RM40 Tweak You won't beleive

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John Casler

RM40 Tweak You won't beleive
« on: 15 Aug 2003, 12:43 am »
How's that for hype :lol:

Being the eternal tweaker I think I have hit upon a "super simple" tweak for the RM40 (again :lol: )

I am fully and duly impressed with this tweak which I have to play with a bit again to make sure it isn't adding anything negative, but what it does do it does in "spades".

Its two biggest strengths is that it allows you to get incredible sound when standing.  That is, much of the body and impact of the sound is now there when your just standing and walking around the room

Secondly it adds an impact to the leading edge of drums and impact instruments that some feel is lacking in the ribbons.  Well hold on to your fedora gentlemen because the impact "is" there, but your room may be sucking it out or worse yet muffling it.

This tweak assists the speaker at getting the sound to you the way you like it.

I have to run and do my cardio right now, but give me a few more hours of "sonic cockpit" time and if I still like this tweak as much after that as I do now, I'll post it for all you RM40 owners.

And it is the ultimate in simplicity and can be removed when not listening.

It would also help FF1 and FF3 owners too.

I have not tried it on the 626R, RM1 or RM2 and doubt that the improvement (if any) will be the same as the above mentioned speakers, but I willl try it.

I'm just worried about negative impact, but haven't heard any yet.

I might also mention that I don't tweak, because I'm unhappy with anything in the sound of my speakers.  Someone posted to some list that I put foam on my speakers because I felt there was too much refraction from the front baffle.

Nothing could be further from the truth.  In fact since the ribbons have less cabinet defraction I have to assume that a speaker with greater dispersion would benefit more than the RM40.

I just threw it on there to see if I could approach the imaging of the RM/x, which has a smaller cabinet face.

And it did.

Well this one might have even greater benefits and since I called that the "SUPER TWEAK" I don't have a moniker for this one.

Well so much for the pre - "hype".  I'll do more listening tests and report :mrgreen:  :mrgreen:

wshuff

RM40 Tweak You won't beleive
« Reply #1 on: 15 Aug 2003, 02:21 am »
You aren't keeping up with current marketing.

The last tweak was the Super Tweak.  Well, this one is the...


eXXXtreme Super Tweak!!!  


There you go.  I'll give you that one for free.

John Casler

The new "Sonic Director" tweak
« Reply #2 on: 16 Aug 2003, 01:19 am »
Well here it is..... 8)

I suppose I could listen, and listen, and listen, till the cows come home, but maybe a few more pairs of ears will be able to add "input" to what is heard from this tweak.

First I think this tweak will only work on the speakers that have the mid-woofer in a high position of "shooting" over your head when seated.  This includes the RM40, the FF1 and FF3.

It is also more effective to "nearfield" listening since distance from the speaker allows some of the character to develop naturally.

In the design of these speakers the midwoofer handles a frequency range that is still important to impact and body to certain instruments and sonics.

I have heard two criticisms  :nono: of the RM40s, that this tweak addresses.  

Now again let me say that if you listen farfield this tweak will have less affect.

The first criticism is that the impact of some instruments is not as strong as it is with some dynamic cone type speakers and the speculation is that it is because the ribbons can't move enough air.

Nothing is further from the truth.  Four Neopanels will move plenty of air, but this "impact" to percusion and drums as well as other instruments like bass guitar is "also" handled by the 10" mid-woofer, which is basically shooting over your head, when seated nearfield.

In my last "Super Tweak" I played with placing a bit of acoustic foam on the top of the RM40 with about 6-8" extending over the front edge of the speaker to block early ceiling reflections and this certainly did clean up some "sonic smudges" from ceiling bounce. :wink:

Well the new tweak is similar in its reduction of ceiling bounce, but rather than "absorb" this MID-BASS energy with acoustic foam, I am "DIRECTING" it forward by using a solid material (in this case a couple extra kitchen shelves that are covered in formica) that allowed me to play with the amount of overhang.

So picture this (I don't have time for digital pictures right now, unless you can't figure this out)  I have a shelf 1/2" x 10" x 24".  I place it on top of the RM40 so that about 8-9" sticks out over the front of the speaker.

I also place something heavy (in my case it was just a heavy candle that was close by) on top to make sure everything stays in place.

So what does this do?

It "DIRECTS" the midbass energy that would normally be launced toward the ceiling more toward you. :)

What does it do to the sound?

You tell me....

I find that drums, and impact instruments have more leading edge attack, body and bite.  I find that the edges of the soundstage come more alive.  I find that soundstage height fills in in the upper and outer corners where it really wasn't doing anything before.

