[Tish]

Hi All,  I'm new here and have a question. I cant seem to get my Chime DAC to lock onto my Rega Planet2000, I also tried a friends Rega Planet non 2000 version and no go. So I borrowed a friends denon 2200 dvd player and it worked just fine. Heres what happens, when I turn on the unit all the lights go green except the one on the right when facing the unit, and no sound comes out of the speakers. Is there a incompatibility issue with Rega players?   Please help as I really would like to use this DAC!  Thanks,          Tish

[orpheus]

It sounds like you need to eliminate more variables before you can know what is wrong.  Before anything else, make sure that the connectors are firmly pressed onto the RCA's.


#1- I haven't owned a Rega CD player, but some CD players give you the option to turn off the digital out because if you aren't using it, having the digital out running can adversely effect the sound of the player.  Check the manual to see if the digital out is defeatable.  Also check to make sure that the Rega is outputting 16 bit/ 44.1 khz and not a higher, upsampled frequency.  If the player is upsampling, the Chime won't read it because the Chime is optimized for only 16 bit/44.1khz.

#2- Switch the digital inputs on the Chime.  There are two to try on the back, and switch the selector switch on the front.  You might want to mute your preamp while you do this, or turn the volume all the way down.  The light on the right hand side of the Chime confirms that there is a connection, and the light on the left hand side confirms that there is a signal.  If you aren't getting a light on the right hand side, try switching to one of the other inputs.  There was a silk screening error in some of the earlier Chimes, the USB and SPDIF inputs were mislabeled.

#3- If you can, get another DAC and check to confirm that the Rega is outputting a digital signal. 

So, it's either the Chime or the Rega, but since you established that the DVD player would work, it's probably the digital out on the Rega, which is either off or upsampling.

Good luck, let us know how it goes-
Aaron.

[Tish]

Hi Aaron,  I tried most of the stuff that you mentioned,except for trying another DAC. I have looked for a switch that defeats the digital out on my Rega and cannot find one, nor does the manual mention it.The manual says the digital sampling frequency is 44.1 khz. I did not know that the Chime won't work with upsampling decks, I have never used an outboard DAC before and my knowledge of them is limited. Is there a way that I can check the digital out with a HT receiver? I have a Denon 2803 and an Outlaw HT receiver,or is there a way to measure with a voltmeter? If not, I'll have to see if there is a store that has a DAC and will let me test the Rega on it.   Thanks,  Tish

[orpheus]

You don't need to get another DAC to check the signal, you already have one in your Outlaw.  Provided that the specs on yours are the same as the receiver currently listed on the Outlaw website, you have a digital input on your receiver.  Hook the Rega up to that, and then do whatever you need to do to the receiver to get it to take the digital 44.1khz input from the Rega.  If there is a setting for only 44.1khz, try that and see it still reads, since that is the way the Chime is set up.

Try that and see what happens.

I haven't measured digital output with a voltmeter, but you could.  If you are getting voltage, then at least you know that there is some output.  Did you buy the Rega new, or used?

-Aaron.

[dnewman]

Upsampling per se isn't the issue: many CD player's upsample and the result of
that is reflected in the player's analog output.  But at the same time, they present
the raw 16bit / 44.1 KHz Red Book data stream at the digital outputs.  That's the
data stream off of the CD itself, before any upsampling, oversampling, or whatever
else you care to name.

So, the question here you want to ask the Rega manufacturer is, "What data stream
is being presented at the coaxial digital output"?  (The black RCA jack on the back of
your Rega and labelled as being a digital output.)  If it isn't the raw 16bit / 44.1 KHz
data stream from the audio CD, then it isn't consumable by the HagDac board within
your Chime.

Regards,
Dan

[hagtech]

With the left LED green, the Rega is putting out a valid signal.  And it is getting recieved.  However, with the right LED red, that means either the signal is not 16/44.1k or that the word clock is more than +/-100ppm from nominal redbook.

I'd be suprised if it is the latter.  I've only seen this problem on some PCs (via USB).

