[boead]

Ed Schilling
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=37891.0

We have a Chrysler Town and Country that’s loaded and gets about 18mpg around town, over 20 on the highway.

I recently shopped for a high gas mileage car and realized a few things. Most claims are just that. I ask people sometimes what their car gets on gas and they will make the claim. I then ask if they calculate it regularly, and nearly every time the response is no, that’s what the auto maker said.
After doing much reading on forums I found that most cars get well below the manufacturers claim in normal driving conditions. The Honda Civic that claims 40-mpg is hardly getting 32. Sure, there is always that one or two people that say they get 40 but when the overwhelming majority doesn’t then you have to either second guess them or assume they drive at 55mph on the highway and have a very light foot.

There are few cars that actually get much more then 30 and VERY few that get anything over 40 in this country. I got very frustrated shopping a car recently since I wanted 40mpg and I didn’t want a hybrid (not this time around).

I almost bought a new Honda Civic but again, after a week or intense reading and speaking to people (via email) all around I found very few that actually got 40 computing on an urban highway. The vast majority were hardly breaking 30 and there is a large and growing group looking to start a class action suite against Honda for false claims.

I ended up with an Acura RSX that gets 28 to 30 consistently. I check it nearly every tank full. My buddy got a new Accord and he’s hardly getting 23 although he’s seen 30 on the open highway its NOT consistent. Another friend has a Civic that’s a few years old (130HP EX) and he said he gets a fairly consistent 30, broke 33 once but said its rare.

I had a 97 Windstar van that got 12 to 14 around town and hardly broke 18 on the highway driving like a pussy. I thought something was wrong with it till I found out that it s was completely normal. My buddy has a V8 Suburban that he tows a race car with and he says it actually gets about 10mpg (or less!) around town and on a long highway trip, hardly breaks 14.

My dad got a new MB E500 as a loaner while his E320 was being repaired. He wanted to know what the gas mileage would be (was considering one) and said it burned a lot of gas. He said it averaged 15 mpg around town. His E320 does about 20. My E300 gets between 19 and 22.

[Bob in St. Louis]

My last vehicle was a 2001 Chevy Silverado 4X4 Extended cap pickup that got (consistently) 17mpg. Essentially the same vehicle I'm driving now, just with a permanent cover over the rear.
A co-worker and I were speaking yesterday (sparked by the conversation about the 72mpg VW btw) that a friend of his bought a new Toyota SUV Hybrid (didn't know which one) that claim 30+ mpg, but he only gets SEVENTEEN!! I'd be pretty pissed off personally. Almost HALF of what the sticker says.... Due to my job, I'm constantly explaining to people that those stickers don't mean squat. I realise that and therefore don't put much stock in what the advertised mpg number are. But when this poor bastard buys a vehicle based 100% on being a hybrid capable of 30+ and in reality gets much less, it does nothing but aggravate customers and blacken the eye of an industry already thought of as a bunch of thieving, conniving, lying a-holes.

Not sure what the modern Hondas are getting (compared to what's advertised), but the 10-15 year old versions actually got in the high 30's - low 40 mile per gallons. Of course driven normally, not like an idiot.
Gotta give Honda credit, the new Civic is a bad-assed looking little machine nowdays.
Bob

[macrojack]

I drive my old 1987 Toyota Camry wagon on my courier route. It gets an actual 32 mpg in mixed driving. It has a 2 litre, 4 cylinder engine and a 5 speed manual transmission. I have to agree with some posts I read recently about the pitiful lack of progress on the mileage front. My car is 20 years old, yet it outperforms most of what is being made today. Sad.
My son drives a 1983 Mercedes 300 turbo diesel about 400 miles a month mostly around town and gets about 23 mpg. That's a 2 ton luxury car with an automatic transmission and it rivals the numbers I'm reading here for  many newer cars.
Not only is this a matter of international concern at this point, but it also is becoming a significant factor in personal finance. I just swipe my credit card and the bill comes and I pay it. This could make me very insensitive to the cost of fuel, but I've been careful about that cost for a very long time. Most of the cars I have ever owned have been 4 bangers.
In Bob's case, to use him as an example, he could realistically double his mpg. effectively cutting his fuel cost in half for the same number of miles. At 14 mpg, he needs 2000 gallons to travel 28,000 miles. If he switched to a 28 mpg vehicle, he could go the same distance on 1000 gallons. At $3.09/gal. the difference amounts to $3,090. That's serious money at my house and it would buy a damn fine preamp. At 42 mpg., you save another $1500.
Bob, if you buy a Prius, you get an actual 44 mpg, a couple of thousand dollar tax credit and you would save $5K in fuel every year. More if the price of gas goes up. I wonder if that could happen.

