[EMM801]

I am shopping for speakers. Not "high end" but good-value moderately priced systems, say $600 to $1K a pair tops. Apparently "acoustic suspension" as a design platform has all but vanished from the market.  Of the systems in or near my approximate price range, only the Ohm Sub-Sat 3 and the new overpriced Allison line are acoustic suspension. I am aware of the sensitivity advantages of ported designs, but new driver design/manufacturing techniques have probably closed the gap a little, especially in medium-to-large systems. Even AR, the inventor of this approach, and Advent have gone to ported systems. Advents are now nothing more than glorified Jensens anyway, and I wasn't considering AR seriously, but I m puzzled that virtually no one is using this design approach anymore. I have nothing against ported speakers, mind you, I just remember when almost every speaker ad in the '70s blared "Acoustic Suspension for low distortion!"
Anybody with suggestions for good values in the price range I have set out, I'd consider anything. I am currently looking at Polk RTi70's ($600/pr on sale at Crutchfield) and Ohm Sub-Sat 3's and MicroWalshes. A small tower or sub-sat system is my likely preference. Good sensitivity would be a plus. My amp is low-powered by today's standards (40wpc, but 40 very robust watts), but my days of "cranking it" are largely a thing of the past (I use headphones now for that) and I won't be using them in a huge room.  Welcome any suggestions as to what YOU would look at in this range. Musical tastes mainly jazz and blues.

[Jason1]

I'm partial to ACI, so I'm going to suggest you check out the Emerald

http://www.audioc.com/speakers/Emerald/Emerald%20LE1.html

Read the review at TNT Audio where it gets compared to a more well known speaker

 http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/aciemerald_e.html

[Sa-dono]

If you really still want acoustic suspension speakers, NHT would be your best bet.

http://www.nhthifi.com/products_home.asp

[EMM801]

It's not so much that I'm "fixed" on acoustic suspension, but puzzled that this design approach has been so abandoned. I have heard NHT's are good and will look into them as well; thanks.

[Iced Halo]

ATC's are also acoustic suspension designs.

[audiojerry]

Have you ever heard Magnepan? The planar/quasi ribbon offer a palpable realism that differs significantly from dynamic speakers. For your musical tastes, they are a must-try. Maggie offers 60 day trial on their entry level for $550, I believe, but the speaker panels occupy a bit more space. Check their website for their offer.

[EDS_]

I'm an acoustic suspension fan myself.
Some downsides are-The sealed box generally (almost always) must be bigger than a similar sounding ported design. AS speakers are less efficient in the bass region than ported designs.

IMO-AS speakers seem to offer more accurate bass.

I think the designer has an easier time designing a cool-looking ported speaker than an AS.

[EMM801]

IMO-AS speakers seem to offer more accurate bass.

I think the designer has an easier time designing a cool-looking ported speaker than an AS.

That's my feeling...That "ported" has become another marketing "buzzword" to reel in uneducated consumers, more than a necessarily superior design approach. (To repeat, I have nothing against ported speakers per se.)

And with today's cheap watts, the efficiency difference means even less than it did 30 years ago in AS' heyday.

Too bad Allison seems to have adopted a what-the-market-will-bear pricing strategy for their new line. (Seems to happen a lot when manufacturers adopt the label High End). The reissue Four sells for a whopping $3K a pair (I paid $185 each, street,  for the ones I bought in 1980 and foolishly sold). Even the plain-black PB 8.2, a two-way, two driver system, sells for a seemingly high $1270.

[DVV]

That's my feeling...That "ported" has become another marketing "buzzword" to reel in uneducated consumers, more than a necessarily superior design approach. (To repeat, I have nothing against ported speakers per se.)

And with today's cheap watts, the efficiency difference means even less than it did 30 years ago in AS' heyday.

Too bad Allison seems to have adopted a what-the-market-will-bear pricing strategy for their new line. (Seems to happen a lot when manufacturers adopt the la ...

I'll drink to that.

In their heyday, AR speakers could take on any price-equivalent JBL, Altec, etc and come away smelling of roses.

Acoustic suspension, or sealed enclosures, offer several benefits:

1. Their bass begins to drop off sooner than ported designs', but does so far more gradually;

2. Their bass almost by default exhibits less phase shift than ported esigns, which we usually hear as better defined, "cleaner" bass.

But they have their pitfalls as well:

1. For same bass extension, they need to be much bigger than ported designs, and

2. They are generally less efficient than ported designs.

But frankly, a well designed and made speaker will sound great, no matter what type of bass loading it uses.

Cheers,
DVV

[Curt]

I'm a fan of using 2-way AS satellites matched up with vented subs, the best of both worlds. Of course using an active XO for splitting the frequency.

The satellites are usually good to 80-100Hz low end which is ideal for integrating the subs. The vented subs require less power and can be driven with the same type of amplifier used for the 2-ways achieving better sound.

The transient response of AS speakers is more accurate and even though they are less efficient they do sound better (IMO).