I'm not familiar with operation of a Planet, so not sure what options / controls are available.

jh

[Tish]

Hi All,   Thanks so much for the help!  Here is were I'm at now, I took both my Planet2000 and Chime over to my friends house(the one with the pre2000 Planet. We tried both cd players and could not get either one to work with the Chime,then we hooked up a Denon 2200 combo player again just to see if the Chime was working as I was begining to have my doubts! Well it worked just fine,so then we tried both cd players in his HT system and ran the digital out on the Rega's to the digital in on his Harman Kardon HT receiver and music came out of both cd player's(but not at the same time as we tried one and then the other). So the digital outs on both cd players are fine,but I still can't use my new Chime(I bought it used, but its new to me) and I'm really bumbed out!!  The manual for the Rega2000 says 44.1khz Digital Sampling Frequency, but does not say anything about 16bits, or any bits at all for that matter! I guess I'll e-mail the Rega factory and see what the bits are.  Again thanks for the help, Tish

[Tish]

Hi All again,    Well, its 24bit.   Now what?  I can't spend too much more right now on stereo equipment, is there some way to fix this without having to buy another cd player? What about Monarchy DIP, or some other interface would that fix anything? Thanks, Tish

[dnewman]

That means that they are not outputting "Red Book", the Philips & Sony standard
for Compact Disc Digital Audio.  (And which cost $50,000 for a copy of circa 1980
if you happened to be developing hardware or software!)  Unfortunately, Red Book
is what many DACs, the Chime included, expect.  (Jim, correct me if I'm wrong here.)
It sounds like the Rega Planet wants something akin to a "dAC" -- something with
more emphasis on the conversion to analog stage and less emphasis on the handling
of the digital data itself.  That is, it sounds like the Rega is doing its brand of
16 to 24 bit upsampling and expecting to pass that feed to something which jumps
right into conversion to analog (perhaps with some reclocking to reduce jitter).
However, many DACs expect to do the upsampling bit also and therefore expect
the raw Red Book input.  That's digital to analog conversion too, just with additional
work on the digital end. I doubt there's anything you can do to pass such a 24 bit
feed to the Chime without serious modification to the HagDac daughter card itself.

Given how the Rega Planet appears to work, it almost sounds as though the Rega
philosophy is at odds with using a high end DAC: both expect to do lots of heavy
lifting as regards the digital data stream.  BUT, you only need one unit in the chain
doing that work, certainly not two.   If you like the Rega's digital to analog conversion,
but you want tube warmth (i.e., the fullness of 2nd order harmonics as opposed to
solid state 3rd order harmonics), then maybe what you want to do is pair your
Rega with a tube amp and/or preamp?

So what to do if you still want to use the Chime?  There's always ripping your CDs to
a lossless format and then playing them out of a USB port from a PC or a Mac.  Or
using a transport such as the SqueezeBox 3 from SlimDevices.  (IMO, that's the only
way to play CDs: let a computer rip the CD, sampling it as many times as necessary
to provide extreme confidence that the bits were read correctly, then clock the
data stream whenever you want it out of either a USB port or, in my case, out of
a SqueezeBox 3.)

Regards,
Dan

[orpheus]

I'm glad you figured out what the problem was. 

I don't know if the Monarchy would work, it might.  Do you have a laptop?  If you do, you can use the USB input on the Chime.  There are a ton of variables with Windows and a laptop, and a few for Mac, that effect the sound, so you might want to do some research.  Windows XP resamples digital audio, so you would need to use Foobar and change some settings to get it work optimally.  Since you're typing on a computer now, you would just need a usb cable and some hard drive space....

If you don't want to put a computer near your hi fi, or if it isn't possible, you could look into getting a Squeezebox, rip CD's onto your hard drive, and stream them to the Chime with the SPDIF output of the Squeezebox.

As for changing the digital output on the Rega, I don't know if that's possible.  A cheap solution would be to pick up an Oppo, or sell the Rega and get something else for a transport.  The Pioneer PD65 makes a fantastic transport, and is usually around $300 used, which is probably less than what your Planet 2000 would fetch.  If you're interested in SACD at all (which I think is a fantastic format), you could look into getting a Maranz SA8001, which is a dedicated CD/SACD player, and use that as a transport for the Chime.  It retails at $999, but can be had new for $650, and even less used.  I'm using a Marantz SA8260 as a transport right now, I haven't A/B'd it against my laptop yet, but it sounds pretty good to me so far.