And get this.  You can now stand up and walk around the room and have somewhat of an increased air, that wasn't there before.

When you are now standing this "Sonic Director" throws some great midbass at you that wasn't getting to you before unless you were 12-15 feet away.

And for some reason, it also directs some increased "highs" at you now when standing :mrgreen:  :mrgreen:

Hello, that will make some people happy. :D

In fact even listening in the next room the sound was different.

So there you have it.

It is simple and easy to try.  Play with different lengths of "overhang".  I ended up liking about 8", but that may change.

Also you can go as temporary or permanent as you like, since you can easily place it for demos, or serious listening and remove it any time in two seconds.

Also you can use any houshold piece of wood/plastic or other material as long as it offers rigidity and the right size.

Now for you interior designers, this can be as good looking as you care to make it by simply matching the speaker cabinet with your "Director" or vice versa :lol:  It is an audio tweak and not an appearance enhancement.

How much does it improve the sound?  

How can that be explained?  I will say this, that I have a "Best of SADE" that I only listen to sparingly since it sounds so "jacked up/redlined" and it sounded great with the "Sonic Director "

Is there any down side?  :(  Other than the fact that the shelves are white formica and look very out of place, I couldn't hear any negative affects.

Additionally, I also have begun to play with the "angle" of the director.  That is, I have placed a lift in the back to angle it down, so that it even more directly, directs the sound toward the listener.

The jury is still out on that one and if the angle is too steep, it does reduce the improvement I mentioned about the highs when standing.  So feel free to contribute if you do any tweaking of the tweak.

So there you have it.  The Sonic Director is now part of the RM40 tweakers notebook.  If you try it have fun and let me know if it "blows your hair back" 8)


Sonic Director

ekovalsky

RM40 Tweak You won't beleive
« Reply #3 on: 16 Aug 2003, 01:37 am »
I'll give it a try... when the wife is not at home of course.  She already thinks I'm crazy.   :lol:


Probably this will have the most effect on those with high ceilings.  If it really works maybe the RM40 cabinet can be revised to have an overhang on top with a grill that is flush with it, extending in front of the drivers instead of following the baffle.

John Casler

RM40 Tweak You won't beleive
« Reply #4 on: 16 Aug 2003, 04:10 am »
Quote from: ekovalsky
I'll give it a try... when the wife is not at home of course.  She already thinks I'm crazy.   :lol:


Probably this will have the most effect on those with high ceilings.  If it really works maybe the RM40 cabinet can be revised to have an overhang on top with a grill that is flush with it, extending in front of the drivers instead of following the baffle.


Actually, ceiling height will not change most of the effect since it is directing the sound forward (much like the beard helps direct the bass to the floor).

Since it blocks the sonic energy from moving upward, it would have more of an effect on those with low ceilings in that aspect since without intervention or absorption the reflection could be more troublesome.

I doubt if Big B will find it significant enough to warrant a cabinet re-design, especially since it can be added so simply.  :wink:

Sa-dono

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RM40 Tweak You won't beleive
« Reply #5 on: 16 Aug 2003, 04:51 am »
Won't this tweak give you more reflected sound, which you always say :nono: to? :scratch:

John Casler

RM40 Tweak You won't beleive
« Reply #6 on: 16 Aug 2003, 07:29 pm »
Quote from: Sa-dono
Won't this tweak give you more reflected sound, which you always say :nono: to? :scratch:


Good question. :)

In stating that reflected sound is a negative :nono: , we have to first realize that the reflections I am refering to (as negatives) are secondary reflections from "room" surfaces that have significant "time" differences to the original signal.   They also emanate from a different point source in relation to the listener, so they obfuscate the soundstage and imaging.

Typically these are sidewall and ceiling reflections that then provide the brain with significantly different (time alignment wise) sonic signals to process.

In the case of this tweak, the "Sonic Director" actually is more like a "horn" or "sonic wave lens"providing a boundary to direct or control the sound rather than something it bounces off of at a distance creating a time alignment problem and point source confusion.

So the tweak actually reduces the amount of midbass that reaches the ceiling and this reduces those confusing reflections.

In fact, at the bottom of the RM40 you have the floor which is a room boundary which "directs" the sound from the Low Woofer and the Passive Radiator to you.

With the Mid-Woofer there is no such boundary, which would be OK when listening at a distance of say over 12-15 feet, but since many (including myself) listen a little closer, this little directional tweak offers the "early integration" of the Mid-Woofer and the Ribbons in a nearfield position and enhances that "impact and weight" of the combo.

