[spudco]

I’m ready to make my move to a computer based source.  Please check out my plan of action and let me know what you think about my approach.  I welcome any advise! 

This week I will be spending my wife’s hard earned money to achieve that end.  I had better get this right or she will…

I am proposing this system:
•   Mac Mini 1.83 GHz with 2 GB memory
•   Western Digital My Book Pro 500 GB external hard drive (2)
•   Logictech diNovo Edge wireless keyboard with mouse
•   Linksys Wireless-G router (an upgrade to my very old router and wireless access point)
•   I/O Magic 52X32X52 external CD Drive (2)
•   Wired Squeezebox
•   Wireless Squeezebox (2)
•   Panasonic 50” plasma for my display (already part of my main music/movie system).

I will be ripping using both the Mac Mini and my HP laptop.  I have not decided whether to use Apple lossless or FLAC or a combination of both.  Any guidance here would be helpful.

I will initially hook up one external hard drive to each computer and one external CD drive to each computer and hopefully rip like a madman to load about half of my 3000+ CD collection.  Since I no longer work, I have some spare time for this… 

After the initial rip-o-rama, I will merge the libraries from both hard drives on to one drive and use the other for backup.

Once the music is loaded, I will use a wired Squeezebox to link to my Audiomeca Dac on my main system.  The Mac Mini will use my 50” Plasma for a display.  I will use one wireless Squeezeboxes to link to my second system in the Yoga studio/Party room and one to link to my third system on my screened porch. 

I chose the Mac Mini for simplicity, style, reliability and ease of interface.  I decided to start with a local quiet hard drive instead of NAS.  If I move to NAS, the hard drives will still be used for backups. 


Thanks for reading and your help!
Edward

[EchiDna]

I will be ripping using both the Mac Mini and my HP laptop.  I have not decided whether to use Apple lossless or FLAC or a combination of both.  Any guidance here would be helpful.

I will initially hook up one external hard drive to each computer and one external CD drive to each computer and hopefully rip like a madman to load about half of my 3000+ CD collection.  Since I no longer work, I have some spare time for this… 

After the initial rip-o-rama, I will merge the libraries from both hard drives on to one drive and use the other for backup.

Once the music is loaded, I will use a wired Squeezebox to link to my Audiomeca Dac on my main system.  The Mac Mini will use my 50” Plasma for a display.  I will use one wireless Squeezeboxes to link to my second system in the Yoga studio/Party room and one to link to my third system on my screened porch. 

all looks ok to me - I'd recomend you pick a format and stick with it for all your files though... typically this is FLAC, but not having used apple lossless myself, I'll not comment there...

do you really need a permanent screen? especially given most audio control will be via the squeezbox anyway??

GL with your decisions...

[JimJ]

Go FLAC...

[avta]

spudco:
I've been using a Mac Mini ( G4 ) for about a year. I was a Windows user in the past but prefer the Mac OS and equipment. I use Max ( www.sbooth.org ) to rip music and store it on an external drive as you are proposing. It allows storage of the files in FLAC format which I prefer. I use a wireless SB2 and have been very satisfied with the results. Good luck.
Guy

[spudco]

I have posted this querry on another site (Steve Hoffman) and have received an interesting recommendation:

Convert to Airport Express Extreme base station.  It seems that I could attach my hard drives to an Airport express base station allowing me to share them wirelessly.  This would allow me to locate my drives in a closet.  I would also use my existing USB hub to attach both hard drives to the network through the base station.

The same guys also recommended using Airport Express instead of wireless Squeezeboxes...

[Double Ugly]

The same guys also recommended using Airport Express instead of wireless Squeezeboxes...

If you do, can you still use FLAC?  I know it isn't compatible with iTunes.

If you want to let iTunes manage your collection, you'll need to use a iTunes-compatible format (FLAC is not).  If not, I recommend using a Squeezebox or some other device that can use FLAC files because (for reasons unknown) they sound better IME.  I wish that wasn't the case because I really wanted to use iTunes and Apple Lossless as my primary means of organization and compression respectively after moving to OSX.  But the difference was readily noticeable in my system, so I've used Max to rip my CDs to FLAC ever since.

