[TheChairGuy]

I was reading either here or another forum about the audiophile fuses that are mushrooming out there.

Trying to make sense of both those that proclaim fuse quality matters not, and those that claim genuine benefits from these $30 fuses...I read deeply into the subject (as deep as Google could deliver it to me) the other night.

One test of a group of lads found that ceramic fuses (or ordinary or audiophile persuasion) sounded better than their glass counterparts of the same type. I had bought a couple ceramic fuses from Lee over at Cryo-Parts a while back and installed in my Maggies (when they had fuses in them - pre-modding).  The benefit seemed small, but worthy for the small price paid. But, I wondered was the benefit the cryo job he does on them, or was it the ceramic?? 

Putting all of this varied information together today, I realized that glass fuses, much like tubes, are subject to voltages and (likely) microphonic vibration.  I've been fantastically pleased with Herbie's tube dampers - and mortite top hats - in damping out glass resonance.  The effect is a little tighter presentation from all my tube amps and pre-amps: a bit better focus and separate of instruments, and clearer vocals.  Glass fuses, also subject to these resonant forces, may well respond to similar damping.

Taking teflon plumbers tape, bought at the Hardware store for a few dollars, snipping off a 1+" piece of it...I wrapped it tightly around each of the single 3A fuses in my tube mono-blocks.  OOOOala, seemingly the same benefit as tube damping: a bit better focus and separate of instruments, and clearer vocals  While you're at it and the fuses are out, clean the metal ends off with Caig or similar and insert back in the holder (it can only help things further).

The effect wasn't night and day component swap stuff...but akin to changing out tubes, or, damping tubes.  As it cost nearly nothing to do and gratification is immediate, I'd love to hear if any of you hear the same benefit when you do so.

Enjoy the tweek 

[YoungDave]

Actually, the way I see it is that fuses are not subjected to high voltage.  The fuse has no voltage drop across it at all.  The input voltage (125 or 250 VAC) is exactly the same as the output voltage.  Hence, no voltage drop.  I would not call anything with no voltage drop across it "subjected to voltage".  When a fuse blows, and it has line voltage on one side and 0 voltage on the other - that's when dielectric behavior comes to bear.

Also, speaking of vibration, I doubt that the metal conductor's vibration, sympathetic to the transformer, I suppose, would make any difference in resistance along that 1/2 inch of conductor.  But if it did, and you wanted to stop the vibration, it seems to me you would have to treat the conductor itself, and not the glass or ceramic tube surrounding it.  The conductor is physically attached to the metal endcaps of the fuse,  which will still be tightly gripped by the chassis-mounted metal arms of the fuseholder - thus transmitting vibration directly to the conductor - and I think that damping the body of the fuse could only have a tiny, if any, effect on that metal conductor.

Bottom line, I don't believe this tweak can make any audible difference.  Call me skeptical about all sorts of audio-related tweaks.  Nonetheless, I am willing to try most of them just in case.  Hearing does not always correlate with what we think we know...

Tubes, on the other hand, have voltage differentials all over the place...plate voltages ca 300VDC, grid voltages ca 1 or 2 VAC, heater voltages ca 6,3 VAC - just lots of different voltages applied to the same piece of hardware.

Cheers,

Dave

[1000a]

Ok

I am leaving now to go to hardware store to get the tape, i will report later.

A few yrs back I was itching to maybe do some mods on my Jolida amp and called Bill @ Response audio he said before doing anything put the halos on the tubes- never did it-

Until a few weeks back, jaw dropped   no lie, "SO its off off I go for the teflon tape" I can not find in my house!  My second biggest jaw drop was 8 18ga. mag wire to woofers & 12 22ga to tweeters no termination v.s. my cat5 VH/TNT design (which was very good).  Until, no lie the mag wire embarsed those well regarded designs by at least 2-3 xs better .  Really it was like the Halos removed multiple dirty pains of glass that were covering the soundstage. 

[TheChairGuy]

YoungDave: I'm less skeptical, but a fair less skeptical than you it seems. I leave open the possibility, while you mostly close the door.  To each is own 

This one, however, is nearly free of costs and takes minutes to do.  Further, when you use teflon plumbers tape, is easily reversible without leaving residue of any kind about.

Try it, if you hear nothing, very little has been ventured and nothing gained. The worst that happens is that I just recommended you waste $2.99 for teflon tape...and I have egg on my face 

1000a, the effect is a bit more subtle than the tube dampers....but, at least, I hear it and it seems to be a positive direction.

[aerius]

Personally I've moved away from fuses and gone to circuit breakers.  Instead of forcing the current to flow through a dinky little wire that's little thicker than a human hair, it goes through a much thicker wire and big solid contacts.  I think it sounds better, but reserve the right to change my mind if I fail a DBT.

