[Imperial]

That many?
In the US of A.

The industry is changing people.
It's gonna be a big change!

I have no idea where all this is going, but it's sure gonna be different!
In the early 90's we had minidisc, and you could buy mp3 albums.
The industry should have gotten with the program then!!!
The piracy business started after this ... remember?
They are some 10 years late to GET THEIR ASS out of the lawyer chairs...


I'm gonna say this....

It's the Lawyers that are to blame for the demise of the standard recordstore system!!!
Their hunt for the people that do this or that has forced the evolution to quickly!

And now I believe they get it...
But they still go for the money...

Where is it gonna end?

In Norway 6 record shops closed. We have 800 Recordshops, and 5 million people...

Imperial

[Scott F.]

I can't say that it has been the lawyers sole fault, though they haven't helped in the least.

Honestly I think it is because of the internet....and no I don't mean illegal downloading, I'm talking about convenience. I know for myself, Amazon sees well over 70% of my music buys these days. I can go and sample the album before I buy it (just like the old days). But even better yet, based on the music I plan to buy, Amazon not gives me a few choices of different music within the same genre to sample. If I like it, I usually drop it in my Wish List or Cart.

Last week was one of the few times in the past 12 months that I actually bought some music from Best Buy.

[Imperial]

Hm, yeah, in the US the Price in the street store is high, versus on the net.
In Norway, it's about the same price both places, that has kept the sales going.
So you can choose where to buy, it's all the same, that is a smart move by the record "press" in Norway.
Actually, on new releases, the stores usually are cheaper! After some 15-25 days it evens out.

There is still 56% sales via the stores in Norway, that is a BIG percentage!
Imperial

[Wayner]

It is about music theft. It is illegal to record pre-recorded music from your buddy's music collection that you didn't pay for and now the industry is being destroyed by lost sales. It also doesn't help there is not a lot of new music worth buying either. Sony has bitched about software loss due to illegal downloads, but then I ask myself, why did they make mp3 compatible CD players. They could have put the squeeze on both sides, but screwed everything up again. Create a system that people can abuse and they will abuse it. After the music business is gone, the HI-FI business will follow via the domino effect.

W

[bpape]

I think Marbles question is appropriate.  When the squeeze gets put on schools, what goes?  Music and the other 'arts'.  Fewer trained musicians, fewer music lovers, fewer music buyers.

Yes, the theft of music is part of it as is the schlock that gets passed off theses days for 80% of the new music. 

Bryan

[TheChairGuy]

My perspective is that of a retailer...I have been selling consumer products for over 20 years now.

About 35 years ago Wal-mart opened it's doors in Arkansas.  There was a handful or new discount retailers opened then, too.  Most products before that were largely sold at full mark-up by Mom & Pops or Department Stores.  Discounters like WM, Jamesway, Ames, Hills, Bradles's, Caldor, Kresge, Korvettes and other changed the game.  Most are dead now, new ones have risen: Target, Family Dollar, Pamida, etc.  It's clearly not dead, but the players have changed.

Remember catalog showrooms guys? - the last big one died a decade ago.  Remember Best Products, Service Merchandise, and that catalog showroom somewhere over in the next town to you back 2-3 decades ago?

I remember someone telling me 15 years ago that soon enough, EVERYONE would be shopping at Wholesale Clubs like Price Club, Costco, Sam's Club, BJ's Wholesale and so many that existed back then.  Tho still going strong, same store sales have slipped for years in those venues year-to-year...the consumer is again voting with their feet and finding retail some.

My fantastic little local Music store is closing down in September...the owner told me it hasn't been a viable business for a decade or more.  The landlords, who command big rents in the upscale town he is in, have been really good about keeping his rent increases low over the years...yet he still couldn't make it.  It's a damn shame, but he couldn't keep up...or the retail business of selling records can't sustain a big store anymore. Whichever, I'm not sure. 

Tho I lament the passing of Village Music, and Caldor and Service Merchandise - all places where I have shopped and have good memories - something happened to change the landscape.  It wasn't some conspiracy, it was just that something else came along and the consumer for it followed.

I don't think people are ditching music - there are just new mediums/pathways that take it into your life now. 

Don't lament it's passing - either do something yourself to change the scene or embrace what's coming.  I don't know or can see the future, but I look forward to something better hereon out.  To groan about the passing of something doesn't help at all - so I choose not to.  If something bothers me more than I can bear, I set out to change it 

John / TCG 

[Wayner]

There isn't any "squeeze" on schools. Kids just don't give a crap. They are busy playing 360 and wii. I don't see a kid in my neighborhood until about 5pm. None do any family chores.

W

[tw0k1ngs]

Solution? Turn everyone into an audiophile... guarantee pirating will stop.

[Wayner]

Amen.

[tw0k1ngs]

That many?
In the US of A.

The industry is changing people.
It's gonna be a big change!

I have no idea where all this is going, but it's sure gonna be different!
In the early 90's we had minidisc, and you could buy mp3 albums.
The industry should have gotten with the program then!!!
The piracy business started after this ... remember?
They are some 10 years late to GET THEIR ASS out of the lawyer chairs...


I'm gonna say this....

