isoplatmat

lcrim · « **on:** 24 Apr 2007, 01:21 am »

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1179782409
This mat was recommended to me by someone whose ears I trust. I ordered it and will report on my impressions. $100 is a bit steep but I'll check it out.
Anyone got any personal experience with this?

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #1 on:** 24 Apr 2007, 03:04 am »

Lar - we've all pee'ed more away than that on garbage.

Let us know how this works out...for belt of direct drive fans...a deader platter is a better platter

Daygloworange · « **Reply #2 on:** 24 Apr 2007, 03:14 am »

We had a similar thing tried at a TAAS meet. It was made of paper with a number of cork pieces glued to it. The consensus was that it did in fact make an audible improvement. It was worth about $100.00 as well.

If you want to know more, the dealer that put on the demonstation can be found here:

http://www.mykindofmusic.com/index2.htm

Cheers

Toka · « **Reply #3 on:** 24 Apr 2007, 02:42 pm »

Looks promising...looking forward to your report!

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 Apr 2007, 04:24 pm »

Hey, looking further at the reviews of this wunder-mat last night...I again realized there ain't nothing new here. What's new is the application of this type of material to turntable platters.

It's constrained layer damping - pure and simple. It's two thin layers of aluminum with a polymer/rubber-like layer inside. The properties are well known...it helps convert sound/vibrations into heat. You can't ever get rid of vibrations...you can only release it into another form.

The price isn't too bad, tho (good thing it wasn't brought to market by The Cartridge Man or it would have cost $400

) at $99. Quite fair, actually. DIY solutions are less money, but they involve time and efforts.

You can buy a 12 x 27" piece of EAR Isodamp SD40AM (.04" thick - or about 2 mm) for $36.00 from Michael Percy Audio. Buy a compass (to draw a perfect 12" round circle) and some light duty kitchen shears (to cleanly shear the aluminum and polymer layers). Finally, as your compass will give you the perfect center....drill a spindle sized hole in the middle. Assuming you already have the drill, total cost will be in the $45 range.

Another alternative, cheaper, is to buy a 12 x 12" square (1.5mm thick) of Microsorb from Percy Audio...all of $9.50. This polymer may well damp better than any polymer sandwich in the Isodamp...but it's really tacky. Once you cut into around 12" section after marking it with your compass, cut two 12" sections of Reynolds Heavy Duty Aluminum Foil to cover each side. Make a spindle hole, of course

It's a little more mess and time, but the cost won't be but $12 as you can use regular scissors to cut the Microsorb and aluminum foil.

This additional damping layer, to be placed under your existing mat primarily, is probably a more substantial tweek for direct drive fans than belt drivers.....that already have good isolation between cartridge and motor well at hand with a rubber belt and all.

I'm kinda' pumped to try my hand at the DIY solution...I'm only a UPS day away from Michael Percy warehouse here in CA. I'll let you all know how it goes......

gooberdude · « **Reply #5 on:** 24 Apr 2007, 04:30 pm »

Herbie's Way Excellent mat isn't DIY, but for $60 its tough to beat.... add in his record puck for an adtl $30 and its a good $100 'table upgrade.

hey TCG, an EAR rep called me the other day to see how I enjoyed a freebie section of their 1002 material.

he gave me the mcmaster carr part #9709T24 for an EAR material with one adhesive side, stating a lot of people are using that material for audio purposes. we didn't go into applications. the folks at EAR are quite nice.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #6 on:** 24 Apr 2007, 05:10 pm »

Goobs,

I have the Herbie's (the better one than the Way Excellent...with the removable damping dots on it). It's a great mat, Matt

It provides a great interface for the record itself....but provides almost no damping of the platter

It's a great mat to try for belt drive guys...but the direct drive crowd needs an under-mat that damps the ringing platter - desperately. There is nothing but a mat or two between the steady, evil vibration of the motor and the cartridge.

Why the heck the otherwise good direct drive machines have been saddled with (inherently) ring-prone aluminum platters is beyond me - I'm hoping good platter damping is the critical 'link' in bridging the gap between excellent sounding belt drivers and their direct drive cousins.

I appreciate the moments of golden silence that a belt drive provides....but I find pitch and speed control bothersome. A good sub-platter mat solution might end a good bit of those trade-offs. At least, I eternally hope.....

John

lcrim · « **Reply #7 on:** 24 Apr 2007, 05:21 pm »

There are two versions of this isoplatmat. The other one has a thin layer of cork and it only seems to have value with glass or acylic platters. Since both my TT's have those awful "ringing" metal platters, I ordered the standard version. I'm getting arthritis from flicking my fingernails against the platters to hear them ring all the time.

gooberdude · « **Reply #8 on:** 24 Apr 2007, 07:31 pm »

Someone should put a quick call into the good folks at Marigo & see if they have a solution for the ringing platter blues. my guess is they do, that's their 'thing' so to speak.

Marigo products aren't cheap, but i'd bet $50 of their dots placed correctly might be the cure ya'll are lookin' for.... them dots damp musically, no doubt.

now that i think of it, i've not seen a DD table with a nice platter...or at least of the variety you are talking about. I'd think that with such strong motors the platter could/should be solid.

