[Parnelli777]

Here's some real big block power. 815 ci. Mopar, GM too. $50,000 and its all yours




http://www.jonkaaseracingengines.com

[Imperial]

Mr Kaase is quite nuts... and very good!
And he makes sure you pay for that kind of quality... 

I suppose it is apparent that I'm sort of a tech-head...
Compacted graphite iron!
I can remember when they came up with this stuff in Sweden I believe it was (The engine block part... )..
(it was patented in 1949... but they made engine blocks with it later...)
It's the best material for engine blocks... the best!
Bill Mitchell (World products "Hardcore" now make 440/426 CGI blocks!
This block will go to more than 630Cid !!!


not so fond of the 426 setup... I'm just not!
The 440 on the other hand... now we are talking low rev super engine!!!
That's my kind of engine!!!
A 440 wedge block punched and stroked out to achieve 496 Cubic inches... no more no less...
A fantastic setup! The 496 Wedge!
Uhm... I don't like a V8 to be less than 454 Cid... It shows eh?
I'm Big Block all the way!

 

Now! Some info on compacted graphite iron!
CGI is 75 percent stronger and up to 75 percent stiffer than gray iron.

The thermal and damping characteristics of CGI are midway between ductile and gray iron. It is five times more fatigue resistant than aluminum at elevated temperatures, and twice as resistant to metal fatigue as gray iron.

The nodularity and tensile strength of the material also increases as wall-section decreases.

These properties have most recently been found to make CGI ideally suited for engine manufacturing, where lighter and stronger materials are needed which can absorb more power.

An assembled automotive engine can be made nine percent lighter with CGI. The engine block weight alone can be reduced by 22 percent. This corresponds to a 15 percent reduction in length and a five percent reduction in height and width.
Yup! It is a very cool material!

Imperial

[Imperial]

While we are at it...
I like Restomods...
And I like Schwartz Extreme Performance look on things...
Total package, not just great parts coming together! That is cool!

As for the Pontiac engine... Well. the answer comes obviously not today it seems...
Less than 677-697lbs/ft was the poll result... We'll see!
When spotts performance post the crate engine specs and hp figures and so and so...
It seems it was 27'th of July... A bit of a missread on my part... uhm.. 
Well... only a month away I guess... 

And, I just swung by the Lingenfelter website, I do this from time to time, sometimes they have engines
for sale, and this time they had a 408 cid chevy with a 1600rpm to 6000rpm usable powerband!
They charge about the same for this one as Herron does for a pair of their Monoblocks....
So it does not have to cost a lot for a VERY reliable and superbly blueprinted turnkey engine!

Imperial

[lazydays]

Mr Kaase is quite nuts... and very good!
And he makes sure you pay for that kind of quality... 

I suppose it is apparent that I'm sort of a tech-head...
Compacted graphite iron!
I can remember when they came up with this stuff in Sweden I believe it was (The engine block part... )..
(it was patented in 1949... but they made engine blocks with it later...)
It's the best material for engine blocks... the best!
Bill Mitchell (World products "Hardcore" now make 440/426 CGI blocks!
This block will go to more than 630Cid !!!


not so fond of the 426 setup... I'm just not!
The 440 on the other hand... now we are talking low rev super engine!!!
That's my kind of engine!!!
A 440 wedge block punched and stroked out to achieve 496 Cubic inches... no more no less...
A fantastic setup! The 496 Wedge!
Uhm... I don't like a V8 to be less than 454 Cid... It shows eh?
I'm Big Block all the way!

 

Now! Some info on compacted graphite iron!
CGI is 75 percent stronger and up to 75 percent stiffer than gray iron.

The thermal and damping characteristics of CGI are midway between ductile and gray iron. It is five times more fatigue resistant than aluminum at elevated temperatures, and twice as resistant to metal fatigue as gray iron.

The nodularity and tensile strength of the material also increases as wall-section decreases.

These properties have most recently been found to make CGI ideally suited for engine manufacturing, where lighter and stronger materials are needed which can absorb more power.

An assembled automotive engine can be made nine percent lighter with CGI. The engine block weight alone can be reduced by 22 percent. This corresponds to a 15 percent reduction in length and a five percent reduction in height and width.
Yup! It is a very cool material!

