I just compared the dAck D/A converter with the DI/O and ...

Jon L · « **Reply #20 on:** 11 Aug 2003, 07:26 pm »

What Danny says about lower noisefloor with battery is true for most components, not just DAC's. If I could, I would run all my components off battery power supplies, but that would get super cumbersome and super expensive (just look at some of the Rowland battery units)

Using battery is tricky business and has to be done right in order to avoid a downside in dynamics and slam.

My approach was to use a (now-discontinued) XS technology Strata battery-buffered pure sinewave generator for all my components. Even though this approach is not as good as each component being powered by battery, I still get an across-the board death-drop in noisefloor and disappearnce of grain.

Those interested in a "battery solution" but can't handle the idea, check out one of these units. PowerWare is another company that makes such AC devices.

randytsuch · « **Reply #21 on:** 11 Aug 2003, 11:57 pm »

Danny,
Nice review.
I heard about this dac over at AA, there are some guys that wrote good things about it on the digital board.

Guys,
on the battery issues, based on what I know about batteries and some stuff I read on this dac at AA and their website.
They recommend 4 hours of listening between charge cycles, but that has to do with battery life. The more you discharge a SLA battery between charges, the less life it will have. So, you can listen for more the 4 hours at a time, but you would sacrifice some battery life if you do that. They said you should get at least 800 charge cycles, if you run it no more than 4 hours at a time.

Website says this for charge time:
<45min after four hours use (15-20min typical);
<2hr from deep discharge.

From what I saw, the dac automatically charges the battery when you turn it off. Sounded like you leave it plugged in all the time, and it is smart enough to start charging the battery when you turn off the dac. It also sounded like the battery was not easily replaceable, so as it comes from the factory, it is not set up for having a second battery to quickly replace the first one with. If this was really an issue, you could consider buying a higher capacity battery, if it would fit.

I also noticed they use parts that appear to be close to what Scott Nixon uses, the ACK DAC uses a TDA1545T and CS8414 where Scott uses a TDA1543 and CS8412.

The TDA’s are both inexpensive Philips DAC’s, the 1543 uses a I2S input. I would think they would be pretty close, if not the same, performance wise. The CS guys are digital receivers, the CS8414 goes up to 96Khz, where the 8412 runs at 44 Khz.

My last comment is on the battery power vs power conditioning “controversy”. My take on it is if an AC powered DAC needs power conditioning to make it sound as good as the ACK DAC (and at this point it is only a theory that it would sound as good), then that becomes part of the equation. On one hand, you have a battery powered ACK DAC, and on the other hand you have a different DAC and power conditioner. You have to weigh the advantages/costs of each solution, and decide which works best for you.

My really last comment is this also comes in a kit, which I like. Website said it was not simple to build, but seems like a competent DIYer should be able to handle it. Does not sound like you want to make this your first project though.

Randy

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #22 on:** 16 Aug 2003, 10:55 pm »

All,

I've owned the dAck for over 2 months now and I absolutely love it. As far as the batteries, I think you can get them easily on www.digikey.com.
Also, digikey sells bigger versions of the same battery (more Ah's).

I also want to say that my dAck charges after 4 hours of use in under 30 minutes!

Last night I played for a little over 2 hours and it charged in 9 minutes! I rarely play music longer than 4 hours. Usually, I play for 2 hours and then have to go to bed as a long day a work awaits

I don't know if Chris Own was being conservative when he mentioned charging times, but in my experience it is not nearly as long as he states.

Well, I'll be leaving for vacation tomorrow and won't be back for a week. I'll respond to any questions and/or emails when I return.

Thanks to Danny for his review, and thanks to Chris Own for designing such an amazing product for the cost. The dAck is THE 'giant killer' in my experience (I used to own the CI VDA-1 dac and VAC-1 power supply, and I enjoy the dAck's sound much more).

-Vinnie

nature boy · « **Reply #23 on:** 17 Aug 2003, 01:27 pm »

Danny and others,

Thanks for your observations of the dAck and modified ART DI/O. I received both units last week, but was out of town on vacation. I have Wayne's MENSA audition packet with the power supply and lots of cool cables and Chris Own's dAck running 24/7 with plans for some serious listening tomorrow and Tuesday.

I'll be doing a head to head comparison of the two units with some friends coming over this weekend for a listen.

These DAC's represent two very different approaches, I'll let my ears be the judge in my system It is nice to have such a choice of great DAC products for those of us on an equipment budget.

