New Audiogon policies.... thoughts?

hometheaterdoc · « **on:** 10 May 2007, 04:21 pm »

Everyone,

I just logged onto audiogon to post a new classified ad. I thought I would put up a couple ads for the demo gear and extra inventory I'm trying to sell here at audio circle and audio nervosa.

Instead of getting the entry screen for adding the new classified ad, I got a warning screen:

Quote

You must upgrade your account to Business Development status

Audiogon requires all "Business Development Users" to register as such. Your account activity thus far indicates that you fit our definition of a Business Development User. As such, we need you to agree to our specific terms of use for commercial entities.

Upgrade to Business Development Account

I was already a commercial account. But apparently that's not good enough. I now need to have a business development account. What's the difference you ask? As far as I can tell, the only difference is that it will now cost me $15 to post a classified ad instead of the old $6 charge.

I know Audiogon is popular and a great place to get exposure for your item. No offense intended to audio circle. But I do get very very very limited response from anything I post here and certainly appreciate that it's free to post an ad in the industry section. But $15 an audiogon ad? I thought $6 was steep considering what you got for the bucks... 2.5 times the price without warning for the exact same service seems a little like gouging.... I know it's still cheaper than the auction fee and final selling price percentage structure of ebay and it sounds like the small business owner whining about nothing... but $15 an ad? wow... and this could affect some folks here that buy and sell a lot of stuff on audiogon. This was under who this account affects:

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We may classify you as a Business Development User if:
- You sell a lot more items than you buy through Audiogon, even if not as a business.
- You advertise for sale "new" or "demo" items, even if not as a business entity.
- You post large quantities of listings, even if they are repetitive of the same items.

I may not advertise on audiogon anymore unless it's something I'm desperate to unload. Thoughts?

zapper7 · « **Reply #1 on:** 10 May 2007, 05:05 pm »

I find intsresting as well that the same service that started at $2 an ad had gone to $6, but not 3 times the service.

Audiogon does not stand by the buyer either, as I said in a rant a year or so ago;

"this site offers not protection for the buyer, it is no better than a garage sale on the internet"

I can't imagine how any other business could raise prices to this extent without offering any upgrade/further services.
I wish my business could do that.

Oh well, still sell my gear faster there than here too.

sts9fan · « **Reply #2 on:** 10 May 2007, 05:16 pm »

They know they are the #1 place and they know you will pay because of it. Sounds fair to me. They have what you want so they set the price they want.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #3 on:** 10 May 2007, 05:17 pm »

Inelastic demand - they know the market they have, and how many people will STILL pay that fee, compared to the earlier $2 and $6 fees.

I know it is a bite in the arse, and more likely the objection is to HOW you learned, rather than just the increase in $, BUT, really, will you still sell there?

I think the suggestion to use one ad, and include text to others, and links to your homepage, where you list everything, is a great one. Always find a way to make a system work for you.

Do I support their move? No. Would I pay it, to sell? Yes. Am I a dealer, and thus subject to an increase in operations costs? No.

Raise the price of the item $8 and call it even!

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #4 on:** 10 May 2007, 05:28 pm »

The saying, "You have to spend money to earn money," generally holds true for ANY business.

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Audiogon has the best exposure to high end audio buyers and sellers, as you have discovered.

Right.....and thats your market.There are no short cuts in business.....good luck !!

gooberdude · « **Reply #5 on:** 10 May 2007, 05:29 pm »

What about signing up the wife as the seller and stick to the $6 ads? You can state your ebay feedback, or another market's feedback score...then if a person is intersted give 'em the lowdown in a PM.

just a thought, i'm always tryin to buck the system!

$15 a listing would be OK if you could list a bunch of items. From what i know, that's only possible if the item is sold under their 'Tweaks' category but it may be difft for a retailer.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #6 on:** 10 May 2007, 05:45 pm »

I tooo received a notice that my ads were all removed and I had to update my account. After doing so, I was able to reinstate the ads. Obviously, it's a pain in the arse when we have to spend more than we are use to but I do agree that AudioGon is a key factor in today's audio industry.

They have always treated me good so I have no complaints. Parts of doing business.

hometheaterdoc · « **Reply #7 on:** 10 May 2007, 05:57 pm »

Don't get me wrong.... I understand the concept of spend money to make money.