Additionally, if you decide to continue with the SB option, I strongly urge you to have the one in the main system modified by Wayne @ Bolder Cables.  You'll be shocked at the improvement, as a brief perusal of several threads in the Bolder circle will confirm.

Good luck, and as always, YMMV.

-Jim

[lcrim]

Getting the noisy stuff away from the listening environment(s) is a wise direction and is the way I eventually ended up.   I think that if you decide to go w/ Airport Express, there are a couple of things that you should be aware of.  The digital output is optical and requires an adapter and you will be using iTunes as your player.  The analog output requires another cable adapter and of even lesser quality.  In general, the sound quality is not nearly as good as w/ a Squeeze Box w/ an improved power supply and an external DAC.  More inclusive mods to the SB (especially Bolder Cable mods) would definitely tilt the equation towards the SB.
You can access the PC where Slimserver is running from any PC on the local LAN w/ a browser.  I don't think that this functionality is possible w/ iTunes.
I'm not sure why you want to use a 50" display but its no big thing.  In all fairness, many people seem to prefer iTunes for its simplicity, I like Slimserver better.    I use Exact Audio Copy in secure mode for ripping.  You could use iTunes for that.  The upgrade path w/ Airport Express is limited while the path w/ SB is rather rich and of course can get pricey.  I prefer the SB for a number of reasons that I outlined.

[Double Ugly]

Larry's post is right on the money IMO.  My only disagreement is with his suggestion that you can use iTunes to rip your CDs. 

Of course you can use iTunes to rip your collection, but it isn't recommended by anyone I know.  The consensus seems to be that iTunes is very intuitive to use, but less than ideal when it comes to the quality of the product produced.  I honestly don't believe Max is as good as my previous program (Easy CD-DA Extractor, which is PC-only ), but having tried both, I recommended using Max instead of iTunes.

Caveat - if you have an Intel-based Mac and don't mind loading a MS OS on your computer, you can use any PC-based program (specifically EAC or Easy CD-DA Extractor) you want.  I prefer the latter, but to each his/her own.  Only my refusal to load a MS OS on my Mac has kept me from doing it.

-Jim

[spudco]

Some folks think it's strange to use my plasma for a monitor, but I thought what the heck...

It's already mounted on the wall between my speakers directly over the electronics rack.  I thought I also occasionally use the WEB and/or other applications.

[tomjtx]

I hear absolutely NO difference between ALAC(apple lossles) and Flac or wav.
Why? Because there is no difference. They are both lossles compression and are bit identical when de compressed.

There is a mountain of info on this on the slim forums.

Some prefer FLAC because it is open source.

Itunes almost always rips bit perfect copies and is easy to use. The CD would have to be severly damaged to make much difference.

You can use Itunes to rip and still use slim and the SB.

It is rumored the next Itunes will support FLAC anyway.

[lcrim]

We bought a MAC at work just to play with and see what it was like.  I am really much more familiar w/ WINTEL computers.  I use an older laptop that was around because we buy a 3 year hardware warrantee and then swap them after the three years.  It is only my music box (dedicated) and I have two 300 GB HDD attached via USB 2 and use one as the active and the other as backup. 
I don't know if it will run in OSX but dBpoweramp is a terrific free program that allows you to translate ripped music from format to format.  I've read that one version is also a very nice ripper but again, it may not work w/ a MAC.

[dB Cooper]

MAX (freeware!) is what I use for ripping/batch conversion on my Mac. Which Mac did you get, btw?

[lcrim]

I had to look it up in the DB. We bought it 10/5/2005 and its an iBookG4.  I had to use it on a trip and my overriding memory is about how heavy it was.  Still had a Motorola processor and was pretty fast and stable. 
Windoze Vista looks suspiciously similar and tends to be as big a PITA in that you have to search around for everything.  Its all still there but a lot of gentle cursing is required.

[Double Ugly]

I hear absolutely NO difference between ALAC(apple lossles) and Flac or wav.

Good for you.  Wish I could say the same.

Why? Because there is no difference.

Right.

There is a mountain of info on this on the slim forums.

I'll begin determining what I use based on what I read on forums instead of what I and my wife hear as soon as someone else begins paying for the equipment I use and the music I listen to.

You want to volunteer?

Some prefer FLAC because it is open source.