I'm sorry that your new toy won't play in your current setup.  Hopefully you'll find a way to get it up and running.

-Aaron.

[Tish]

Thank you guys!!  I feel better now knowing what is going on with this DAC. Guess I'll have to do a little switching around of my components; sell the Rega and get something else. As far as using my computer goes, I have an old (10yrs) iMac hooked to dialup so I'am probably behind the times in regard to this!! I am going to start researching the best way to feed the Chime ,it seems to be finnicky about what it eats!! As far as tube warmth goes, I have tube preamp,tubeamps(biamp) tube phono stage and now a tube DAC, so I'm all nice and toasty!!    Thanks again for all the suggestions and for walking me through this,  Tish  aa

[dnewman]

Well, you're in good company with your iMac: I know plenty of well regarded folks
in the software world who still have various Kool Aid colored iMacs running in their
homes.   However. it sounds like it's time to replace that iMac with a Mac Mini or
current model iMac.   That said, your iMac should have USB and a CD ROM drive so
theory says you could experiment.  However, if it's running OS 9 (or earlier) you
probably won't have a very satisfactory experience: there's much more and better
software available for OS X, not to mention modern USB drivers....

Cheers,
Dan

[hagtech]

I remember certain hardware settings possible with the input receiver on the CHIME.  Might be a way to get it to recognize the 24 bit signal (probably just zero padded).  Need to dig through some data sheets.  I'll also see if I can find something about the Rega that can change modes to redbook.

jh

[Yoda]

Since the Chime reclocks the data (so long as it is redbook) - it shouldn't matter so much what you use as a transport?  Ie,  any device, whether it is your off the shelf dvd player or the old 1990 cd player you have in the closet that outputs 16/44.1 should give your Chime all that it could ever need?  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Tish]

Hi Yoda,   Its been some time since wev'e talked, how have you been? That is an excellent question that you have posed! I don't know ,maybe I'm just old fasioned, but I don't move along with the times very well! I didn't own a CD player until the late 90's and stubbornly played vinyl exclusivley until then. I now have about 400 CD's and about 1500 LP's and I'm finding that I listen to CD's a little more than my vinyl now, so that is why I'm upgrading my CD source at this time. My plan was to get the best DAC that I could afford (preferably tube!) and mate it with the best transport that my finances would allow. So I bought the Chime and figured that I could use my Rega(which by the way is a great sounding unit,at least in my setup!) as a transport until I could afford a better one. But after reading the suggestions of Aaron and Dan here I'm wondering if I should be considering using an Apple notebook or something of that nature, and move into the  twenty first century! I have little knowledge of digital stuff, and don't know what I should be looking for in a transport. Do transports sound different, and why? There must be a reason for expensive transports, and I'm hoping it is sound quality and not just a hoax to get us to spend more money!  Anyway it seems like I am going to be researching this stuff for a while before I make up my mind, and save some dough for MORE stereo!!!      Thanks everyone,   Tish  PS  I got an email from the importer of Rega, and he said he wrote to the designer and asked him for advice about maybe changing the output to 16bits.

[Tish]

hi again, well I just got an email from the distributer of the Rega and he wrote that the designer says it IS 16bit output! I got my figure of 24bits by looking up the Planet on audiogon in the bluebook section and there it states 24bit. So now we're back to square one.  Tish

[jcmjrt]

I've got a Chime that I built running with an ibook G4 and it's a wonderful combination. You can have ALL of your CDs available to you in lossless format so it sounds great. You make up your own playlists to fit your moods or just play at random or...you decide. You could use an ibook G4 (plenty of computing power)...maybe even a G3 but it should run OSX....and then a couple of external hard drives (one for back-up) and you can have DAYS of music at your fingertips. I'm enjoying the h*ck out of mine.

[hagtech]

I cen't figure out why the Rega and CHIME won't lock.  My only guess is that the wordclock is slightly out of spec.  The HAGDAC can only pull so far from nominal (it covers redbook plus 50%).

jh