I know Audiogon has the lion's share of the market and you are much more likely to find a buyer there for an item than anywhere else. it just chaps my derriere that there are no other alternatives, they know it, and are taking advantage of it.

In the grand scheme, $15 isn't *that* big of a deal.... but if you're only allowed to post one item per ad and you're trying to sell a $100 pair of cables, it's a big chunk.

Will I continue to use audiogon for some things? most likely... there isn't really any other place where you get the same exposure. Am I happy about paying $15 for what used to be $2 and $4 a couple years ago and is the exact same thing with no additional benefit? Not really....

I find it interesting that the feedback system was updated to include fields for whether an item was sold by you or if you were the buyer. Interesting how that info can be used to determine if you should be upgraded to a business development account? They're using the audiogon feedback system against users

I've been able to sell off demo and used gear on audiogon. But I've never seen it as a windfall to business. I'm a "value concious" guy

like the rest of the world. In my little world of experience, I've found the percentage of folks on audiogon being offended that you won't sell them a $3000 amplifier for $20 far outnumber the folks who would pay a price for a new item that would allow you to make money on the deal. Unless you have an exclusive product or are a small manufacturer yourself, audiogon isn't really setup for a conventional dealer network. It's geared more to the used/demo buyer... so I don't really use it all that much.

MAC - SteveH · « **Reply #8 on:** 10 May 2007, 06:10 pm »

Believe me, nobody was happy 'signing-up' for the partner program.

Zero · « **Reply #9 on:** 10 May 2007, 06:20 pm »

Bummer.

My main gripe at the moment has to do with limiting each ad to just three pictures now, vice the standard five. While I understand the demands on bandwidth grow in accordance to the popularity of your site; that is just flat out cutting corners and slapping the users hands while doing it. One of the major benefits to audiogon was being able to _thoroughly_ show the potential buyers the condition of your product. Unless what you have listed is in A-OK condition, the odds are there to be that you will find yourself hunkered down in your e-mail account, attaching photos left and right for people that rightfully want to see more.

Perhaps I am just flat out spoiled; I am used to price increases with little to no gain in services/benefits. However, I can't say I am fairly accustom to them while having benefits taken away. It just rubs me the wrong way.

nathanm · « **Reply #10 on:** 10 May 2007, 06:40 pm »

Quote

it just chaps my derriere that there are no other alternatives, they know it, and are taking advantage of it.

Sure there are, they just aren't as popular that's all. I put a free ad on audioxsell.com but didn't get any offers for like 2 weeks but on Audiogon I sold the item the next day. Just seems to be the most popular site, that's all. I got turned off when they raised the listing fee to six bucks or whatever. Luckily this was about the time I realized that audio was a great way to throw a lot of money down the crapper. A fun way, but a crapper nevertheless. I try to ask myself, "Okay, if I buy Cool Thing X am I actually gonna keep it?"

Don't forget, the AC trading post is free! Not that fancy, a little more detective work required, but still essentially free. For non-commercial folk that is.

Whitese · « **Reply #11 on:** 10 May 2007, 06:55 pm »

Ok, I dont sell and buy that much, my beef is that they come across as heavy handed...I had multiple ads pulled when I listed some LP's for sale..even after I asked if I could list them as a set (not to be sold individually).

And when I asked for some rationale as to what guidelines to follow it was like a robot was answering the email stuck in a loop...and then if you go at any time to the LP sale section there are many many multiple LP sellers that even price them separately. Its been mentioned in AA that they protect some particular sellers.

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #12 on:** 10 May 2007, 07:03 pm »

I used to list and sell things on audioshopper.com. I haven't used it in awhile, but it was pretty good and was free if I remember correctly.

lcrim · « **Reply #13 on:** 10 May 2007, 08:01 pm »

Its my feeling that the Home Theatre Doctor is getting a good deal. I have a good friend that the new owners of Audiogon classified as a real business because of his background of usage. They asked for a year's commitment @ $250/ month to continue w/ his old ad (Featured Classified ad) which previously cost $25 a month. Needless to say he opted out of such an arrangement.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #14 on:** 10 May 2007, 08:43 pm »

4 out of my last 5 items sold were sold here on AC in days. I didn't even need to sell them on A-hole-gon

So, The Trading Post here does work well...like any ad, you must price it right and give good background on the item.

rollo · « **Reply #15 on:** 10 May 2007, 08:57 pm »

There is much more exposure for your product on Audiogon. It is a $9 dollar difference. Its a business decision. Is the exposure worth $9?
Now if we promote AC enough exposure will increase and advertising here is free. Can't ask for more than that IMO.
rollo

Bill Baker · « **Reply #16 on:** 10 May 2007, 10:42 pm »

Quote

4 out of my last 5 items sold were sold here on AC in days. I didn't even need to sell them on A-hole-gon

So, The Trading Post here does work well...like any ad, you must price it right and give good background on the item.

