could use the help down to 3 a little confused

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enrique

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could use the help down to 3 a little confused
« on: 8 May 2007, 10:37 pm »
I've decided to get 1 of these amps but am confused after all the reading which 1 would be best.You guys are the experts which is why i'm asking here.I've come down to either the Flying mole DAD-m100,the P S audio trio a-100 or the Red Dragon.I've tried to research as mush as possible but i'm exhausted and even more confused.I'm about 70% HT and 30 music DVDA/SACD.Which ever amp would be hidden.My speakers are System Audios which are 4ohm 90db.If i posted in the wrong place i appologize.thanks

arthurs

Re: could use the help down to 3 a little confused
« Reply #1 on: 8 May 2007, 11:12 pm »
what's your budget?

arthurs

Re: could use the help down to 3 a little confused
« Reply #2 on: 8 May 2007, 11:30 pm »
I think I figured out your budget based on the other amps.  I'd find a Cary dealer who could give you some points off the price and go after this one...

http://www.caryaudio.com/products/concept/CAA1.html

Won the emerging technology amp shootout  http://www.stereomojo.com/AmpSHOOTOUTPowerAmps.htm

and was extremely good, I got to spend a couple weeks with it.  I believe full retail is $1500, but you could find one for less....really excellent amplifier.

enrique

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Re: could use the help down to 3 a little confused
« Reply #3 on: 9 May 2007, 12:01 am »
thanks for the response.The amps are all used except the Flying Mole.A big reason i was looking at these were because of their size.I have to put the amp where there wont be much ventilation,being that they are cool running is a big plus.Price wise the PS audio and Flying Mole is less than 700,the Red Dragon even less.

mfsoa

Re: could use the help down to 3 a little confused
« Reply #4 on: 9 May 2007, 12:11 am »
I clicked on the Cary link and noticed that the amp has a really low input sensitivity (0.7v for full output).

I don't know what the other choices have but this may give you more flexibility for use with low output sources. (Or limit your choices with high-output sources, perhaps?)

Just thought this might be something to consider...

-Mike


enrique

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Re: could use the help down to 3 a little confused
« Reply #5 on: 9 May 2007, 12:16 am »
I clicked on the Cary link and noticed that the amp has a really low input sensitivity (0.7v for full output).

I don't know what the other choices have but this may give you more flexibility for use with low output sources. (Or limit your choices with high-output sources, perhaps?)

Just thought this might be something to consider...

-Mike


i'm not that knowledgeable so forgive the ignorance but what do you mean by what you just said ?

arthurs

Re: could use the help down to 3 a little confused
« Reply #6 on: 9 May 2007, 01:11 am »
check this one out used...he wants $1500 for the pair, you might see what he'll let the amp go for...

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1183301515

mfsoa

Re: could use the help down to 3 a little confused
« Reply #7 on: 9 May 2007, 01:24 am »
I'm no electrical wiz, but I'll try. Someone please chime in if needed...

The sources that you can use (your cd player, DVD player, phono, tuner etc.) will put out different maximum voltages - CDs players typically put out 2 volts max (some more). Some modified digital sources put out less, maybe 1V. Perhaps you may have some phono setup that puts out less, etc.

These sources often get put into a preamp (can make the signal larger/quiter by amplifying/attenuating it) or a passive linestage (no active circuitry and can't output more voltage than it gets, only less)  (OK there are many variations but trying to keep it basic).

Then comes the amp - Let's say you have two 100 watt amps, equal in every way EXCEPT for the input sensitivity. - Amp 1 may put out its full power with only 0.7 volts being fed to it. Amp 2 needs 2 volts to reach its full output. As you can imagine, the volume produced by these two amps will be very different if they each recieve the same input and use the same speakers.

Then the speakers - some speakers (efficient ones) make much much more sound than others given the same amount of power from the amp.

So what does this mean in the real world? The 2 extremes :

Too much gain - If your source has a high output, you put it through a preamp with lots of gain (lots of ability to increase the level of what it's fed) and then amps with low input sensitivity and efficient speakers, you'll only be able to turn the volume knob a very small amount and it'll get loud real fast and you'll say "Hmmm, I can only turn the volume up 5% of the way - seems silly that I can't use most of the volume range that I have"

Too little gain - Low output source, no increase in voltage from your preamp, amps that need lots of input voltage to reach full power, and speakers that need to be driven hard to get loud. "Hmmm, I got the volume at 100% and it's still not loud enough!"

So in my previous post, with amps that need only 0.7 V input to each full output may give you some flexibility to use a preamp with little or no gain, or sources with lower than typical output level.

I hope I didn't make it seem like an impossible task to match the various pieces in your rig!  I'd guess that many folks use only the lower third of thier volume setting with no problem.

Knowledge of the amount of input voltage your amp gets and how much voltage it needs to reach full power can help to properly match the other pieces of the system. (Or, the characteristics of the rest of the system can sometimes make the amp's input sensitivity a factor in amp choice)

I'm not saying that all this sensitivity stuff can determine which stuff to buy, but will help to avoid the 2 extremes mentioned above.

Hope this helps!

-Mike

enrique

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Re: could use the help down to 3 a little confused
« Reply #8 on: 9 May 2007, 02:06 am »
wow that was alot.I understand somewhat.I'm actually using a rotel reciever rsx1056.Due to my speakers being 4ohm 90db was the reason i was looking into an amp to prevent any problems i may or maynot have.

JLM

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Re: could use the help down to 3 a little confused
« Reply #9 on: 21 May 2007, 10:52 pm »
So what is the problem you may or may not have?  (Now I'm confused.)

Nels Ferre

Re: could use the help down to 3 a little confused
« Reply #10 on: 21 May 2007, 11:40 pm »
One of the Flying Mole amps was just reviewed in Stereophile. I haven't heard one, but I'd drop it from your list.  The review wasn't pretty.

SET Man

Re: could use the help down to 3 a little confused
« Reply #11 on: 22 May 2007, 01:42 am »
One of the Flying Mole amps was just reviewed in Stereophile. I haven't heard one, but I'd drop it from your list.  The review wasn't pretty.

Hey!

  I've read that review and Stereophile really dropped a bomb on the Flying Mole. :o

  No, I personally don't take magazine review seriously. But I rarely see Stereophile say thing this harsh about anything. Not a good thing for a new comer company trying to break in the US market.  :shake:

  You know honestly I've never heard any digital amp what it might be... class-D, Tripath, UCD and etc that I could live with. :? Oh! Well, maybe I just like the distortions of my SET amps  :wink:

  The Flying Mole that was reviewed by Stereophile cost $2K. That's ain't cheap. For that price I would just get a real amp. True that it will be bigger and run hotter but for the sound I would somehow find a space for it.

   Anyway, that is just my personal view on this. :D

Take care,
Buddy :thumb:

enrique

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Re: could use the help down to 3 a little confused
« Reply #12 on: 22 May 2007, 02:00 am »
well to be honest i ended up buying a used sunfire 300x2 amp.Sunfire's run cool and i also spoke with the previous owner and he said that if i didnt it like just return it.So we'll see.