In the 70s this was the standard. Did I just show my age?  

[Tonto Yoder]

Too bad Allison seems to have adopted a what-the-market-will-bear pricing strategy for their new line. (Seems to happen a lot when manufacturers adopt the la ...

Why not buy used Allisons?? There are Fours on eBay--
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3041289245&category=14991

A Buy It Now of $800 and shipping would be$90/pair. Earlier, a pair sold for $450.

[EMM801]

I'll definitely consider it if I can find a pair at the right price. I had a pair of second-generation (CD8 ) Allisons too, and they subjectively had better treble extension and transient response. I like the unbeatable dispersion too. A testament to Allison  performance that they are hard to find used.
One other thing about AS speakers, the enclosure build quality has to be good, as the enclosure has to damp out all the backwave energy from the woofer.  
I am also toying with the idea of MicroWalshes but Ohm publishes no sensitivity data for them on their site and they have a rep for taking a lot of power to drive.  Don't know if they are sealed or ported. Anybody heard them?
Anybody suggest any other sources for used speakers to supplement ebay?

[ehider]

Wow

$800 for a used pair of decent mid-fi speakers over a decade old

Now that's damn impressive

[EMM801]

Wow

$800 for a used pair of decent mid-fi speakers over a decade old

Now that's damn impressive

Yeah, they sounded pretty good for "mid-fi", too... You aren't one of those guys that thinks "good" speakers have to cost at least $5000, are you?

[Tonto Yoder]

Yeah, they sounded pretty good for "mid-fi", too... You aren't one of those guys that thinks "good" speakers have to cost at least $5000, are you?

The Fours on eBay have been listed several times at the opening price of $750, indicating that the $800 BIN might be high.

I'm not sure WHAT the new Fours cost????
http://www.allisonacoustics.com/four.html

I'll bet it's more than $800!

[jqp]

I'm a fan of using 2-way AS satellites matched up with vented subs, the best of both worlds. Of course using an active XO for splitting the frequency...

Thats easy for you to say since you have all the active XOs  

[ehider]

Hey Emm!

To clarify my position on the Allisons - Since these speakers were made there has been a plethora of improvments by many respected speaker companies in crossover design, tweeter design and especially woofer design. I give Roy all the credit he deserves for being so leading edge for his time. Unfortunately, these Allisons for $800 are completely eclipsed in thier detail retrieval, low bass response, imaging and high frequency smoothness by quite a few speakers around $800 or less NEW    This is why I'm soooo surprised these Allisons are fetching so much on the used market. Perhaps some audiophiles are not aware of the current offerings by quite a few companies in the $800 price range  

[DVV]

Hey Emm!

To clarify my position on the Allisons - Since these speakers were made there has been a plethora of improvments by many respected speaker companies in crossover design, tweeter design and especially woofer design. I give Roy all the credit he deserves for being so leading edge for his time. Unfortunately, these Allisons for $800 are completely eclipsed in thier detail retrieval, low bass response, imaging and high frequency smoothness by quite a few speakers around $800 or less NEW     ...

I have a feeling we haven't seen the last of Roy Allison yet.

These legends of their time have a way of resurfacing here and there. Just look at Henry Kloss, initially of AR fame (with Edgar Villichur), then of KLH, then of Advent, then of Cambridge Audio, today making that funny looking but great sounding (kitchen?) radio.

What COULD be a problem is that acoustic suspension drivers are increasingly hard to come by in any real quality, since everybody and their dog have switched to bass reflex. France's Son Audax (part of Harman International empire, and the REAL manufacturer of most JBL and Infinity drivers) still makes some, but they are far from cheap.

But my money is on Roy Allison making a serious comeback, or at least trying hard for one.

Cheers,
DVV

[EMM801]

Hey Emm!

To clarify my position on the Allisons - Since these speakers were made there has been a plethora of improvments by many respected speaker companies in crossover design, tweeter design and especially woofer design. I give Roy all the credit he deserves for being so leading edge for his time. Unfortunately, these Allisons for $800 are completely eclipsed in thier detail retrieval, low bass response, imaging and high frequency smoothness by quite a few speakers around $800 or less NEW     ...

Understood. I didn't intend to flame and don't think you did either. In fact, the Allison CD-series towers I owned significantly surpassed the Fours in all the areas you mention, especially detail and high-frequency extension. It's just that when I think "mid-fi", I think of the kind of stulff you buy without auditioning seriously, or in a situation that bears zero resemblance to actual listening conditions- I'm talking Radio Shack, Best Buy, MallWart.
I think even by today's standards, the old Allisons are better than that. And I think that the PB8.2s could profitably be sold at the $800 price point you mention, rather than the $1270 they do list for. The reissued/reworked Fours, as I mentioned, list for $3k/pr.

[ehider]

Emm,

Thanks for the response. In retrospect I probably misused the word "mid-fi". I really didn't have a term that decribes components that don't measure up sonically to today's entry level high end products. Perhaps I could have said something like "decades ago entry level high end" speakers?