Later.

NB

Danny Richie · « **Reply #24 on:** 17 Aug 2003, 06:55 pm »

I got Wanyne's power supply and his data link in last week for the DI/O and have been putting lots of burn in time on them.

He sent me an in-line Bybee filter for the data link also.

The noise floor got noticeably quieter right away as it has been burning in.

I can't wait to have the time to sit down and A/B the two units all over again.

I will also A/B Wayne's data link cable and the do an in and out report on the Bybee filter.

audiojerry · « **Reply #25 on:** 18 Aug 2003, 02:33 pm »

Thanks for offering to put in the effort to compare, Danny and Nature Boy

toxteth ogrady · « **Reply #26 on:** 23 Aug 2003, 03:36 am »

Hi Danny

I was wondering if you've had the chance yet to compare the Ack! dAck to the Mensa with the upgraded power supply. I've pretty much made up my mind as to what I'm going to purchase but I'd like to know what comments you have after spending more time with each unit. Thanks.

t. ogrady

Hantra · « **Reply #27 on:** 23 Aug 2003, 04:07 am »

Quote

What Danny says about lower noisefloor with battery is true for most components, not just DAC's.

Keep one thing in mind when judging the noise floor from this DAC. Non-oversampling DAC's do not have digital noise, and therefore there is real silence between notes. Like real music. . .

Quote

I also noticed they use parts that appear to be close to what Scott Nixon uses,

Ya think?

Look inside yours, and I bet you'll find a Scott Nixon DACKit board.

Quote

I've pretty much made up my mind as to what I'm going to purchase but I'd like to know what comments you have after spending more time with each unit.

Ogrady, these are about as opposite as you can get. The MENSA is on one end of the spectrum, and the Nixon/"ACK" on the other. IMO, if you have a dark system, the MENSA will surely lighten it up. If your system is neutral, the Nixon, or "ACK" will shine, and sound more like real music. The dACK adds some output stages, and batteries to the Nixon DAC.

toxteth ogrady · « **Reply #28 on:** 23 Aug 2003, 04:40 am »

Hi Hantra

I should have been clearer when I said I made up my mind as to which dac I was going to get. What I meant to say was 'which type' I was going to get. That would be the non over sampling variety. I'm aware of the differences between both types of design and how those differences affect the sound. The information that I'm really after is more about battery operation vs. a robust power supply such as the Mensa's.

cheers
t. ogrady

Rocket · « **Reply #29 on:** 23 Aug 2003, 11:17 am »

hi,

just thought i would add my 2 cents worth.

i would ask 1 major question prior to buying a battery powered product.

how long does it take for the unit once it is turned on to sound at it's best?

i have an n.e.w. dc-66 battery powered amp and it used to warm up really quickly. it took about 15 minutes compared to the ac version which took over 1 hour.

if the unit has an optimal playing time of 4 hours and it takes 30 minutes to get to it's optimum level of performance it means you don't really obtain 4 hours playing time. in my experience it is really disappointing when the system shuts down for a recharge session.

i have heard cdp's in perth with innovative battery supplies and they sounded really good.

i'm not sure if i agree with comments about upsamplers. i have a perpetual technologies p3a modwright level 1 and it is a stellar performer. it has a very quiet sound floor and is very quiet between notes. i have not heard the other products mentioned but i'm sure they are great performers

.

regards

rocket

byteme · « **Reply #30 on:** 23 Aug 2003, 04:54 pm »

Quote from: Hantra

IMO, if you have a dark system, the MENSA will surely lighten it up. If your system is neutral, the Nixon, or "ACK" will shine, and sound more like real music. The dACK adds some output stages, and batteries to the Nixon DAC.

Well said and I couldn't agree more. Having had both in my system, and (I feel importantly) having had the Tubedac in for a while to get very used to the non-oversampled sound it was clearly better, to me, than the Mensa. I'm sure that in other darker systems or if you aren't used to or don't like the non oversampling sound the Mensa is a clear winner for price/performance.

Hantra · « **Reply #31 on:** 23 Aug 2003, 05:20 pm »

Quote

if you aren't used to or don't like the non oversampling sound

Read that as "if you don't like real music. . ."

doug s. · « **Reply #32 on:** 23 Aug 2003, 07:17 pm »

hi all,

i cannot comment about the ack or s-n dacs, as i haven't heard them. but, the noise floor of my self-modded art di/o is exceptionally low, & it's as musical as any dac i've heard. and, no, my system is wery neutral, not at all dark sounding... similar results w/my di/o in systems other than my own, also... i've said it before, i'll say it again - at this level, personal preference is the deciding factor...

ymmv,

doug s.

