Balanced connections for Accuphase

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Iced Halo

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Balanced connections for Accuphase
« on: 4 Aug 2003, 08:27 am »
Just wondering if Accuphase cdp's are "true" balanced players, and if not, if its possible that balanced connections sound better than single ended? Anyone here had any experience regarding the superiority of XLR vs single ended?

Cheers!

Val

Balanced connections for Accuphase
« Reply #1 on: 4 Aug 2003, 04:02 pm »
In general, the only advantage of balanced vs unbalanced is that you can use much longer balanced interconnects because of the higher noise rejection. This is good when you want the equipment rack to be close to the listening seat instead of behind the speakers. I doubt there is any sound-related advantage at all when using regular one-meter connections.

Val

Brad V

Re: Balanced connections for Accuphase
« Reply #2 on: 4 Aug 2003, 05:35 pm »
Quote from: Iced Halo
Just wondering if Accuphase cdp's are "true" balanced players, and if not, if its possible that balanced connections sound better than single ended? Anyone here had any experience regarding the superiority of XLR vs single ended?

Cheers!


Hi,

I know someone who is using balanced from his Accuphase 65V to his Spectron Musician II. He says it is much quieter and also yields him a 6db increase in volume over unbalanced RCA's.

If you're interested in contacting him, you can look in the amp/preamp section of Audio Asylum and search for gme109. He's a member on this site, however doesn't frequent this site as much.

Have a great day,

Brad

Tonto Yoder

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Sedona Sky Sound

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Balanced connections for Accuphase
« Reply #4 on: 5 Aug 2003, 12:29 am »
Hello Tonto Yoder,
Thanks for the post. While the author was firmly against balanced connections, he actually did a pretty good job of explaining why balanced designs were technically better if implemented properly (items 1-4) and cost was not a concern. He also hit upon Iced Halos questions.

First, the Accuphase CDPs are balanced but not fully balanced. Looking at the schematic on one of the Accuphase online CDP brochures, it shows a tacked on balanced output amplifier. Everything in the path before the output is strictly single-ended. Depending how they implemented the balanced buffer, the XLR output may or may not be any better than the single-ended RCA (my bet is on the RCA).  

Sonically, I prefer fully balanced components. However, as it mentions in the article, fully balanced components are meant to work together. In my demo room, I have a Marsh P2000B balanced pre-amp hooked to a fully balanced SST Ampzilla 2000. With a quality XLR connector between them, they sound fantastic. Using only the single-ended RCA inputs and outputs, they sound good but seem to have a higher noisefloor (something not overly noticable on CDs but evident on better quality SACDs) and slightly less dynamics (even after compensating for the dB drop). Using an RCA to XLR adapter produced a muddy sound with little dynamics.

That being said, I noticed several pre-amps at CES this year that had XLR outputs but were strictly single ended. These pre-amps literally soldered the wires from pins 1 and 2 together (basically what an RCA/XLR adapter does). I can only imagine the swearing that goes on when a customer figures out that an RCA cable sounds much better connected to their very expensive fully balanced amp than the XLR connection does. They then would get on the forums and complain how balanced interconnects are a total waste of money, etc. Had their pre-amp been fully balanced I believe most (but probably not all) would be saying the exact opposite. Overall, the audio industry has just done a really piss-poor job of educating people that XLR, balanced, and fully balanced DO NOT mean the same thing  :banghead: . The fact that some manufacturers deliberately try to mislead the customer is extremely troublesome to me  :cuss:.          

Even with all else being equal, the chassis ground loop him rejection capabilities of a fully balanced design are often worth the price of admission. The larger power supplies often found in better equipment tend to generate much larger EMI and static charges. These charges can be picked up by the chassis and induce significant ground loop issues in unbalanced designs. Balanced designs help negate this.      

Julian
www.sedonaskysound.com

Juan R

Balanced connections for Accuphase
« Reply #5 on: 5 Aug 2003, 12:37 am »
I have Kora eclipse and ampzillas 2000, with the XLR connection, the amps sound bad plus the peak lights go on, I wonder is the problem is that the Kora is not full balanced.

Horsehead

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Balanced connections for Accuphase
« Reply #6 on: 5 Aug 2003, 01:04 am »
Excellent post as always Julian.  I think one of the reasons many manufacturers eschew FULLY balanced designs is cost- it requires twice the circuitry- yet many customers want XLR inputs or outputs on a product so they are implemented in the fashion you decribe.  Pass Labs and BAT are two companies whose products are fully balanced from input to output.  Pass is also one the few-if not the only- company that provides a specification for CMRR for their products.  I  appreciate the fully balanced connections in my system- it is truly dead quiet and free from any noise or hum of any kind.  Another company paying attention to the balanced debate is ATI.  Here is a pretty good link from their site:
http://www.ati-amp.com/diffamps.html

If I remember correctly didn't Sony do a pretty crappy job on the XLR outputs on the SCD-1?