Imperial

Mopar made a run of aluminium cylinder blocks that had a relocated cam shaft centerline, a taller deck, and came rough bored at 4.650". Were capable of taking a 4.750" bore and a 5" stroke. What the heads would look like I have no idea.
    Mopar does make a hemi block that uses 440 motor mounts. That and a pair of
Stage V heads would be a killer if you could figure what to do about headers clearing the front motor mount & K frame.
    Now as I write this I happen to know somebody that is contemplating the built of a steel 32 Ford roadster. If he goes ahead an builds it, it will have an alloy Donovan 417 water block and their tunnel port heads (he knows somebody that happens to have two engines). What he's thinking about doing is Hilborn or Endrele fuel injection converted over to electronic injection, crank triggered ignition, and a hemi torqueflite transmission.
The plan is 675 hp on 467 cu. in and unleaded gas. The only hang up right now is about raising $30K and a couple more trades. Must be nice to be rich<g>!!
gary

[lazydays]

Well Gary... This 358 R5P7 makes 800 break-necks... but I'm sure that sounds familiar...



 

Imperial

you know that the first thing I noticed about that pic was the absense of intake ports! Asked my brother about that, and he just grinned. He's seen them, and said that what it was, was the idea that Ford had years ago, but done right. G.M. tried a similar concept, but couldn't make it work either on their smaller motors. Must be in the port angle as they wont let you see it. The motor made into a four banger is the killer I was telling you all about, and the same can be said for the eight cylinder used in sprint cars. I WANT ONE!
glt

[Daygloworange]

Here's a radical advancement. Spherical valves. Coates is the manufacturer. They can spin a 5.0 litre V8 engine to almost 15000 rpm with this valvetrain. 





Cheers

[Daygloworange]

Another cool engine is the Falconer V-12. They've even had this installed in P-51 Mustang race planes. 800 hp out of 600 Cubic inches on pump gas.



Cheers

[James Romeyn]

How does a 4-stroke compete against a same displacement 2-stroke?  Eight valves per cylinder.  How do you fit 8 valves over a piston?  Oval pistons w/ 2-conrods...naturally-aspirated 4-stroke 260hp/liter (500cc 130hp); not bad for the '70s! 

http://world.honda.com/history/challenge/1979pistonengine/



The story of Soichiro Honda's original goal to make a better piston to industrial Japanese powerhouse to having nothing except the clothes on his back (WWIIs anhiliation of the Japanese economy) & then returning to one of the most powerful industrial powerhouses again, will about make you cry.

Soichiro, true to his original goals & intent, upon his retirement, believed his son was not fit to take over the company, so he denied this promotion to his son & gave it to someone else more capable.     

[Imperial]

They did have a problem back then with the gasket back then... blow by and all..
They solved in the 90's with that awesome motorcycle oval piston engine.
It was what, 250 400 or 600 or 750cc big? Don't remember, but it spun insanely fast!
Cool stuff that oval piston tech!
Honda is quite the engine corp!

Imperial

[James Romeyn]

Doesn't it look like a PhotoShop job?  But it's NOT!

By the time Honda perfected the oval piston 4-stroke technology they were already winning GP world championships on their 2-stroke, putting the nail in the oval piston coffin.

[lazydays]

While we are at it...
I like Restomods...
And I like Schwartz Extreme Performance look on things...
Total package, not just great parts coming together! That is cool!

As for the Pontiac engine... Well. the answer comes obviously not today it seems...
Less than 677-697lbs/ft was the poll result... We'll see!
When spotts performance post the crate engine specs and hp figures and so and so...
It seems it was 27'th of July... A bit of a missread on my part... uhm.. 
Well... only a month away I guess... 

And, I just swung by the Lingenfelter website, I do this from time to time, sometimes they have engines
for sale, and this time they had a 408 cid chevy with a 1600rpm to 6000rpm usable powerband!
They charge about the same for this one as Herron does for a pair of their Monoblocks....
So it does not have to cost a lot for a VERY reliable and superbly blueprinted turnkey engine!

Imperial

Ligenfilter's engines are well known in race circles as three minute engines. I remember Garlets saying once on Speed that he felt they were shot it ninety secounds of racing!
gary

[lazydays]

Here's a radical advancement. Spherical valves. Coates is the manufacturer. They can spin a 5.0 litre V8 engine to almost 15000 rpm with this valvetrain. 