No doubt, but it had no bearing on my decision.  As I've said before, I *wanted* to use iTunes, but it didn't (and doesn't) sound as good in my system.

Tell you what... I'll start telling you what you do or don't hear as soon as I know.  Till then, I'll resist the temptation, and ask that you return the favor.

It is rumored the next Itunes will support FLAC anyway.

Great.  Then I'll be able to see if it can manage my music better than the system I've set up.

-Jim

[EchiDna]

I hear absolutely NO difference between ALAC(apple lossles) and Flac or wav.

Good for you.  Wish I could say the same.

Why? Because there is no difference.

Right.

There is a mountain of info on this on the slim forums.

I'll begin determining what I use based on what I read on forums instead of what I and my wife hear as soon as someone else begins paying for the equipment I use and the music I listen to.

You want to volunteer?

Some prefer FLAC because it is open source.

No doubt, but it had no bearing on my decision.  As I've said before, I *wanted* to use iTunes, but it didn't (and doesn't) sound as good in my system.

Tell you what... I'll start telling you what you do or don't hear as soon as I know.  Till then, I'll resist the temptation, and ask that you return the favor.

It is rumored the next Itunes will support FLAC anyway.

Great.  Then I'll be able to see if it can manage my music better than the system I've set up.

-Jim

easy lads...

FWIW, I tend to agree with the sentiment of most of DU's points, but please tone it down a notch or two...

cheers,

[Dan Banquer]

I’m ready to make my move to a computer based source.  Please check out my plan of action and let me know what you think about my approach.  I welcome any advise! 

This week I will be spending my wife’s hard earned money to achieve that end.  I had better get this right or she will…

I am proposing this system:
•   Mac Mini 1.83 GHz with 2 GB memory
•   Western Digital My Book Pro 500 GB external hard drive (2)
•   Logictech diNovo Edge wireless keyboard with mouse
•   Linksys Wireless-G router (an upgrade to my very old router and wireless access point)
•   I/O Magic 52X32X52 external CD Drive (2)
•   Wired Squeezebox
•   Wireless Squeezebox (2)
•   Panasonic 50” plasma for my display (already part of my main music/movie system).

I will be ripping using both the Mac Mini and my HP laptop.  I have not decided whether to use Apple lossless or FLAC or a combination of both.  Any guidance here would be helpful.

I will initially hook up one external hard drive to each computer and one external CD drive to each computer and hopefully rip like a madman to load about half of my 3000+ CD collection.  Since I no longer work, I have some spare time for this… 

After the initial rip-o-rama, I will merge the libraries from both hard drives on to one drive and use the other for backup.

Once the music is loaded, I will use a wired Squeezebox to link to my Audiomeca Dac on my main system.  The Mac Mini will use my 50” Plasma for a display.  I will use one wireless Squeezeboxes to link to my second system in the Yoga studio/Party room and one to link to my third system on my screened porch. 

I chose the Mac Mini for simplicity, style, reliability and ease of interface.  I decided to start with a local quiet hard drive instead of NAS.  If I move to NAS, the hard drives will still be used for backups. 


Thanks for reading and your help!
Edward

Hi Ed:
   I don't know how large your music library is, but hardrive storage is getting pretty cheap. I have about 400 Cd's in my music library, which at the average of 600 megabytes per CD will occupy about 240 gigabytes uncompressed. I'm planning on getting a 750 megabyte drive in the near future. which I expect to accommodate my needs for many years to come. Given the above, I think anyones decision on wether to compress or not could well be based on the size of their music library.
           d.b.

[boead]

I find that iTunes doesn't sound nearly as good as Foobar2000. Actually, I found that no other software player I tried sounded as good as Foobar regardless of the DA converters I used. SO the dilemma was(is); iTunes = the better player for organization, Foobar = the best sounding player.
With OSX you seem to be limited to QT for audio playback so I imagine that there isn’t much you can do besides using an external player/device like a Squeezebox which nearly eliminates the need to the source drive to be any specific format (Apple, Windows, Linux).
Under Windows you can use Foobar. You can also use the Multi-Plugin for iTunes and Xiph plugin for QT to let you play Ogg-FLAC in iTunes with Foobar as the playback engine which bypasses the kmixer kernel for top notch Audiophile quality. (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=40046.msg357558#msg357558)


Apple iTunes supporting FLAC? I haven’t read that yet but I have a hard time understanding why they would do such a thing. FLAC is a open-source, not so widely used or commercially supported lossless format that directly competes with Apple lossless. Why would Apple give a rats ass about FLAC?

