Cryo treatments, but if they work, do you envision a "Ted Williams" line of preamps?  If so, will they have removeable power cords in memory of Ted's head which was removed froom his body?  Maybe the buttons will be shaped like the end of a baseball bat!  At least there would be no problems with static electricity (I get sparked every time I adjust the knobs on my preamp!)!   :o

Just a suggestion.... :?


Jman

John Chapman

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Cryogenic Freezing
« Reply #3 on: 19 Aug 2003, 11:46 pm »
Hello!

JoshK,

I keep hearing from folks I respect that it does have an effect and that got me interested. My first reaction was it was a bunch of bull. Once I dug into it a bit and realized that there is widespread use in 'normal' types of applications I was even more interested.

jackman,

I had to search to find out just what the Ted Williams reference was all about - I missed that on the news... That is the side of cryo that definitely does not help to sway skeptics! $16000.00 plane ticket for his body caught my eye as well - Guess they had to buy the whole passenger cabin because folks did not want to sit beside him. Can't blame them. I just finished a new enclosure design so I'll have to wait for the next rev to do the 'TW" version.

Thansk!

John

JACK WILLIAMS

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Cryogenic Freezing
« Reply #4 on: 23 Aug 2003, 08:38 pm »
John,

I have had some personal experience with cyro treating vaccum tubes. The GE 5751 JG in particular. The freezing was done by your fellow Canadian over at Pearl. The benifit was that the tube sounded much smoother, quieter, not as bright and just sounded nice. Like one of the other members has said there are many different ways of freezing and of course some are better than others. The process has been around a long time and has proven results in the engineering fields both mechanically, metalurgically and electrically. Therefore, it is not voodo but the results are only as good as the cryo methods that are used.

John Chapman

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Cryogenic Freezing
« Reply #5 on: 24 Aug 2003, 12:06 am »
Hello!

Tubes would be great to play with freezing - thay are light and the cryo guys seem to charge by the pound! A fellow was kind enough to send along this link:

http://www.cryotweaks.com/index.shtml


Neat site and might be a source for cryo for gear folks already have. The pricing looks similar to the pricing I have gotten locally - which is a drag as I was hopeing to find a really cheap price!

I may try and get a batch of stuff done in the next week or two.

Many Thanks!

John

Thomas Turk

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crogenics with CDs
« Reply #6 on: 14 Oct 2003, 04:00 pm »
Talking of cryo, here is a tip for all of u playing CDs, and having upgraded your pre, why not upgrade your CDs???

If you dont yet know about it, here is how to cryo-treat a CD and bring it  up to LP 'lack of harshness' quality, but of course, still missing the above-20KHZ harmonics that gives LPs 'life',  which wasn't in the stupid CD design  anyway...

This cryo process is meant to release the stresses in the aluminium, the  metal part of the CD  PLUS.... on the cleaning, you get rid of the silicon  from the stamper process, further helping the laser make a better contact with the pit.


Do a batch of about a dozen CDs.  ..Take them out of their covers/boxes..  Place into your deep-freeze. Mark the time/date they must come out on the door, which is 36 hours later, (1.5 days)... Remove them and place them in the refrigerator for 12 hours.. Mark the time/date to remove them... Remove them and next  you have to clean them.  Makeup a wide-necked bottle of  a mix of 33% water, 33% kitchen wash-up detergent, and 33% propyl alcohol...(Shake well each time before use)...You also need to make a simple cleaning tool, such as I made...Use a soft cloth, wrap it around a wooden chopstick several times, and staple onto oneside only...Dip your cleaning tool into your bottle of mix and wash the CD, holding the tool flat against the CD,  in one direction for 10 seconds, then turn the CD 90 degrees and wash in the other direction for 10 seconds.. Then rinse the CD under lukewarm running water,  and  then dry it by patting with a kitchen paper towel...

Test the CD and if you hear the BIG difference, which you should,  unless u r tone deaf, then do the lot..A two man/woman team gets them washed and dried at tremendous speed!!

I did my whole collection over 6 months, and the new ones get done when about a dozen collect..

John Chapman

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Cryogenic Freezing
« Reply #7 on: 14 Oct 2003, 09:01 pm »
Hello!

Thanks for the post! I am close to cryoing (is that a word?)  a batch of trannies and stuff locally and will chuck some cd's in at the same time.


Thansk!

John Chapman
www.bentaudio.com

gonefishin

Cryogenic Freezing
« Reply #8 on: 14 Oct 2003, 09:12 pm »
Thomas...with all do respect of your opinion...Cryoing does make a difference...if that difference is audible or not is for you (and I) to decide...but throwing anything in your deep freeze (or even in a flash freezer for that matter) will do nothing more to the metal than make it cold...for a short time.



   take care>>>>>>>>>>>

DSR

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crogenetic freezing
« Reply #9 on: 14 Oct 2003, 09:49 pm »
Hi  Ive only just picked up on this strain as  I must admit CD is not good enough sonically but I did try the Freezer experiment several years ago.Its not quite as effective as the dark green stainer on the edges or centre part of the compact disc but its a small step in the right direction. Im into SACD user and possible DIY DVDA in the near future but basically a vinyl man .Ive recently started cleaning my vinyl  with a product  called reveel from RATA in UK which is a variant solution of what cleans/polishes the reflective  surface of CDs. Astonished to find people suggesting tap water ,even in tiny proportions for cleaning CD/DVD   Deposits on Cd surface of calcium etc  must be pretty gross.Suppose if you cro after it might help....DSr :nono:

randytsuch

Re: crogenetic freezing
« Reply #10 on: 14 Oct 2003, 11:13 pm »
Quote from: DSR
Astonished to find people suggesting tap water ,even in tiny proportions for cleaning CD/DVD Deposits on Cd surface of calcium etc must be pretty gross.Suppose if you cro after it might help....DSr


Good point.  I have to admit I used tap water to clean some of my CD's, along with dish soap.  Guess I will do the final rinse with filtered water.  Easy enough to do, and no calcium to worry about.

BTW, I did my version of cryo treating my SB102's prior to building my preamp, they were at -80C over a weekend, but I never compared before/after, so don't know what difference it makes.  It was easy for me to do, so I just did it.

Since I was putting my preamp in a wooden box, I did not want to put it together, then freeze it, was worried how -80 would affect the wood finish.

Randy