Cheers

more importantly is the 60 horse power it took to drive the old style valve train at 7500 rpm. At 10K RPM it would be nearly a hundred horse power advantage. Doubt the bottom end would last long using the normal 3" stroke at 15K rpm. Might add the concept is not new, and was used in the 1930's by Marmon if my memory is correct. Maybe a real bugger to seal the spools after a couple hours of usage; I don't know.
     There are engines on dynos right now that don't drive the cam shaft off the crank, but use servo motors in a four cam configuration. Valve springs are very light with infinate valve timing.
gary

[Imperial]

Ligenfilter's engines are well known in race circles as three minute engines. I remember Garlets saying once on Speed that he felt they were shot it ninety secounds of racing!
gary

Oh dear  , the ones I've seen have not even had a hick-up here in Norway.
They fare that bad a rep in the states? It's quite the opposite in Europe!
Well well, I've not heard of one breaking down yet, in Europe.
The engine in mention on their homepage isn't a race engine.
And from what I know Lingenfelter used to race himself, for a lot longer than 90 seconds at a time...
The engines held up to that as I recall. I believe they were run for some 10-15 minutes of absolutely max revs... The "Big Red" Camaro had a Lingenfelter Engine... It held up pretty nice... for 20 years actually.
You know Silverstate classic and all that. The later iteration is built by Larry Mollicone.
It had 750++ using a Bowtie head.. then over 800, and now some ca 900BHP with a AFR head setup.
Donovan alu block and stuff like that. Big Red used 27min 54 secs on the record run.
Now that means some 7100rpm = 222mhp and 6900rpm = 197mph.

We do have a "foreverlast" builder of large Race V8's that don't break down in Norway.
Widmer Racing. The owner is Peter Widmer.
Let's just say that he ain't cheap to use! Very expensive engines come out of that engineshop.
I think he uses Sunnen exclusively. Claims Superior results using Sunnen for machining and all that.
What is your take on that?

Imperial

[Imperial]

Now... I also would like to say something that may or may not be known too well to everyone.
Using a brand new engine block will NEVER give the best result...
This is because pent-up pressure that is in the metal in the new block... it needs to "shake and bake" some years to release this or part of it.
One should build an engine ... use it lightly for say 2-3 years... then do the real high power build with it.
Final machining and stuff must be done now... If you do it from brand new... it is not gonna be as good!
This gives the best result...
But this is old news to enginebuilders I'm sure. Just thought I'd mention it.

I remember a racing team in Norway (using a chevy 327 I believe), kept blowing the two innermost pistons
They experienced lean conditions obviously. They were talking about the problem at a cruise meet,
and I happened to hear their conversation. And you know, you stand there with the big boys and suddenly you know that you know the answer to their problem...because you read the latest issue of Hod Rod magazine... and that problem was talked about there by Freiburg I believe it was...
It was carb related and lean conditions in some types of intake manifolds as a result of this...
So, not being the timid type, I asked about what kind of setup the engine had... And told them how to modify it...  (they gave me the "who are you?"-look) but actually listenend to me! Yes!
You know, I don't think they blew up that engine again... Yup! I'm not gonna say that I lost sleep over that one...  And needless to say, Hot Rod Magazine got a renewal on their subscription that year from me...  aa
Imperial

[Bob in St. Louis]

Now... I also would like to say something that may or may not be known too well to everyone.
Using a brand new engine block will NEVER give the best result...
This is because pent-up pressure that is in the metal in the new block... it needs to "shake and bake" some years to release this or part of it.

I've heard it refered to as a "seasoned" block. Also heard stories of guys that would strip them down to the bare casting and let them sit outside for a few years for all the internal stresses caused by the casting/manufacturing process to be relieved.

Bob

[James Romeyn]

Re. valve spring power loss:
My engine builder friend decades ago talked about power loss from higher tension valve springs, necessary for increased RPM & taller/sharper cam profiles.

Ducati's Desmodromic system provides positive up/down mechanical actuation of the valves; the only purpose served by the associated light-tension spring is to eliminate free play.  Ducati has long claimed Desmodromic's alleged performance advantage.  Considering their obvious straight-line performance advantage vs. everyone including Honda in this season's MotoGP, maybe they finally delivered on the promise.

[lazydays]

Ligenfilter's engines are well known in race circles as three minute engines. I remember Garlets saying once on Speed that he felt they were shot it ninety secounds of racing!
gary

Oh dear  , the ones I've seen have not even had a hick-up here in Norway.
They fare that bad a rep in the states? It's quite the opposite in Europe!
Well well, I've not heard of one breaking down yet, in Europe.
The engine in mention on their homepage isn't a race engine.
And from what I know Lingenfelter used to race himself, for a lot longer than 90 seconds at a time...
The engines held up to that as I recall. I believe they were run for some 10-15 minutes of absolutely max revs... The "Big Red" Camaro had a Lingenfelter Engine... It held up pretty nice... for 20 years actually.
You know Silverstate classic and all that. The later iteration is built by Larry Mollicone.
It had 750++ using a Bowtie head.. then over 800, and now some ca 900BHP with a AFR head setup.
Donovan alu block and stuff like that. Big Red used 27min 54 secs on the record run.
Now that means some 7100rpm = 222mhp and 6900rpm = 197mph.

