phono preamps (again?!)

wildberger · « **on:** 10 May 2007, 07:57 pm »

I'm weighing my choices re; relatively inexpensive phono preamp. I have a NAD 533 turntable with several mods, blue point special evo3 and tube rogue 66 magnum pre with a phono inputs that I'm not satisfied with b/c of hum. I'm considering that gram slee, ciaudio and jolida. I already have a ciaudio dac with upgraded power which could be used with a 'ciaudio' phono pre. I' re-asking this question as I've added the jolida into consideration at a discounted price (see earlier threat; NAD 533). Any opinions regarding these three phono pre's. They are all around the same price. This question was posted earlier by me, though now, I'm asking about a different combo? so....pardon me for the seeming repetition of questions. I'm (I hope) on a learning curve.

----len

Rocket · « **Reply #1 on:** 11 May 2007, 12:05 am »

Hi,

You'll probably need to have a listen to each one in your system if you are having a problem with hum in your system.

I used the following preamps and all except one hummed in my system; musical fidelity xlps (the only one that didn't hum), perreaux sxv1, cornet 2 and bluenote de medici phonostage.

I'm currently using the bluenote phonostage and it hums in my system. I suspect it is my preamp which is causing the problem.

Regards

Rod

gooberdude · « **Reply #2 on:** 11 May 2007, 02:02 pm »

My recomendation is to go with the VPP-1 and use the VAC-1 from your DAC. There's absolutely no hum or noise or hushhhhhhh involved. I archive my LP collection with a pimped out VPP-1. in order to achieve the quality i want the phono pre has to absolutely silent yet dynamic & clean.

These are difficult goals to achieve at the budget level.

I also think Graham Slee's preamps are good but Dusty's tone is better to my ears. Since you already have the magic carpet for the VPP-1 (the vac-1) it should be a logical purchase. Get one new and use the trial period...

If you go this route do yourself a whopper of a favor & ultimatley buy the umbilical from Revelation Audio labs. It turns this combo into a true giant killer. $100 for 1/2 meter.

lcrim · « **Reply #3 on:** 11 May 2007, 02:48 pm »

I've had the Jolida in my bedroom system, almost since it was first released. While there are a pair of 12AX7's in it, they are a buffer. The thing about it is its very flexible. Lots of settings to fool with, and lots of gain. I'm not knocking the others but the Jolida is a solid, well designed piece. Its quiet and if it has a knock, its fairly big. While I wouldn't use it that way, it is designed to set the TT on top of it, its big and flat. I don't think the other two pieces can match the gain or flexibility of the Jolida. I much prefer LOMC carts and there seems to be this tendency to market HOMC because the gain is lacking in the phono section. My rec is to go for the gain now as long as you are going to spend anyway, and later it will not force you to make compromises.

eric the red · « **Reply #4 on:** 11 May 2007, 03:57 pm »

VPP1 and Vac1
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preaphon&1184018690

gooberdude · « **Reply #5 on:** 11 May 2007, 05:15 pm »

the vpp-1 + vac-1 is a fantastic combo.... by itself the vpp-1 is fantastic for $300. when all doll'd up...i've not heard a better phono pre.

wildberger · « **Reply #6 on:** 11 May 2007, 08:34 pm »

dude et al, Thanks for your input!! Since, I've many expenditures, summer and all ie; road biking, house repairs and setting up my Passat with a tow package annnd I've just purchased the the umbilical for my ciaudio dac and power, well....I'm leaning 'that' way..ciaudio that is...it will be Mullard CV4003 tubed through the rogue preamp at line level and i'm very very happy with the ciaudio dac very vinyl-like, so i hope i'll like the phono as well. purchase later this summer, i hope. likely, any of these choices would sound great

len

gooberdude · « **Reply #7 on:** 11 May 2007, 08:55 pm »

With the RAL umbilical in the chain you may find the upgrade bug suddenly disappears.

It takes to CI gear like a pig to slop...

ThomDP · « **Reply #8 on:** 11 May 2007, 09:05 pm »

Has anyone tried the Pro-Ject tube box II @ $349.

http://www.project-audio.com/inhalt/bilder/tn/tubebox.jpg

eric the red · « **Reply #9 on:** 12 May 2007, 02:48 am »

Quote from: tvad4 on 11 May 2007, 04:46 pm

I saw that ad for the CI gear on Audiogon. Looks like a steal to me, but the CI phono preamp doesn't get much attention from vinyl lovers that I can tell.

Sure seems like a bargain, though.