For individuals, AC is a great place to start with trying to move a piece here and there. For dealers and manufacturers, It would overload the pages if we were to post all of our gear here. I do announcements here and post demos & clearances here at AC.

At least here, we could throw in a bunch of cables that we are clearing out without the need of 15 different pages.

AudioGon definitely gets more exposure and caters to a much wider range of consumers.

In the end, AC is more appealing to me for the discussions and friendlier atmosphere.

richidoo · « **Reply #17 on:** 10 May 2007, 11:11 pm »

Did Primedia purchase Audiogon outright? What about this partnering arrangement mentioned here? It seems primedia is in it pretty heavily, with presence on videogon, Home theater mag, etc.

It seems logical to suspect that the value of the services offered by Audiogon has been revalued in light of new management. I was hoping primedia would eat audiogon and use its incredibly high traffic to draw visitors to its own websites without seeing it as just a cash cow to squeeze. But apparently they don't see it that way. Raising prices never draws more business, and always reduces profit. It should only be done to cover costs and meet demand. 150% markup is not adjusting for inflation.

Anybody know more about the arrangement with Primedia?
Rich

jlafort · « **Reply #18 on:** 10 May 2007, 11:50 pm »

Makes me long for the days of AudioMart.

Brian Walsh · « **Reply #19 on:** 11 May 2007, 12:42 am »

Audiogon sent me a similar message. I told them what they could do with their $15.

The problem is, there is very little incentive for retailers currently flying under the radar as private users to go legit. For $15 you can use HTML code in your ads. Big deal!

There's no point in complaining to Audiogon. Instead, express your disagreement with Stereophile, who pay Audiogon for hosting their online classifieds. If enough people complain to Stereophile, maybe they will get the message and put enough pressure on Audiogon to change, possibly threatening to drop Audiogon in favor of a competing site.

Several months ago Audiogon's head of marketing had a chance to hear me unload a litany of problems I see with their site and policies. He sounded sincerely interested and said he would call me back at another time to continue our discussion, but that never happened. And soon it was back to business as usual. In view of that, he lost all credibility with me, and I would tell him that to his face.

Up until this new $15 per ad rate, they tried to force retailers like myself to pay $250 per month to advertise on their site. What?! Sure, that fee included a couple of free ads and some theoretical benefits which I neither wanted nor needed, but I told the Audiogon marketing guy it was totally wrong for someone like myself who might have a small handful of ads at any one time, especially since I know of several retailers who are registered as private users and are not being subjected to such pressures. And I'm not going to blow the whistle on them -- that's Audiogon's problem to figure out how to detect and enforce a registration system that works, and to make it easy and attractive for small retailers to register as such. I might as well have been spitting into the wind, because now they have this idiotic $15 per ad rate that no one is going to want to agree to. Bottom line, Audiogon doesn't have a friggin' clue, and whether they know it or not, they're doing everything possible to drive honest people away from their site.

Again, I recommend contacting Stereophile (john.atkinson@primedia.com and/or jon.banner@primedia.com - Jon is their Digital Sales Director) and complaining, telling them you disagree with Audiogon's policies and that you'll take your business elsewhere. And follow up on that promise! Audio Circle, Audio Asylum, and AudioXSell are three competitors that offer free or very nearly free ads. You might not get as many views of your ads, but you won't be rewarding Audiogon's greedy practices. Actually my problem with Audiogon isn't their ad rates per se, it's that they are extortionists against legitimate people in the industry while letting gray marketers like Audio Pimp and other lowlifes get away with murder -- trying to have their cake and eat it, too by taking money from both sides and sitting back laughing all the way to the bank. I've been around too long to be bitter about this, but it bothers me to see people support Audiogon management's behavior and mob-like tactics. Stand up for what is right! You will benefit in the long run.