I should also say that different frequencies benefit in varying amounts with active assosciation with other surfaces.

It is quite clear that lower bass notes can benefit from the reinforcement and directionality provided by room boundaries.  The same is not nessessarily true (IMO) for treble and midrange.

The RM40 by its very design is best listened too in a larger room at distances of 12 or more feet.  I like to listen nearfield (and I assume others might also be at a lesser distance) which causes the midwoofer to lose a bit of "impact and weight" so this tweak addresses that issue and allows a more nearfield position.

Later...

I just got back in and had time to play a couple more of my Reference Cuts and although I know Saturday morning power is always "cleaner" and stronger, this tweak is really working.

Listening to a Violin Solo "Alberto Erede" suggested by one of my clients, was breathtaking.  This one will probably be on my "Classical Reference CD".

Then a Bass Guitar Solo by Dean Peer (of Lord's Tundra) has NEVER been so tight, crisp and impactful.

Then SRV's "Tin Pan Alley".  There are several places where the drummer hits the Tom's, and WOW, what impact.  My daughters cat even jumped.  I could feel it strongly in the sofa.

Then Dire Straits - "Private Investigations"  same thing the impact of the Tom Toms was tight, dry and "physical".

But more than that.. It seemed liked this new tweak made a much greater portion of the frequency spectrum more...... listenable at higher volumes.

That is, it seemed to "fill in" portions that weren't there before which called attention to other frequencies. :D  :D

And I should mention one more time that it also seemed to "fill in" a portion of the soundstage, that in my room, and in my listening postition, was not noticed before and that is the upper right and left corners of the soundstage.

I am now hearing sounds (only when they are present) in those areas :o

So if you have RM40s and listen rather nearfield, go to your garage basement, or closet and find a couple pieces of wood or other very stiff material that you can place on the top of the speaker and about 8-10" can be advanced out over the front edge of the speaker.

Put something heavy on top so it doesn't fall off and crank the volume knob a bit, and listen to something familiar.

Let me know what you hear. 8)

JoshK

RM40 Tweak You won't beleive
« Reply #7 on: 18 Aug 2003, 01:55 pm »
This is an easy enough tweak, and I fit the bill for nearfield listening with mid-woofer up top.  I have some really heavy 1" x 16" x 24" acrylic pieces that I will use.  They are pretty darn heavy, but maybe the fact that they are clear with impeded less visually so my SO won't complain as much.   Can always take them off when not listening.

John Casler

RM40 Tweak You won't beleive
« Reply #8 on: 18 Aug 2003, 06:58 pm »
Quote from: JoshK
This is an easy enough tweak, and I fit the bill for nearfield listening with mid-woofer up top.  I have some really heavy 1" x 16" x 24" acrylic pieces that I will use.  They are pretty darn heavy, but maybe the fact that they are clear with impeded less visually so my SO won't complain as much.   Can always take them off when not listening.


Hi Josh,

Those sound (excuse the pun :nono: ) perfect.  I have been trying other materials and found that even a couple Vinyl Record albums with a little added weight to allow a 8" over the edge advancement seem to work.

I feel like something with a little more "weight" and subtance like your acrylic pieces offer the best material.  I also like an acoustically slippery material that is rather non-absorbant.  That way you don't get any "filtering" or absorbing of any of the frequencies.

 I found:

1) Increased presence of "impact"
2) More sonic energy coming from the upper left and right corners of the soundstage
3) A bit more mid/high energy when standing and walking around
4) Also it seemed to change the overall sound of "Other Room" listening, (you know when you are in the other room listening)

Although I don't perceive it as a negative, the center image might have "grown" a couple inches higher.

I'd be interested in your feedback.

lkosova

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RM40 Tweak You won't beleive
« Reply #9 on: 19 Aug 2003, 02:39 am »
John,

Are you sure you were not smoking something while listening to Hendrix????

the problem is that this actually makes sense. Why not do it with the surrounds also???

Good thing my speakers will be behind material!!

Larry Kosova

John Casler

RM40 Tweak You won't beleive
« Reply #10 on: 19 Aug 2003, 04:10 pm »
Quote from: lkosova
John,

Are you sure you were not smoking something while listening to Hendrix????

the problem is that this actually makes sense. Why not do it with the surrounds also???

Good thing my speakers will be behind material!!