We do have a "foreverlast" builder of large Race V8's that don't break down in Norway.
Widmer Racing. The owner is Peter Widmer.
Let's just say that he ain't cheap to use! Very expensive engines come out of that engineshop.
I think he uses Sunnen exclusively. Claims Superior results using Sunnen for machining and all that.
What is your take on that?

Imperial

Oh Boy!

Liggenfelter is dead, and lived in the northern part of the sate I live in. Never did much around here, but did show up a few times in Muncie (that's about all). At one time quite a few people used his engines with the same results. Now only the "ET" guys use them.
Before he passed away he ran a digger that did OK, but didn't really win anything much.
That was even though he had a direct connection with the Warren Tech bunch. Might add that it was not uncommon for John to change an engine twice at an event, and still not win.
    Must be one heck of a Dyno! 900 hp out of a small block Chevy? Even doubt a 355 running on 98% nitro would do that in perfect conditions. Sprints usually shoot for 750 -800 hp. running with alcohol & juice. A race hemi with D4 heads and 14:1 pistons will make 1200hp on gas if the builder knows his business (426 cu in). And once again that's a three minute motor.
    The Sunnen hone is a nice piece of tooling. Been around them for years, and they'll get the bores with in .0003 if the crosshatch is not a huge factor. Most good builders have the blocks powerhoned, and then re-hone them theirselves. That's how they get the rings to break in within a minute. Plus they will also take the rest of the taper out of the bores at the sametime. Rings are then bought .005" overbore, and the filed to fit for a near perfect .013" gap. Might add that the bore finish is very smooth with a slight cross hatch.
gary

[lazydays]

Now... I also would like to say something that may or may not be known too well to everyone.
Using a brand new engine block will NEVER give the best result...
This is because pent-up pressure that is in the metal in the new block... it needs to "shake and bake" some years to release this or part of it.

I've heard it refered to as a "seasoned" block. Also heard stories of guys that would strip them down to the bare casting and let them sit outside for a few years for all the internal stresses caused by the casting/manufacturing process to be relieved.

Bob

I used to know guys that went thru junkyards on a regular basis looking for used motors.
Todays blocks are cast from a cast iron that closer to the trade name "semi-steel". They move all over the place, but season out in about six weeks. This is one of the reasons that we finally are starting to see deep skirt blocks and thicker decks. In the past the mains moved all over the place in engines that were machined flat where the main caps were bolted to the blocks. All the splayed bolts patterns in the world wont fix this. You need a main cap that's supported on the sides and cross bolted. Then there was the problems with deck flex. New motors are so much better than the old ones, but slightly heavier. Lastly an iron block motor will always make more power than an alloy block just like it because of two reasons. Flex, and the ability to retain heat. Remember heat is also power.
gary

[Imperial]

Oh Boy!

Must be one heck of a Dyno! 900 hp out of a small block Chevy? Even doubt a 355 running on 98% nitro would do that in perfect conditions.
gary

Big Red is a Donovan/AFR with 540 CID.. it has 13.2 to 1 compression and wild cams and lots more!
Race gas only then! 874BHP currently I believe!
Getting 540 Cid to spin to 7100rpm for 30minutes and not break down..is quite good!
I guess that It's correct that he did not win to much himself..

Heat in blocks... You can get your aluminuminum... nummy... with ceramic heat retention coatings..
That works! I've not seen it used for some 10 years, but they did it back then!

Imperial

[lazydays]

Oh Boy!

Must be one heck of a Dyno! 900 hp out of a small block Chevy? Even doubt a 355 running on 98% nitro would do that in perfect conditions.
gary

Big Red is a Donovan/AFR with 540 CID.. it has 13.2 to 1 compression and wild cams and lots more!
Race gas only then! 874BHP currently I believe!
Getting 540 Cid to spin to 7100rpm for 30minutes and not break down..is quite good!
I guess that It's correct that he did not win to much himself..

Heat in blocks... You can get your aluminuminum... nummy... with ceramic heat retention coatings..
That works! I've not seen it used for some 10 years, but they did it back then!

Imperial

the real problem with aluminium blocks (and heads) is that they flex all over the place.
Now you can get by with that in the cylinder head, but when a block moves due to heat you loose horse power and the main bearings.
    An example of the above was the entire bottom end of an aluminium block ending up all over the track on Speed last night. It even took the oil pan rails out when it let go. These guys put stroker cranks in those small blocks while still trying to get by with a 5.7" rod length. Results always end up the same same unless they plan on breaking down the short block on a regular basis. The mains shift due to heat and and short rod length to stroke ratio. That's why circle track guys use 6.38" rods.
gary