[sts9fan]

So if you pay $300 for something you expect something to break within a few years?

[BobM]

Well lets see. I guess I'm fairly happy with the way my system sounds, and have been for quite some time.

My speakers have gone through some DIY revisions, but were originally bought in 1994
My SS Amp is about as old, but I have a newer tube amp I swap into.
My preamp is perhaps 10 years old now.
Turntable's about 7-8 (but the tonearm and cartridge are newer).
My digital stuff is also way modded but the original manufacture date is about 2000.
On the other hand I also have "old" stuff I'm using, like a mid 1980's vintage NAD 3155 integrated amp that I recapped this winter. It sounds marvelous again! And a Teac 4 track reel to reel (the top end rolloff is more due to the age of the tapes than the tape deck, but Oh!, how musical).

So why shouldn't good equipment last a long time? I never really understood the need to change things just for the sake of changing, unless you're not satisfied with the overall synergy/sound. Hunting for grails is just expensive and wrought with unobtanium.

Enjoy,
Bob

[bpape]

If I pay $300 for a toothbrush, I expect it to last a long time.  If I pay $300 for a car, yeah, probably something is going to go wrong.  It's not a pure dollar amount - it's the cost vs the functionality and usability.

Bryan

[Dan Banquer]

Well lets see. I guess I'm fairly happy with the way my system sounds, and have been for quite some time.

My speakers have gone through some DIY revisions, but were originally bought in 1994
My SS Amp is about as old, but I have a newer tube amp I swap into.
My preamp is perhaps 10 years old now.
Turntable's about 7-8 (but the tonearm and cartridge are newer).
My digital stuff is also way modded but the original manufacture date is about 2000.
On the other hand I also have "old" stuff I'm using, like a mid 1980's vintage NAD 3155 integrated amp that I recapped this winter. It sounds marvelous again! And a Teac 4 track reel to reel (the top end rolloff is more due to the age of the tapes than the tape deck, but Oh!, how musical).

So why shouldn't good equipment last a long time? I never really understood the need to change things just for the sake of changing, unless you're not satisfied with the overall synergy/sound. Hunting for grails is just expensive and wrought with unobtanium.

Enjoy,
Bob

Well designed solid state should go for about 15 years before you will have to replace the electrolytic capacitors. The 15 years is an average as heat and on time will cause that to vary. Electromechanical parts such as relays & switches will vary depending on initial quality and usage. To date there is no known time limit for decay on the actual transistors, or integrated circuits. Then again, as happens so often on consumer audio forums, someone with lesser experience and education will be happy to tell you different.
  d.b.

[Bob in St. Louis]

If I pay $300 for a toothbrush, I expect it to last a long time.  If I pay $300 for a car, yeah, probably something is going to go wrong.  It's not a pure dollar amount - it's the cost vs the functionality and usability.

Well said Bryan. Very true.

sts - What did SD say after you asked them nicely about your issue? If I remember correctly, the offer they made was above and beyond anything written in the warranty policy. Dude, things happen. Sell the device, or have them fix it. It's not that big a deal. Sure it's sucks, but things like this happen to the best of us. I had a $1000 Harman Kardon receiver that failed out of warranty less than a year ago. They really stepped up to the plate. Turns out the part that failed was a common problem but was "unreplaceable" so the unit was deemed unrepairable. They sent me a replacement unit that retailed for $1500 at no cost to me. THAT is above and beyond! But I've also had items fail just out of warranty and the response I got was "You're screwed". You win some, you lose some.

Bob

[sts9fan]

Honestly this was just an organic offshoot of that silly thread.  I am just interested in thoughts on the topic.  It once again shows the twisted sense of value audiophiles have.  If JoeAverage pays $300 for a cd player etc I think they expect more. 
To put the other issue to rest they are also going ABOVE and BEYOND what was promised.

[PhilNYC]

I think the warranty period suggests the longevity of a product. The length of the warranty is the manufacturer's assurance that the product should be trouble-free for at least the stated period of time.

This is not completely true.  The length of the warranty is also influenced by a manufacturer's ability to source parts in the cases where they need to support repairs.  If, for example, they don't think they can source a particular part after a year or so, then they won't warranty it for longer than that. 

[bpape]

Agreed.  If you pay $300 for a CD player (when you can get a CD player that does the same things for $49) then there's an expectation of better quality and longer life.  When you pay $300 for something that has no equivalent for under $1000, then you're buying the bottom of the spectrum.

[GBB]

To date there is no known time limit for decay on the actual transistors, or integrated circuits. Then again, as happens so often on consumer audio forums, someone with lesser experience and education will be happy to tell you different.