[ebag4]

TCG, I happened to be traveling to Mobile Alabama today and while here I saw a young lady carrying around the item in your avatar!!    Just thought I'd let you know.  Now back to the regularly scheduled topic.

Ed

[AJinFLA]

Has anyone tried these dampers?



Cheers,

AJ

[rollo]

Chairguy,

                sounds interesting will give it a try tonight. Wonder if we can use Teflon tape on tubes as dampening ? Can the Teflon take the heat? I know you can.

 rollo

[Bill Baker]

 I have always been curious about fuses altogether. We have power cables up to 6 awg going into our amps only to have the voltage go through a fuse with as small as 25 awg. "wire".

 I am sure fuses can vibrate just as all the components, including circuit boards, within a tube amp will. BUT, most of this vibration is being caused by whatever the fuse is mounted to. In regard to a main fuse built into the chassis, I am not sure much can be done about this vibration except for damping the chassis in that area or maybe damp the cheap plastic fuse holder. For those fuses that might be mounted on a circuit board within the chassis, I would think damping the circuit board would be a primary focus.

 I like th eidea of circuit breakers if the proper ratings can be met.

 I have found isolating internal circuit boards can cut down on mechanical vibration which can effect the sound. Same goes for transformer covers (throw them away if you can live without 'em).

 Just my 2 cents.

[TheChairGuy]

aerius - You might well be on the right path with circuit breakers.  PS Audio, tho they distribute the pricey audiophool ceramic fuses from Germany (called Critical Link for $29.99), only uses circuit breakers now as they sound so much better, according to them.

ebag4 - Thanks for making my day / I love my Magna Carts (probably more than my chairs, these days) 

rollo - Tubes get hot and need to breathe.  Solid teflon tape probably not a good idea there. I recommend a little, dime sized top-hat of Martite or Dennis rope caulk on top of each tube (thin enough so the glass tip pokes thru).  Still plenty of room to breathe, very effective and cheap. Let me know how you like the results 

AJinFLA - Those aren't dampers, they are RF shields for those of us with metal plates in our heads.  Ummm, probably every audiophool needs one come to think of it. 

[yo2tup]

I have always been curious about fuses altogether. We have power cables up to 6 awg going into our amps only to have the voltage go through a fuse with as small as 25 awg. "wire".

 I am sure fuses can vibrate just as all the components, including circuit boards, within a tube amp will. BUT, most of this vibration is being caused by whatever the fuse is mounted to. In regard to a main fuse built into the chassis, I am not sure much can be done about this vibration except for damping the chassis in that area or maybe damp the cheap plastic fuse holder. For those fuses that might be mounted on a circuit board within the chassis, I would think damping the circuit board would be a primary focus.

 I like th eidea of circuit breakers if the proper ratings can be met.

 I have found isolating internal circuit boards can cut down on mechanical vibration which can effect the sound. Same goes for transformer covers (throw them away if you can live without 'em).

 Just my 2 cents.

The concept your talking about is known as forced vibration, where the vibration the fuse is seeing is from the chasis.  When it comes to vibration, the worse that can occur is resonance.  Resonance is amplifying the vibration input.  If the resonant frequency of the fuse is within the frequencies that the chasis is vibrating at, the fuse will respond by amplifying the vibration (resonating).  Basically, it'll be ringing like a bell.  Of course, with something as small as a fuse, you won't be able physically to see this by looking at it, but it can be easily measured with an accelerometer.  Damping the glass will lower its resonant frequency, if you dampen it well enough, so the chasis can go as crazy as it wants and the fuse will not resonate.

 Hope it makes sense, its the exact same concept as package design engineering.  I do this stuff every day 



 

[lonewolfny42]

Ah....Mr. Magna Cart ....(it is a good product )
....besides the teflon plumbers tape....would you add some Silclear silver lube to the ends of the fuses ? (don't know if you've tried that or if it could do damage in there ?)

PS...a good tip...always have on hand an extra fuse for your equipment....you never know when you might need it...

[TheChairGuy]

Prince WolfyChris....hiya 

I bought the Mapleshade silver grease a couple years ago.  I used it on every tube pin and fuse in the house at that time. But I kept reading about migration of the goop possibly causing problems (some manufacturers won't cover warranty on equipments that have been gooped I hear).  I did hear a benefit when I used it, but I can't honestly say I heard anything better than when I used 'Tweek' 20 years ago or 'Kontak' more recently.