A salesguy here once told me that Technics had an advertisement back in the 70's that showed a man standing on a spinning platter and the LED strobes still showed 33 RPM...claiming their motors were accurate even with a 200lb load.

i tried that with my Expression but broke my rack in 2. kidding...

lcrim · « **Reply #9 on:** 24 Apr 2007, 07:51 pm »

The ringing platter blues are more prevalent on the left coast than in the Northeast. They are accompanied by an overwhelming desire to add yet more mass to your TT.

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 Apr 2007, 11:18 pm »

Quote from: TheChairGuy on 24 Apr 2007, 03:04 am

Lar - we've all pee'ed more away than that on garbage.

I'd say pee'ed more than that on beer!

lcrim · « **Reply #11 on:** 29 Apr 2007, 05:36 pm »

The isoplatmat arrived yesterday and I've been listening with it in place for a day. Constrained layer damping is what John/TheChairGuy called it, and it is a huge difference maker (my system, my ears.) For $100 the resolution, especially in the treble is greatly increased. Everything sounds more detailed and clean and more musical. I can recommend this tweak highly. The old case of you didn't realize what was missing until you hear the difference.
I've made a number of improvements to this analog front end recently and this tweak just brings it all together.
BTW-found an old scratchy copy of Linda Ronstadt's "Heart Like a Wheel" and I can't get enough of it. Its very country but the band is just killer and she just rips my heart out. Highly recommended as well, especially side 2.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #12 on:** 30 Apr 2007, 02:39 am »

tres cool, Lar.

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #13 on:** 30 Apr 2007, 12:27 pm »

Quote from: lcrim on 29 Apr 2007, 05:36 pm

Constrained layer damping is what John/TheChairGuy called it, and it is a huge difference maker (my system, my ears.) For $100 the resolution, especially in the treble is greatly increased. Everything sounds more detailed and clean and more musical.

Last evening I set up my Creature on four Goldmund cones, with a Moca wood board directly under and then an 18"x 18" rubber/cork/rubber slab (like Mapleshade 2'x 2" blocks, but this entire slab is only $30). The improvements were similar: treble clarity, details (decays better outlined). Before that, I was using KAB's Sorbothane hemispheres and the granite slab (part of the Dennensen air suspension). The cartridge being used is the infamous Ortofon X-5 MC.

Just don't forget it's a new mat--and should keep it there for a couple weeks and then switch back to stock. Then you'll really know if it's truly better or if it compromises other areas.

***

lcrim · « **Reply #14 on:** 30 Apr 2007, 05:01 pm »

Hey, just in case it was a slow news day yesterday, the isoplatmat really does work and very well. I continued putting records on the Technics for many hours and I know how cliche it sounds but its like the best tweak I've ever encountered. A $100 but worth every penny. Go back to the beginning of the thread for more info, but it is the real deal. Anyone who knows me, knows how cynical I am but this thing works.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #15 on:** 30 Apr 2007, 05:45 pm »

Larry,

Spray the underside of your platter with damping compound spray... to reduce the underside ringing - before a good bit of it reaches topside. It will also reduce 'howling' coming up from your plinth and reaching your needle (lowering noise you might not notice you have now). If you have any room on the underside of the Technics platter, a very thin layer of Plast-i-Clay works further.

The $99 Isplatmat seems money well spent. For me to buy the materials from Micheal Percy (as on first page of this post), it comes to $57.00 with freight. But, that entails time to cut all this crap up. Whereas, the Isoplatmat might be $105 delivered and it's no fuss, no muss

.

Right now I have the damping spray and Plast-i-Clay on the underside, some Herbie's dots on the topside platter, on top of that is the old Audioquest sorbothane mat (damps nicely, but is a terrible record interface - just deadens the sound if in direct contact with record). On top of the AQ mat is a 12" round piece of rug underlay (can be found in any hardware store as rug underlays or grip liners). It's likely the same thing as the Non-Felt mat stuff sold for $30 on the net (but costs $4).

It's a fantastic combo for me....the music is very live and all notes are distinct. Don't know if in place of the AQ mat I use one of these Isoplatmat's (or DIY lookalikes) will improve what I have measurably?

Toka · « **Reply #16 on:** 30 Apr 2007, 05:59 pm »

lcrim,

Were you using the standard rubber mat before you got the isoplatmat? If so, do you still use that mat on top of the iso, or is it the other way around?

lcrim · « **Reply #17 on:** 30 Apr 2007, 07:38 pm »

toka:
I was using the heavy rubber mat and I put the isoplatmat under it. Its still there. My record clamp no longer works because the height of the record w/ all the thicknesses is just too great to allow it to reach the spindle. A minor loss considering the gain in resolution.
I didn't mention it but surface noise while not gone entirely, has become much less annoying. Several LP's which were of marginal surface quality have become very listenable.
I don't have plans to spray anything inside my TT as this pad has worked a massive improvement that I never realized was possible.

Toka · « **Reply #18 on:** 30 Apr 2007, 07:51 pm »

Cool, thanks! Two more questions...do you use the rubber mat flat side up or down? And what clamp had you been using previously?

tomjtx · « **Reply #19 on:** 30 Apr 2007, 08:07 pm »

anyone tried the isoplatmat on a Linn?