Dan,
I hate to disagree with you at the risk of being labeled inexperienced and uneducated, but there are very well known failure modes in integrated circuits and most manufacturers only guarantee their parts for a fixed period of time.  Typically, commercial parts are rated for 100KPOH (100,000 power on hours) at 85C which translates to roughly 10 years of continuous operation.
In fact the engineers know the tradeoffs between reliability and performance very well and push things just to this edge.  Take a look at Electromigration in wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration.  Two other primary wear out mechanisms are hot electron degradation of the gate insulator and TDDB (time dependent dielectric breakdown) of the gate insulator.

---Gary

[Dan Banquer]

To date there is no known time limit for decay on the actual transistors, or integrated circuits. Then again, as happens so often on consumer audio forums, someone with lesser experience and education will be happy to tell you different.

Dan,
I hate to disagree with you at the risk of being labeled inexperienced and uneducated, but there are very well known failure modes in integrated circuits and most manufacturers only guarantee their parts for a fixed period of time.  Typically, commercial parts are rated for 100KPOH (100,000 power on hours) at 85C which translates to roughly 10 years of continuous operation.
In fact the engineers know the tradeoffs between reliability and performance very well and push things just to this edge.  Take a look at Electromigration in wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration.  Two other primary wear out mechanisms are hot electron degradation of the gate insulator and TDDB (time dependent dielectric breakdown) of the gate insulator.

---Gary

My apologies Gary; I was referring only to the typical audio consumer electronics, and the temperatures that they normally find themselves in. I don't think 85C is really normal for home use; do you? 50C would be more a realistic upper limit, and that should be rare.
             d.b.
P.S. There is one failure I mode I've forgotton about. The laser diode pick ups in CD players. These seem to last on the average of about  6 to 7 years before they need to be replaced. To date I have no explanation as to why.

[sts9fan]

 When you pay $300 for something that has no equivalent for under $1000, then you're buying the bottom of the spectrum.

I disagree that it is the bottom.  Logitech I think has something for ~$50, Apple airport extreme is <$200 and Roku has three players under $200.

[JLM]

The warrantee period is expected to catch all manufacturer's defects.  Many failures occur during initial burn/break-in.  Later on the reason for failure shifts towards abuse or the above stated wear-out/burn-out factors. 

Transferrable warrantees make more sense nowadays as buyers/sellers don't have a loyality or relationship to base the transaction upon in the first place.  OTOH my observation would indicate that equipment is treated best by the 1st owner and worst by the last owner.

[konut]

Everything is a compromise. The price charged is influenced by many factors not the least of which is the failure rate of the specific components involved. If manufacturers expect to stay in business they must balance the warranty period with the failure rate and availability of the components they use. If they extend the warranty past a certain point, they will not maintain the ability to stay in business. Would you be willing to pay a higher price for an extended warranty? You must have noticed that the companies cited in this thread, Bryston and Classe, are charging premium prices for the long warranties on their gear. Are you willing to extend the opportunity to the manufacturer, of doing the right thing, by sending the defective unit back and surprising you by not charging you, instead of complaining in a public forum about how you feel shortchanged? If the manufacturer is out of business because they made their warranty period too long, you wouldn't have that op poutunity, and chances are a third party repair would cost more, if available at all.

You pays your money, you takes your chance. Twas ever thus.

[bpape]

Show me another product that has the connectivity choice, ease of use, small form factor, full remote control, ability to play flac, wav, and mp3, full unlimited playlists, internet radio connectivity, and the ability to be modded to replace big dollar players for less than $300. 

Roku ain't it.  Look at all the threads here and at other forums with all of the issues there have been with those players.  THAT product has reliability issues that appear to me at least to be more than just one here and there.  When you see that many, sure looks like either a design flaw, substandard parts, substandard construction, or pushing the components right up to their edge of failure as a normal operating state.  Apple?  Well, I don't see all the features there at all.  And by the way, Logitech owns Slim Devices now.

Let's be realistic here, the SB costs less than 1 interconnect in many systems.  Certainly less than a turntable cartridge that you KNOW is going to need to be reworked in a few years.  This IS a bargain component.  The Transporter is the top of the line piece for now.

Another perfect example of this kind of product is the Oppo player.  For < $200 it gives you upconversion of video to 1080, a decent sounding output stage, and a pretty good history of reliability.  If one breaks, oh well.  I can buy another one and another one and still spend less than a Denon or Pioneer or Ayre, or whatever else you want to think of that really won't perform any better (if as well on the video side).   For that, you're going to have a failure now and then - just the breaks.  If you're one of the 98% of people who's SB lasts for several years with no issues, then you're just more money ahead.

Bryan