Larry Kosova


Hey Larry,

Regarding Hendrix, yeah the first time I heard him at Max's Farm I might have been "in the spirit", but not in the last 25 years.  :smoke: :nono:

With Hendrix on VMPS, enhancements are not needed. :mrgreen:

As far as surrounds, this tweak is basically to help direct and blend the midbass woofer, and reduce ceiling bounce, in speakers that have that woofer mounted high, like the RM40 and the FF series.

It is also for those who listen more nearfield, to acheive an earlier/closer integration of the Midbass. 8)

John Casler

Hot Rodded RM40s Tweaks are coming
« Reply #11 on: 20 Aug 2003, 11:32 pm »
:flame: Hot Rodddddded RM40 Tweaks are coming.


And... Popah's gotta brand new "beard"?

Yes a new Beard tweak for the 626. 8)

Coming soon to an AudioCircle near you.

audiochef

new tweak
« Reply #12 on: 27 Aug 2003, 01:24 pm »
John, you are the tweakiest. My peers think I'm a lunatic with my tweaks and believe me ,I have my share but they work and so long as they work and  and kill the asthetics ,it will be utilized. Please post pictures of this knew trick.
                         Much appreciated, Stan

JoshK

RM40 Tweak You won't beleive
« Reply #13 on: 27 Aug 2003, 01:41 pm »
J.C. (just wanted to say that!),

Got a chance to try out your supertweak last night by placing the acrylic pieces on top of my RM40's with about 10" overhanging the front of the baffles.  This did indeed make a very positive improvement!  Good find!

I find that I noticed a bass bump is smoothed out some (probably ceiling bounce) and I had much more texture to the midbass (more midbass or flatter midbass).  I really liked this tweak.  I did it and said nothing to my wife waiting for her to notice and ask what I was doing.  So far she didn't notice at all and I consider this a good thing.  The transparent heavy acrylic is a very good material for this application I think in more than one way!  Maybe I should start selling acrylic pieces for this purpose!  :lol:  J/K of course.   Your explanation for why it works makes a lot of sense to me based on what I heard (I didn't read till after to not bias my opinion but I heard mostly the same).  

I did notice a bit of an improvement in soundstage depth as a biproduct.  Don't remember if you noticed this or not.

Horsehead

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RM40 Tweak You won't beleive
« Reply #14 on: 27 Aug 2003, 02:49 pm »
Hey Josh- where did you get the acrylic pieces from or were they "from" something?  You should also try the "foam" tweak- works very well.

JoshK

RM40 Tweak You won't beleive
« Reply #15 on: 27 Aug 2003, 03:00 pm »
actually I found it in the trash room of my apartment from some weird 70's style cabinet.  It had these 1" thick 12x24" acrylic sides.  I ended up using hte cabinet without these sides for tool organization and the acrylic pieces I was going to use for projects but this is a good usage!  The foam thing I am not so sure about for cosmetic reasons.  I like the natural cherry face of my speakers too much.

PLMONROE

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RM40 Tweak You won't beleive
« Reply #16 on: 28 Aug 2003, 06:36 pm »
MDF works wonders too. I purchased two 10 X 24 pieces of it at Ace Hardware finished in oak as shelving, so it looks good too.
Paul

Horsehead

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RM40 Tweak You won't beleive
« Reply #17 on: 28 Aug 2003, 07:26 pm »
I actually remembered I had some old Room Tune Deluxe Just-a-Rack shelves in my attic in dark granite. They are about 2" thick MDF.  I tried this tweak and it does work.  Mine are over hanging about 8 inches and it is working well.  I just bought some cement squares from the gravel yard for $2 to mass load the top of the shelf.  Let's see- with the foam lapels, granite shelves, and cement blocks, I must say my RM40s look rather unique.  Brian should adopt this design slap some Ferrari paint over everything and charge $50,000.  It sure sounds like $50K. What do you think B?  I'll try to post some pictures of all the tweaks in my album.

John Casler

RM40 Tweak You won't beleive
« Reply #18 on: 28 Aug 2003, 07:56 pm »
Hey Guys, I'm not done yet.

As promised I have the "Hot Rodded" RM40 :flame:

I have an additional Bass Director, I'm fooling with, but this is for the "low Bass"  for those who have their Speakers well out into the room causing a lightness in the low bass.

So with the Lapels, the Mid Bass Sonic Director and the Low Bass Sonic Director, my RM40s look like they're headed for the moon, but they sound great.

Again I just want to play with it a bit more.

God, I hope I don't turn into Chuckie :lol:  :lol:

jasonc

RM40 Tweak You won't beleive
« Reply #19 on: 28 Aug 2003, 10:51 pm »
Hi John,
Are you ready to provide the details on the "bearded" stand tweak..?