Jay S · « **Reply #33 on:** 24 Aug 2003, 05:33 am »

I've got a TubeDac (as well as 2 other tubes) on its way to me.

oracle9i · « **Reply #34 on:** 4 Sep 2003, 12:09 am »

Quote from: Danny

Okay I have been having some fun with this one.

My test speakers for today were the Alpha LS's. They're powered by Dodd Audio gear. It's a very revealing and breath taking system to say the least. It also shows off upstream changes very well. The speakers will play down low too and reveal shortcomings in the bottom end easily as well.

Chris Own sent me one of his dAck units. I will be comparing it with my Rega Planet and my Bolder modified Art DI/O.

I met Chris a few years ago. He's from the same ...

Danny,

I did not see you mentioned any type of fast music when you did the test of the dAck unit? Music such as Fourplay, pop, rock, etc..? Does the dAck sound good with these types of music too? Thanks,

Danny Richie · « **Reply #35 on:** 4 Sep 2003, 01:18 am »

We did some of the initial comparisons with some Norah Jones.

The lush female vocals of Holy Cole, Patty Larkin, Alison Krauss, and others really are extraordinary with the dAck.

Since, I have found it equally good with everything from full orchestra pieces to AC/DC.

Rush's Moving Pictures sounded better than I ever heard it.

Blue Man Group's first album was goose bump city all the way through. The pounding of those PVC pipes sounded as clear as it did when I was on the third row of their show.

Lyle Lovett's Joshua Judges Ruth sounding better than I ever heard it too.

Dave Mathew's Crash album was played quite a bit while a client was here last week. Many of the details were heard like never before.

It is nice to hear real dead space between notes when there really is dead space there.

The Drum solo on the Focal test disc always sounded impressive, but never this real.

I have fallen in love with the dAck. Don't tell my wife.

Actually she came home the other day to find me sitting in the dark listening to Patty Larkin.

I told her to come in here and listen to this.

She said. I have heard that crap before. I don't need to come hear that again.

But I insisted, and sat her in the center of the couch.

She listened in awe for about 40 minutes. She had never heard it like this before.

Marbles · « **Reply #36 on:** 4 Sep 2003, 01:24 am »

Quote from: Danny

I told her to come in here and listen to this.

She said. I have heard that crap before. I don't need to come hear that again.

. ...

Damn, you must have married MY wife!!!

I sure hope I get my modded dACK! by this weekend.

BikeWNC · « **Reply #37 on:** 4 Sep 2003, 01:42 am »

Marbles,

Who's doing the mod to the dAck for you. I traded emails with Chris and he said that it would be a couple of weeks before his assessment of Danny's mods are made. What mods are you having done? The Sonicaps and Bybee?

Andy

Marbles · « **Reply #38 on:** 4 Sep 2003, 02:04 am »

Quote from: Tsunami

Marbles,

Who's doing the mod to the dAck for you. I traded emails with Chris and he said that it would be a couple of weeks before his assessment of Danny's mods are made. What mods are you having done? The Sonicaps and Bybee?

Andy

Chris. I emailed him last week and he was hopeful I might have it by this weekend in time for a little get together.

He was just going to do the Soniccaps.

I already have the Inline Bybee so I didn't need the built in one. He had not listened to it with the Sonicaps and might not even offer it that way if he does not like it.

I don't know that I would like it stock, but I think I would love it they way Danny has his.

I will have the Empirical modded Perp Tech P3a and the Stan Warren modded MSB/aiwa transport as well as my Mensa DIO to compare.

I sure hope this makes it as well, but I would rather have it modded and later than unmodded and in time.

TIC · « **Reply #39 on:** 4 Sep 2003, 03:44 am »

Quote from: Danny

Blue Man Group's first album was goose bump city all the way through. The pounding of those PVC pipes sounded as clear as it did when I was on the third row of their show. ...

Danny,

I was in the 4th row at the recent Blue Man Group show in Cincinnati. WOW!!! Excellent ROCK show! One of the best ROCK shows I've ever seen (and I previously worked at an Arena that did rock shows)!!

I highly recommend the live performance of Blue Man Group to anyone!

BTW, how are the recordings?

Enjoy,

TIC