I wiped all my tube pins and fuses down a year ago, bought some Caig DeOxIt and Pro Gold and haven't looked back.  It's out there a long time, I know of no gear makers admonishing anyone that uses it, and it is very effective and eliminating oxidation (DeOxIt) and enhancing contact (ProGold) of metal ends.  So, that's what I use now on all fuses, tube pins, rca's, AC plug fins, and any computer type looms in my gear.  It all helps.

yo2up - thanks for your input.  Wrapping your fuses isn't a night and day advance in audio, but there is benefit at comparitively little cost and it's completely reversible.  Thanks for filling in my 100% subjective opinion with scientific reality.

[Occam]

Actually, the way I see it is that fuses are not subjected to high voltage.  The fuse has no voltage drop across it at all.  The input voltage (125 or 250 VAC) is exactly the same as the output voltage.  Hence, no voltage drop.  I would not call anything with no voltage drop across it "subjected to voltage".  When a fuse blows, and it has line voltage on one side and 0 voltage on the other - that's when dielectric behavior comes to bear.

If a fuse had no voltage drop accross it, it wouldn't be a fuse.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuse_%28electrical%29

Personally, when dielectric behavior comes to bear.... I hide my pik-i-nick basket and watch out for Yogi and Booboo. 

[1000a]

OK my take on tefon taped fuse IMS
WelbornePS>>SB3 stock>>stereovox>>Birdland DAC>>mag IC>>Jolida int tubes>>mag spkr wire>>, Knightingale spkrs Alain Courteau

What I think I hear is a little blacker ground or darker presentation.
What I think I hear is some very slight high info removed, not saying bad just saying some slight edge removed very subtle could be distortion.
What I think I heard was a slightly deeper soundstage, a little more focus on the singer or I could see him a little better than before.
What I think I hear is a little more body to the vocalist.
I also noticed slight wavering in his voice in a certain part I had not noticed before.
Maybe a little more stability in the image of the singer

I would say it is a darker presentation, I feel completely safe in that statement.

Very subtle changes, it’s a just do it forget it tweek, go back to a second unwrapped fuse a week later see what you think.

Ref tune:  track#2 I’ll be around
Artist: Jimmie Lee Robinson
CD:     All My Life
Label:  Analog Productions

Solo acoustic guitar and 1 singer

[TheChairGuy]

Yup, subtle, but likely in the right direction 

[gooberdude]

I've been getting into fuses the last year or so too, but i just get the normal ceramic bodied ones from the hardware store typically.   glass bodied fuses shouldn't be used IMO.

its gotta be a vibration thing for the ceraminc bodied ones... they are more pleasing to my ear.   

it'd be great to buy $30 fuses, i really like the $7 cryo'd ones I bought from cryo-parts...if they stocked all sizes i'd have them all installed.

I think the most crucial thing is to replace them every few years.  I bought a lightly used Belles 150A Hot Rod, listened to it a few nights & it was fine but not what i expected.   Installed a new 10 cent fuse and Kablammo, the bass & imaging started a party...   After speaking with the orig owner i found out it was the orig fuse, about 5 yrs old.    To this day i don't have anything but that 10 cent ceramic one & have no desire to upgrade.

[Wayner]

As an industrial/automated machine electrical designer, I must warn those that are thinking about replacing their fuses with circuit breakers in their HIFI components. Fuses have a much faster reacting time and will allow less momentary current through than a circuit breaker. Circuit breakers also come in several different ratings for trip nuisance.

What I'm trying to say is that a fuse will blow way faster when a serious fault occurs. A breaker may trip if at all, too late to prevent damage.

A shorted condition can result in many thousands of amperes in a micro-second. That is why metal will evaporate if you tried to short-out your 15 amp outlet (please don't do it).

A breaker is also a mechanical switch and will de-rate everytime it is tripped. That means it will trip with less and less current everytime it is tripped.

[1000a]

Update:  OK I have had sometime to sleep on this.

I liked the results I got from the teflon wrap, but I am started to think I may have over damped the fuse such as one can over damp a tube and lose some detail.  I didn't sense I lost detail but I did refer to it as dark not necessarily blacker ground.  When I had read the electrical guys take on the science of it, I read well damped (since I do everything to excess  ) I believe I over did it! go figure....

So I will take some teflon off the fuse and report back, Chair Guy how many times around the fuse did you go with the teflon any guesses?   I did mine basically until the telon was on the same plane with the metal ends.  Meaning the glass part w the tef was now the same dia. as the metal ends.  I also just did my powered sub, if there is a fuse that wood shake that would be the "Quaker".

Let ya know later, Wayner thanks for saving ourselves from ourselves - I am glad somebody is watching the wading pool.  Anybody up for "Mag wire Power Cords" 

[Wayner]

1000a,

No offense taken. Just speaking from experience and I know there is a lot of enthusiasm for creative things like this. I'm just the piano player, though.

 aa