Xiph (http://www.xiph.org/quicktime/) has Quicktime plug-in available for both Mac and Windows OS’s that allow for the Ogg wrapper to play within the QT environment and also supports up to 5.1 multichannel audio (Vorbis and FLAC) within a Ogg format wrapper but it doesn’t support FLAC directly.

From what I have read about Airport is that it can be slow causing stuttering music or slow song loads. The SB suffers from the same potential issues. And you still want to convert the signal to SPDIF. A modified SB is going to sound MUCH better then an Airport. I’d be interested in seeing what kind of mods get done to the new Apple-TV device which is an ultra high speed wireless device that caches the actual audio/video data locally and has both analog and digital outputs.

[Double Ugly]

A modified SB is going to sound MUCH better then an Airport.

I agree.

I’d be interested in seeing what kind of mods get done to the new Apple-TV device which is an ultra high speed wireless device that caches the actual audio/video data locally and has both analog and digital outputs.

Me too, but I suspect it may be a while before anyone is willing to crack open their new toy.  If it turns out to be a viable alternative in the high-end audio/video streaming market, I'll likely go that route.  Having the ability to stream both (audio and video) has been my goal from day one, but I didn't have the know-how or $$$ to make it happen.

-Jim

[tomjtx]

I hear absolutely NO difference between ALAC(apple lossles) and Flac or wav.

Good for you.  Wish I could say the same.

Why? Because there is no difference.

Right.

There is a mountain of info on this on the slim forums.

I'll begin determining what I use based on what I read on forums instead of what I and my wife hear as soon as someone else begins paying for the equipment I use and the music I listen to.

You want to volunteer?

Some prefer FLAC because it is open source.

No doubt, but it had no bearing on my decision.  As I've said before, I *wanted* to use iTunes, but it didn't (and doesn't) sound as good in my system.

Tell you what... I'll start telling you what you do or don't hear as soon as I know.  Till then, I'll resist the temptation, and ask that you return the favor.

It is rumored the next Itunes will support FLAC anyway.

Great.  Then I'll be able to see if it can manage my music better than the system I've set up.

-Jim

Jim,

I am sorry that you misinterpreted my post.
I would never suggest someone should buy something based on a forum recommendation, especially mine
I wouldn't want to buy your gear for you, I know you have an excellent and very expensive system, I already went bankrupt buying mine

I mentioned the slim forum only because there is a lot of info there as well and using forums to come up with a short list to listen to seems like a reasonable idea to me.

I certainly wasn't telling you what you hear, only stating what I hear.
I don't think my aural experience, while different than yours, in any way invalidates your aural experience.

There is one possible explanation alac sounds as good as flac in my system.
Acting on a recommendation on the slim forums I set slimserver to decode alac to wav BEFORE sending it to the TP or SB.
I thought I heard an improvement this way. Since that "upgrade was free" I didn't blind test so I suppose one could argue expectation bias. I did compare it to an original wav file and didn't  hear a dif.

Also Slimserver can decode Alac to mp3 and you have to uncheck that option to make sure your not hearing a lower quality mp3 when you play a alac file. This might be a possible reason you heard a difference.

It would be interesting to see if that made a diff in your system.
If that works in your system  it might make itunes more acceptable.
I like the ease of Itunes for ripping and storage and I use the slim nokia interface on my macbook to cue the stereo.

Anyway , I didn't bother to insert IMO or IMS on that post as I thought that could be taken for granted.

Tom

[tomjtx]

Apple iTunes supporting FLAC? I haven’t read that yet but I have a hard time understanding why they would do such a thing. FLAC is a open-source, not so widely used or commercially supported lossless format that directly competes with Apple lossless. Why would Apple give a rats ass about FLAC?


I think part of the reason is that Itunes is moving away from DRM and Jobs seems to think universality and versatility will only increase Apple sales.

I read about this on the slim forums. It would certainly be good news for SB users that also like Itunes.