I see you sold your MMF-7 today ( they always sell fast...). Did you buy a KAB Technics?

lazydays · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 May 2007, 05:40 am »

I started out with a solid state phono preamp years ago, and it was dead quiet, but sounded like I was listening to CD's. Later one I went thru two or three tubed phono stages before I settled on a Wright Sound WP-100. Very good dynamics, but had a slight hum (very slight). And seemed to eat a couple 6er5 tubes every 8 months (about $3.00 a piece). Also found it tobe very cable sensitive in my system. Still I liked it very much (kept it). Now I'm using one from Frank Van Alstein (it's also tubed). It's very, very quiet, and seems to have a very nice sound stage. Dynamics seem to be quite good, but must confess that it only has about 25 hours on it. I like this phono stage so well that I may order a second one for my upstairs system rather than use the WP-100. About the only thing I miss in the change over was the gain pots that the Wright used.
gary

Jampot · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 May 2007, 09:05 am »

Food for thought -

http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/3_phono_preamps_e.html

Here in the UK, Richer Sounds are knocking the Cambridge out for £60 ($114). It's not often we get better deals than folks do in the States

Jim

wildberger · « **Reply #12 on:** 14 May 2007, 11:05 pm »

hey jim- thanks for the up on the Cambridge, looks like a deal, though the best i can find, on this side, is $169. will keep this one in mind!

-------len

NJBOB · « **Reply #13 on:** 15 May 2007, 06:11 pm »

I cant believe how good the phono section sounds on this unit. I have a bottlhead seduction on my other system and was going to buy somthing around $300 and was going crazy so many choices. Well just for the fun of it I pulled out my $200 fisher integrated amp pluged the TT into the Phono section and ran the output out of the tape out. (I did have to put some resistors across the speaker outputs ) dummy load.

This thing blew my mind, not only was it dead quite, i was sweet, airy and had bass to kill for. To top it all off the unit has its own Phono gain stage...

I just saved $300 and feel I have the equivelent of a $500 or more phono preamp.

BubbleChamber · « **Reply #14 on:** 31 May 2007, 12:11 am »

Has anyone tried the following budget phono stage? If you have, please comment. They seem to be quite popular as well.

Pro-Ject Tube Box II
Bellari VP-129
NAD PP2

Thanks.

gooberdude · « **Reply #15 on:** 31 May 2007, 02:00 pm »

I'd look at the Cambridge 640, Channel Islands vpp-1 or the Graham Slee stages before any of those 3, bubblechamber...

i've owned 2 of the ones listed. Never heard the bellari.

With some budget stages you will experience a lot of hash (noise that sounds like hshhhhhhhh), nasty bloated bass and unsettling HF performance if you're not careful.

My recomendation to anyone who was in my shoes just a few years ago is spend another $100 or so & get a stage you'll be happy with for a while. Searching the used market is a good thing too.

In The Groove · « **Reply #16 on:** 31 May 2007, 06:01 pm »

I'm enjoying an Audio Research PH3-SE for my phono stage.

BubbleChamber · « **Reply #17 on:** 1 Jun 2007, 07:07 am »

Quote from: gooberdude on 31 May 2007, 02:00 pm

I'd look at the Cambridge 640, Channel Islands vpp-1 or the Graham Slee stages before any of those 3, bubblechamber...

i've owned 2 of the ones listed. Never heard the bellari.

With some budget stages you will experience a lot of hash (noise that sounds like hshhhhhhhh), nasty bloated bass and unsettling HF performance if you're not careful.

My recomendation to anyone who was in my shoes just a few years ago is spend another $100 or so & get a stage you'll be happy with for a while. Searching the used market is a good thing too.

Thanks for the advice goob!

What I would like to try is a tube stage. I suppose the next one up would be the Jolida. Or what would be a decent tube stage under $1000? Or, is there really any significant difference between tube and SS in phono stages like in amps?

woodsyi · « **Reply #18 on:** 1 Jun 2007, 12:46 pm »

Much would depend on your system but tubes generally give more robust sound than SS, especially for vocals. For better or worse, you can also roll tubes to suit your hearing. I would consider Graham Slee ERA Gold MKV or Jazz Club, EAR 834 and Eastern Electric Minimax. ARC PH3 SE is also very good if you like the ARC house sound. One thing you can depend on ARC gear is that it will last you forever and hold resale value.

gooberdude · « **Reply #19 on:** 1 Jun 2007, 02:07 pm »

From reading a lot of posts at Vinyl Circle at audioasylum, the newest Jolida phono pre is a real performer...can't comment on the older versions though. i don't think they garnered as much hulla-baloo though.

I've not owned a tube phono preamp simply because I archive my collection to CD, and wanted the purest signal capture chain that i could afford.

However, if i was just a listener a tube phono pre would probably be cool since i use a SS amplifier. Just remember though, vinyl already is like tube gear...a bit rounded and smooth & velvety & full of midrange goodness. a tube pre in some systems might slow things down a bit.

In my perfect world all DAC's have tubes and all phono pre's are SS. but its all up to taste and luckily this hobby is blossoming enough to where us budget minded (or strapped) folk can buy gear that performs very well...regardless of mfgr or design platform.

If you want tubes and don't want to spend much cash, the Bellari might fit the bill. Learning the shortcomings of a piece like that can only help guide future decisions....

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