[kyrill]

Hi Aspen audiocircle forum 

Welcome to yr first and maybe last locked forum discussion, as it brought  this forum to a truer representation of human dialog. 
Even masters disguised behind text, want to be handled in respect and they should be! But sometimes misunderstandings and a wavering patience cloud tone and timbre and hifi turns to midfi. Aspen audiophile quality asks for a reset to let the sun shines in again
And that's what happened

[Jens]

This is such a great forum - let it be the last locked thread 

[AKSA]

Regrettable.....

Hugh

[ShinOBIWAN]

Well I'm still scratching my head as to why Andy went off in the way he did. He seems to cite the reason as my (in)decisions regarding amplifier kitset choices. Frankly that was only the second or third time I've even posted a reply to the guy. So I really have no idea what warranted that.

I feel its important just to get across my side of the story, so here it is.

As far as I can tell Andy was watching from the sidelines as I posted a glowing AKSA 55N+ review here and then later compared it to the SKA and came to the conclusion that I preferred the SKA in a majority of, but not all, area's. I also went to great lengths making it clear that the whole listening process is entirely subjective and my choices will obviously be different to anyone else's. I even consciously posted the whole comparison on DIYA forum rather than here at AC out of respect for AKSA and Hugh. I tried to be as considerate as possible. Then some months later I had reservations about the SKA(later turned out to related to the treble driver characteristics rather than the amp) and got in touch with Hugh asking about his new LF amp. Hugh put me in touch with Andy as he felt he could offer an impartial opinion and we swapped a PM or two. Still with reservations about the price vs. quality I posted in the LF thread and voiced concerns about it and asked Hugh if it would be possible to buy with the option of returning if I felt the 55N+ to LF upgrade was too small for my budget. I was hailed down with abuse from a couple of AKSA owners as well as Andy who also, like a true gent, brought up things we'd discussed in private, nothing controversial in those conversation but he certainly span them like only the best politicians could whilst simultaneously trying to make something out of nothing. I remained polite throughout the episode and I will add so did Hugh.

Being genuinely interested in the LF and also considering that asking for a buy then try and possible return of the LF was off cuff(nowhere near to the extent of the comments and abuse it solicited from a couple of AKSA owners though) I PM'd Hugh to try and arrange a trade in my 55N+ to the LF without the proviso of any return goodwill being extended that I'd asked for previously. I waited a few days with no reply which isn't normally like Hugh because he was always quite prompt in the emails and PM's we'd had prior. So I sent it again with similar results. For whatever reason that I still don't know to this day why Hugh choose to not deal with an existing AKSA customer.

After that episode I felt both AKSA owners and the proprietor were both rude and shame on Hugh for not even acknowledging requests from an existing AKSA owner to follow through on his upgrade policy.

I've bought kitsets/PCB's from Aussieamps, Greg Ball, Rod Elliot and AKSA. I've also wrote some kind of opinion on them all and only with the AKSA have been called a wanker by a fellow user and ignored by the proprietor.

Feel free to clear up any points I've made. The above is my honest appraisal on what has passed and as such I feel it accurately reflects the events.

How about we all just get along regardless of opinions, it'd be a boring place if everyone agreed on the same things.

[kyrill]

how much water has passed under the bridge since then?
And yes if we all would agree and continue and agree again continuing agreeing we would all end in the end having the same experiences as if the world has only one preamp, poweramp, intergrated and one set of speakers to choose from of all there is. Erghh this forum would probably not exist we would agree to be happy with a set of Bose Boxes

We would drive the same car probably an Opel Vectra ( erghh) and only one motorbike, hopefully not the Jawa CZ two stroke

[ShinOBIWAN]

how much water has passed under the bridge since then?

I thought all of it until a few days ago, a locked thread and then this one.

We would drive the same car probably an Opel Vectra ( erghh) and only one motorbike, hopefully not the Jawa CZ two stroke

Sometimes boring is good though, the Hayabusa or Yamaha R1 have just got to require some sort of health check before you can jump on one surely?

[AKSA]

Hi Shinobiwan,

Can we please leave this alone?  By all means PM me if you have a grievance, I will chat privately about it.

I agree with your comments about the Hayabusa/R1, but would point you at the new king, the Gixer and the Ninja ZX14.  I own an old ZRX which I love;  finest bike I've had, good enough to scare me seriously if I give it a bit of stick......

Cheers,

Hugh

[ShinOBIWAN]

I agree with your comments about the Hayabusa/R1, but would point you at the new king, the Gixer and the Ninja ZX14.  I own an old ZRX which I love;  finest bike I've had, good enough to scare me seriously if I give it a bit of stick......

Ah the Gixer. I was watching a video of this formidable engine strapped to the back of kart just recently:

http://videos.streetfire.net/search/go+kart/1/9016dcdb-34af-40e7-876b-980b00b01c3d.htm

I'd give my left testie for a few laps in that thing.

[rabbitz]

I've bought kitsets/PCB's from Aussieamps, Greg Ball, Rod Elliot and AKSA.

I've tried all of those and there are good amps to be had in each camp. In the end it all comes down to personal tastes and the synergy in the system. I have my favourite and there are no prizes for guessing which one it is. There are others in that group that just require perseverance and have finally after 4 years managed to get an amp I hated, to sound good and involving... was worth the effort and very satisfying.

