[1000a]

any experience using these 2" or the 4" for first reflection points, high and mid obsorption or (opions on them), I am not considering them for bass issues.

They also have a DIY page with 4 types of ridgid FB panels, buy 1 or 6 at a time, are these good prices for such product.

http://www.atsacoustics.com/cat--ATS-Acoustic-Panels--100.html

thanks in advance

[Rob Babcock]

Their prices are definatey the lowest out there, but there's a couple things that concern me.  First, the absorption reports they publish shows poor absorption under 150 hz but climbing absorbtion at higher frequencies.  They have a composite number that's an average of all freqs listed, but that's not very helpful to the user shopping for a bass trap.  And the numbers lead to me think they use unfaced rock wool with no membrane to reflect some of the highs.  This might lead in a panel that sucks all the sound up, not just bass, resulting in an overly dead room.  A ways back I emailed ATS a couple times with questions about their traps and got to response (in all fairness I didn't take the time to call, they may well have answered my questions).  Even if you aren't concerned about bass, most situations call for broadband absorption as not to leave a room to flat yet boomy in the bass.

ATS also applies a wooden back to their traps, which reduces the effectiveness in the bass region.  They will modify the trap to an open back design for about $5 per panel, as well as adding fire resistant coating to the fabric for a few bucks more.  I guess omitting these features on the basic panels is a way to keep prices down, and even adding them the panels are reasonably priced.

I can't speak to the honesty or reliability of the company, just don't know, so I'm just speculating here.   My hunch is that they'd be okay for 1st reflection points or deadening the front wall in an LEDE room, but would probably be less effective than RealTraps or GIK panels as corner bass absorbers.

[TomW16]

I'd also be interested in hearing people's thoughts and experiences as well since my basement/home theater is getting closer to being started (hopefully in the next 4 months or so) and the OC 703 & 705 prices add up quickly.  If the ATS products have similar performance, it does seem like a good deal. 

Although I have read much about the Real Traps and GIK panels, I will be forced to go the DIY route due to budget constraints.  I am very grateful to those that have contributed to this Acoustics community as it has educated me in this often overlooked topic.

Thanks!

Tom

P.S.  I am likely going to use R38 insulation between the ceiling joists at the first reflection points on the ceiling since it is readily available at my local Home Depot.  I will cover those areas with acoustically transparent fabric so that it blends into the ceiling.  Thanks Ethan for the tip on your website!

[1000a]

they'd be okay for 1st reflection points

That's about the only way I thought of using their panels, they are definitely not in the league with Ethan's stuff or the GIK stuff.

I think I'm just gonna get a couple of boxes of the FB panels and DIY so I can add the corners they seem to cut.  Are their prices on the rockboard and 703 stuff good, anybody know?

[Lkdog]

Actually their products are excellent.
If you wish to do bass trapping-you will need much more than these panels, however.
I use for first reflections and rear absorption behind me.
I use other methods for bass traps in corners.

[1000a]

Thanks that's kinda what I was hoping, reflections- done put it up.  Still may DIY so I can use the same burlap color I get locally.  But you definitely confirmed my thinking, so good product for that job.

Could help a lot of newbies, start on their room treatment road with a simple thing, should not be over whelming to people.

What thickness did you get and did you get the backless ones, I was thinking just for 1st reflections backed 2" would be good but not sure?

[Rob Babcock]

I would point out that it would be hard to even DIY for what ATS charges.  Their prices are really exceptional!  Their stuff looks pretty competantly built and the appearance is neat and professional.  With the open-back option they'd probably be a good option to rolling your own, at least for use in 1st reflection points or creating the dead end of an LEDE room.

1000a- the main use of a backless design is to increase the efficacy as a bass trap.  This allows the wave to be attenuated as it pass thru the trap, then further attenuated as it reflects off the wall and passes back thru.  If you have a back on the trap the bass is reflected off that instead of losing power against the back wall and thru the air gap.  The thicker ones will of course absorb more at all frequencies.

[bpape]

1000

Definitely get the fire retardant.

Tom

703 can be had for less.  Also, be very careful with leaving open joists. It's great for absorbtion but also kills any hopes of isolation from sound entering from the outside.  Higher noise floor - lower apparent dynamic range.

Bryan

[TomW16]

Thanks Bryan for the comment on the open joists.  I was originally going to isolate the home theater but when I researched it thoroughly I realized that it is a much bigger job than originally assumed.  Pot lights (yes, gotta have those for the wife) and a couple of door ways would be difficult to get air tight.  Since isolation and absorption seem to be at odds with each other, I felt that absorption within the room was more important for me.

The ceiling in my basement (where the home theater will reside) is just under 8 feet without sheetrock.  Any ideas regarding absorbing the first reflection points on the ceiling without taking up too much height?  That is why I thought that fiberglass between the joists was a fairly good compromise.

Thanks.

Tom

[rcarlton]

I've used the ATS panels with the open backs. Well constructed, very quick delivery times . I have since went with DIY (703 purchased from ATS). Something about making something with your own hands makes a bigger difference.

[1000a]

got 12 panels on the way to DIY

[bpape]

Tom.

Isolation and absorbtion are not at all at odds with each other.  You just isolate first, then add absorbtion, diffusion to the inside of the sealed shell.  Yes, isolation is not a trivial thing to accomplish but you can do a considerable amount of it relatively easily.

For instance, can lights - just build a box from MDF in the ceiling and mount the can light in that.  Seal the hole where the romex enters with caulk.  Caulk the bottom of the box when you put up the drywall.  As good as no cans?  No.  Better than 8-10 6-8" holes in the ceiling?  Absolutely.  Doors, simple weatherstripping and a rubber seal on the bottoms aren't perfect but help a lot.  Walls, 2nd layer of drywall - Green Glue between layers if you can afford it.

Bryan

[TomW16]

Bryan, now you've got me thinking about isolation again and I'm not sure that I am pleased about it.   My fear is that I would go to some expense (green glue, second layer of drywall, etc.) only to find out that I missed something and the result is less than stellar.  My statement of isolation and absorption being "at odds" with each other was potentially too strong.  What I meant was that bass frequencies are typically a primary issue with sound systems, either home theater or 2-channel, and by isolating the room, the bass frequencies generated within the room cannot escape and, therefore, can become even more problematic. 

As an aside, if no sheet rock is put on the ceiling, the "top" of the room is the floor above at least for acoustical calculations.  If sheet rock is added to the ceiling joists, I assume that the "top" of the room then becomes where the sheet rock is added thereby changing the room dimensions, correct?

Our air conditioning condenser had a problem this past weekend and the technician mentioned that the fan to circulate air throughout the house should be on at all times.  We had previously set it to "auto" but the tech mentioned that continuous circulation is beneficial.  What this means for my basement home theater is that isolation is coming to the foreground again since the furnace fan is not terribly quite. 

Soooo..., I'll revisit isolation again and proceed thoroughly when construction occurs to ensure that I don't inadvertently circumvent all of the isolation work.

Thanks again for all of the great information.

Tom