Considering a few DACs in the ~500ish range. Help with some questions?

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crazyface

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Hi!

I'm trying to build my first proper audio system.  So far, my source has been my awful onboard soundcard in my PC (ALC888DD).  I'm trying to buy a DAC that will last me a good 6-10 years before I'll feel the need to upgrade...since that's about how long it will be before I've got any money to burn again (starting college soon).  I enjoy a musical experience that puts me in the midst of an enveloping soundscape, where I can focus-in on any performer (or musical element) that captures my curiosity, while, if I choose not to focus, I can take in the whole of the performance as an "experience" - without missing any dynamic impact or involving detail.  If I had to sum it all up in a few words, I would say: I want to appreciate the totality of every musical element - individually and together.

At this point, my plan for a system follows thusly:
PC source -> USB (or) Non-Upsampled Digital-Out to DAC -> Headphone Amplifier -> Headphones -> My ear-holes -> Brain

Because I listen with headphones and not speakers (more convenient for upcoming living arrangements, and all my headphones are better than my only set of speakers [Bose, about as large as watermelons, about a decade old]), I reason that my source should emphasize dynamic impact and soundscape (what headphones typically lack because they can't create the force of speakers).  I've got a range of headphones (ER4S, Grado 225, Ergo 2's), and plan to get one electrostatic pair to round off the collection - so I'm not using little cheap earbuds or anything like that.  :)  So, my thinking is that my source should emphasize dynamics and soundstage, and my headphones will take care of details, seperation, etc., through (if nothing else) their more intimate nature than speakers.  So to put that emphasis on dynamics and soundstage, I've reasoned that I ought to get a tube-based DAC, and, moreover, if it can be Non-Oversampling, so much the better.

Is this good logic so far?  Am I correct on the whole A-Gets-Me-B rationale?  Let me know if I'm goofing it up!

So the best I've found in my price range (according to reviews), to achieve the kind of sonic quality I want, is the Paradisea+.  I've also heard good things about the  modified DAC-60's.  The only direct comparison between the two that I've found was on this forum, and it said that basically the Paradisea+ has the edge on the DAC60 variants in dynamics, but the DAC-60's have the edge in detail/clarity (the standard difference between NOS and Upsampling, right?)  But the DAC-60 is still the only Tube-based DAC I've found in my price-range apart from the Paradisea, so I still consider it (because I reason that, through a tube-based DAC, I can work on achieving the kind of dynamics I need to in order to compensate for the innate deficiencies of headphones.)

Does this sound right so far?  If I'm not considering pieces of equipment well-suited to my tastes, let me know what mistakes you think I'm making - please!

At this point what really will make my decision is the following concern:

Because I want to use this DAC in my system for many years, and because I work on music/DVD projects that REQUIRE me to be able to listen to/work with DVD-quality audio (24-bit, up to 192khz), I'm unsure of whether I should buy the Paradisea+, because I have been told it can only handle audio up to 24-bit 96khz through its SPDIF, and only up to 16-bit 44khz through its USB connection (which is how I would prefer to connect it.)  Is this accurate?  I don't want to be stuck with a piece of equipment that will prohibit me from working in the formats I need to - or, moreover, prevent me from listening to the new up-and-coming formats of digital audio, which can go up to 192khz.  So I'm worried that if I buy the Paradisea+, it will limit me from doing work I need to do, from hearing music I want to experience - and, when the time comes to upgrade, I will find no-one who will want to buy it from me!

Are these concerns legitimate?  Have I been misinformed?  What do you think?

So in the end, if I feel certain that the Paradisea+ will serve me well in my projects (with DVD-quality audio) and my future music collection (up to 192khz), I will get the Paradisea+.  Otherwise, it seems like I have no choice other than to get one of the modded DAC-60's, which, because it operates at 24-bit 192khz, is certain to support the upcoming formats.

What are your thoughts?  I'm open to all kinds of suggestions - alternatives, workarounds, etc.  Let me know!
In the worst-case scenario - if neither of these DACs are going to get me basically what I'm after, and I'd have to spend a lot more to get what I really want - then I'll just buy an under-$200 DAC, like the Monica2 or the Beresford TC-7510.  But that would require me to start a whole new thread, wouldn't it?

Thanks again!

jon_010101

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For computer audio especially, I find the new Stello DA-100 very appealing.  It has USB, coaxial, and optical inputs. 

It does NOT have a tube output stage (which I don't really care for -- I have tube pre/power amps and they are enough trouble!). 

It does NOT do 192k, but it does 24/96, which is crucial (and more-useful than 192k, IMHO -- mixing/editing in 192k is very computationally-intensive). 

But, they do make a matching HP100 headphone amplifier.  And, it looks like a very "clean" implementation.  I have not heard it, but will likely buy an HP100/DA100 set unheard for office use in the future.  Possibly with their S100, too, if I can get away with a pair of speakers in my new office.

If 192k is needed, you may be better off going for a pro-audio style DAC like a Benchmark (and that still doesn't do 192k for USB, neither does the Apogee Mini-DAC AFAIK).  Non-oversampling DACs are appealing for music listening, but if you are interested in "projects", I think that a conventional DAC may be a wiser investment on the basis of being a closer reference to what other people might have.
« Last Edit: 11 Jun 2007, 11:39 pm by jon_010101 »

gongos

There is/was an Empirical Audio modded Ack! Dack! 2 on Audiogon for $625. You'd be hard pressed to find a better DAC for $2000. It's everything you'll need and want.

Dan Driscoll

I have a DAC-62 (modded DAC-60) and I love it, the sound quality is excellent. But if 24/192 is an absolute requirement, I'm afraid the DAC-60/62 is off the table, it accepts sample rates only to 96KHz. To get 24/192 you have to step up to the DAC-68.


eric the red

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Here's a Paradisea for 410 clams if you go that route
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlconv&1186883637

lonewolfny42

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  • Posts: 16917
  • Speakers....What Speakers ?
Here's a Paradisea for 410 clams if you go that route
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlconv&1186883637
Same seller....pair of Meadowlark Swift speakers.....$400.00  :wink:
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?spkrfull&1186884856

eric the red

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1738
Here's a Paradisea for 410 clams if you go that route
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlconv&1186883637
Same seller....pair of Meadowlark Swift speakers.....$400.00  :wink:
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?spkrfull&1186884856
Somebody's going to get a pair of nice speakers for a great price-NY pick up (nudge nudge)
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1002/meadowlarkswift.htm
If that seller will ship to Oregon for a reasonable price-this Meadowlark fan is buying 'em :D
Sorry, now back to the DACs...
« Last Edit: 13 Jun 2007, 06:40 am by eric the red »

lonewolfny42

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 16917
  • Speakers....What Speakers ?
Here's a Paradisea for 410 clams if you go that route
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlconv&1186883637
Same seller....pair of Meadowlark Swift speakers.....$400.00  :wink:
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?spkrfull&1186884856
Somebody's going to get a pair of nice speakers for a great price-NY pick up (nudge nudge)
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1002/meadowlarkswift.htm
No nudging....I've got no more room...but it's a VG deal.... 8)

daz_bike

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 51
For DIY the RAKK Dac MkII is very good. 

Not hard to construct.