It's the Lawyers that are to blame for the demise of the standard recordstore system!!!
Their hunt for the people that do this or that has forced the evolution to quickly!

And now I believe they get it...
But they still go for the money...

Where is it gonna end?

In Norway 6 record shops closed. We have 800 Recordshops, and 5 million people...

Imperial

Bad for business, however, it sure as well will bring the record "communities" together in more closely-knit bunches. The more oppression it will face, the tighter bonds will be held. It can only strengthen the community of die-hards. To hell with the rest of the population.

[tw0k1ngs]

One thing I do need to mention however: Times have changed, things have evolved, THANKFULLY in my part of the woods our records stores are taking note, and evolving alongside society; they are reaching their branches out into different aspects, yet keeping the "record store" environment close to heart.

For example, a local store, Relative Theory, used to be just a record store. They saw the change coming, and what did they do? They are now a record store... with a cafe/hangout and art gallery. They have even opened up a sister restaurant called "The Boot" which is top quality, yet plays the locals every weekend.

Sometimes all it takes, instead of looking to the past and forward to the future, is a glance to the sides.

[Soundbitten]

Why fight traffic , burn $3 gal/gas plus waste your free time to drive to a record store when you can find almost any music you want online ? I used to like rummaging through a record store when they had stuff worth rummaging .

[Wayner]

Why? Because you rely on technology to store your music files. What happens when your harddrive dies? What about the "audiophile" sound quality. People will pay thousands for interconnects and power cords, then settle for a crap mp3 file?

W

[Wayner]

I no problem buying "hardcopy" music on line. I thought the trail was going down the ipod path.

[Double Ugly]

Why? Because you rely on technology to store your music files.

And that impacts the continued viability of music stores how?

Having a back-up is never a bad idea, even if you don't subscribe to the method of playback some of us enjoy.

What happens when your harddrive dies?

I get another HDD and load my music from my back-up.  If I'm not smart enough to have a back-up, I re-rip my CDs.  Time-consuming, but effective.

What about the "audiophile" sound quality.

What makes you think those of us who use HDD-based systems don't enjoy "audiophile" sound?

People will pay thousands for interconnects and power cords, then settle for a crap mp3 file?

Do you honestly believe we "technology" people listen to mp3s in our primary music systems? 

-Jim

[Wayner]

Jim,

Many people have mp3 as their primary system.

How did you obtain your music files?

Why would you listen to a copy when you can listen to an earlier generation? (assuming that copies have lost information).

W

[TheChairGuy]

Marbles/Rob,

I don't think I ever read that as succinctly as you have put it.  I really have been wondering why the handful of CD-R's I've burned on my ancient Phillips CD Writer at 2x speed sounded better than the vast majority of CD's I've purchased. 

Thanks for answering the question of why (btw, I use CDBurnerXP Pro...but I'll have to look for the Exact Audio Copy / EAC for the future) 

John

[bpape]

Wayner.

Every state in the US has been cutting school budgets.  Federal matching funds have been going down too.  If your local school district hasn't seen this crunch in the last 10 years - it's 1 in a thousand.

Bryan

[Double Ugly]

Many people have mp3 as their primary system.

Millions, perhaps even tens of millions.  But I would be surprised to find even a handful of them on this site.

How did you obtain your music files?

I ripped them from CDs.  With few exceptions (any?), it's the only way I know to get bit-perfect copies.

How did you think I obtained them?

Why would you listen to a copy when you can listen to an earlier generation? (assuming that copies have lost information).

For the reasons Marbles offered.

I've owned or auditioned my fair share of very nice players, transports and DACs, and nothing I've heard at any price makes me want to swap my HDD-based system and return to the 'old ways.'  The sound I'm getting now is cleaner, clearer and more real than anything else I've had, and not by a small margin. 

There's always something better, so I'd be kidding myself if I said I'm finished with trying to improve my system.  That said, I would be shocked to hear a conventional digital rig better my current set-up at anything remotely approaching what I paid.

Marbles/Rob,

I don't think I ever read that as succinctly as you have put it.  I really have been wondering why the handful of CD-R's I've burned on my ancient Phillips CD Writer at 2x speed sounded better than the vast majority of CD's I've purchased. 

Thanks for answering the question of why (btw, I use CDBurnerXP Pro...but I'll have to look for the Exact Audio Copy / EAC for the future) 

John

You may also want to check out Easy CD-DA Extractor, John.  Mike Galusha recommended it to me a year or so ago, and IMO it's the cat's meow.  Faster and far more intuitive than EAC (which I used prior to Mike's suggestion), and I could detect no difference between CDs ripped with EAC and those ripped with Easy CD-DA Extractor in my listening evaluations. 

Mike also performed bit-by-bit comparisons with CDs ripped with EAC and Easy CD, and they were identical.  I did a couple of comparisons myself with the same result, but I suspect Mike's comparisons were more exhaustive.  Besides, he's much more of a techie geek than I. 

Anyway, EAC is free whereas Easy CD-DA Extractor isn't, but the differences were worth the price of admission to me.

-Jim

[lonewolfny42]

Anyway, EAC is free whereas Easy CD-DA Extractor isn't, but the differences were worth the price of admission to me.

Easy CD-DA has a 30 day trial...well worth trying...and it really does a great job....and is simple to use.