What came out of all these builds, testing and listening, is the importance a good pre amp as it can make or most times, break a good system. Pre amps are the hardest to choose and get right IMO.

I'm glad all that variety is out there and had to try them for myself, but in the end I came full circle and still use the same power amp, 55N+, that's been the mainstay in my main system since 2004. Some of these amps never made it past the test system and others had failures, but that's part of the game.

[kyrill]

hi Rabbitz

Before the preamp has a big finger in the meal as well, how things sound. Putting a precision clock in my cd transport was an almost deafening  purifying of sound. and then blah blah line conditioners shielded interconnects

[rabbitz]

Yes, there are so many things in the chain from source to ears.

I'm only speaking from my experiences and all those other items before or after the pre that I've tried, tended to vary the flavour, alter the presentation, most times gave an improvement, and with a bit of research, I can choose these wisely. None of the other changes were destructive to the sound, unlike when using a bad or mismatched pre. Pre's can be evil.... driving source cable, impedance matching, buffering, gain, low level signals.... a head spin. That said, I do have some good ones but took a long time. I do not understand enough about electronic design to pick out the great from the bad pre's and that's been my dilema for many years as I've just had to build and try until I found the right ones that suited me or my power amps.

The largest changes to sound IMO has to be loudspeakers but those are not hard to get right.... I understand those suckers. Pre's on the other hand come from Mars as far as I'm concerned.

While we are on this discussion, I'd like to hear from others in the community on what was their hardest item to get right or find.... their achilles heel.... my vote is the pre, as you may have noticed 

[ShinOBIWAN]

While we are on this discussion, I'd like to hear from others in the community on what was their hardest item to get right or find.... their achilles heel.... my vote is the pre, as you may have noticed 

For me, undoubtedly the room. Shoving speakers into corners is not a good idea for the best sound but thanks to the high £ per square meter of British homes I have a listening room that even the Borrowers would think cramped. To that end I've rigorously pursued all manor of tweaks from physical room treatments to various digital room correction methods. The difference between wet and dry configurations is pretty astonishing. Of course no trickery and a well suited room is preferred but for now this was the toughest to tackle and has certainly brought some of the larger benefits.

[Seano]

Ditto the room.........in all the time since I've acquired the AKSA I've had five different lounge rooms.  Only one of these (the first one) can be said to have had a regular room with optimum positioning/room effects.......since then it has all been about compromise. 

Latest set-up has speakers well akimbo - they make noise but there's no sweet spot.  But it still sounds OK - I'm not that anal about how my music sounds...as long as I can hear music I'm a happy camper.

But I will get this latest room 'fixed' as much as possible over the next couple of years  as the reno progresses....

[AKSA]

Yeah, yeah, the room, I know......

I've spent thousands ignoring my room.  Hours, that is....       But recently, and Sean saw this, I put in a beautiful big floor covering, thanks to DSK who could stand it no longer   , and now my room is halfway reasonable.

The sorry truth is I don't much listen to music any more.  I've suffered the fate of the working girl....   now I only listen to sound.  It's very sad, but there it goes.

But I do think that if the room is perfect, then the system had better be damn good, because it will show it up very quickly.

Cheers,

Hugh

[andyr]

The sorry truth is I don't much listen to music any more.  I've suffered the fate of the working girl....   now I only listen to sound.  It's very sad, but there it goes.

Cheers,

Hugh

Mmm, do I read you right, Hugh?      

"Working girls" are so turned off by their work that they don't enjoy a bit of "horizontal folk dancing" with their boyfriends ... and you can't enjoy listening to music bcoz you only ever listen for faults/improvements resulting from a new tweak? 

Luckily for me my wife doesn't do that sort of work and I only ever listen to music!     In my carefully designed, "music room", no less!  Thank you, stars, for making my life-path a fortunate one! 

Regards,

Andy

[AKSA]

Some years ago at the Melbourne Audio Club there was a long listening session and at completion, well satisfied, the exhibitor began to wrap up the evening.  One enthusiastic member hurriedly stood and protested he wanted to hear a particular piece, proffering a CD, and there was a hushed, slightly irritated silence in the group of about 70 people.

I then quietly, but firmly, said this:

'The trouble with some of you people is that you will insist on listening to the music.  Heck, you call yourselves audiophiles, what's wrong with you?  You must ignore the music, and listen to the sound, it's the only way to appreciate the equipment.'

There was a hush for about five seconds, then finally one guy realised it was a joke, and a snigger came out, very soon the whole room was laughing.

I think this little bit of irony explains our dilemma well.  It is the human condition, it is quite amusing.....

The music is incidental.  It's the sound that's important.  Andy, shame on you, where is your sense of duty?  A few years of doing what I do and you no longer hear the music!   

Cheers,

Hugh

[Seano]

Hugh, you just need to listen more often and uncritically.......I note that I never saw (or was directed to) the audio setup in the workshop.....the shed radio if you will.

If you don't have one then perhaps you should build one......

It's worth remembering that it's a very large (but highly budget concious!) market too.

[kyrill]

Well to be a working girl is not too bad, but it must not take too long
temporal junior contractors to do the soldering, is that not possible?
time is money, money is time, is money is time is freedom, is money is time is happiness, is love is,,,ergh i get lost