[boead]

I think Americans are HP crazed.

The older Civics had 90 to 115 HP motors and although not particularly fast, they got great MPG. The new Civic has 140+HP and my RSX has 160HP If you keep the RPM’s down VERY low high MPG is possible but when traffic moves at 70mph it all goes down the drain.

A fried had a V6 Altima. If you kept the RPM’s down, used cruise control on the highway he said he got near 30mpg on a few trips with the wife. But around town, getting on it a little the MPG dropped to about 20 or below. BIG swing depending on driving habits.

[sts9fan]

my TDI came with only 90hp.  I had it chipped and now get ~135hp with 245 ftlbs.  Zero loss of MPGS 

[macrojack]

The old Camry mentioned above left the factory with 115 hp. Probably has less now. It drips or burns a quart every 1000 miles or so, has AC and cruises at 80 mph for about 250 of my 500 miles per week. It does not have cruise control. Still, by actual recent measurement, it gets 32 mpg.
The reason I mentioned 44 mpg for the Prius instead of the 52 they advertise, is because I have asked several owners and have seen that number claimed in used Prius ads. An extra 30 mpg would really add up. I'd buy one if I had the money but it would only save me 12 mpg. The Camry has 190,000 miles now so a decision will need to be made eventually. But my other 1987 Camry (sedan) has 244,000 miles and is still going strong.
Dewey's MB diesel has 340,000 miles.
Maybe it's true that they don't make them like they used to.

[ctviggen]

Supposedly, the difference between the sticker's gas mileage and the real gas mileage is due to the way the sticker's gas mileage is tested.  They're changing the test to make it more realistic, but currently it's unrealistic in most instances.  In my car, however, I get better than the sticker gas mileage.  I get 23-24 miles per gallon in city driving and around 30 mpg highway.  According to here:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/17750.shtml

the city mileage should be 19 and the highway 28. 

[Bob in St. Louis]

Jack, You're making a heckuva stong argument there dude!
The double edged sword there is that a fellow would be out a huge chunk of change right up front spending 20-30K on a new car with the sole intension of saving money once a week at the gas station (I don't know what a Prius costs). Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Restating what was said earlier, the poor folks can't afford to buy a new car. Plus, what's the repair cost on a hybrid compared to a conventional vehicle? How much is that batter pack, and what's the life span?
I work in the service department of a luxury car line, it's very common to see somebody buy a used "fancy" car only to find out how much repair/maintenance cost are compared to thier last vehicle.
Bo is correct in saying "we" are HP crazy. I am. BUT, my right foot has chilled out quite a bit over the years. Partially due to maturity, mostly due to gas prices. That doesn't mean that if I get behind the wheel of something with some power, I won't give it a test!  aa {Gee, I miss working for Chevy...test driving the Vette's beats the shit out of what Saab has.}

Bob

[Levi]

My generation 7 Accord with 2.4L engine in city driving gets about 320 miles with a full tank of gas.  Highway mileage is even more like 400+ miles with a full tank of gas.  That fact that having a heavy right foot does not help.

Not sure what the modern Hondas are getting (compared to what's advertised), but the 10-15 year old versions actually got in the high 30's - low 40 mile per gallons. Of course driven normally, not like an idiot.
Gotta give Honda credit, the new Civic is a bad-assed looking little machine nowdays.
Bob

[ctviggen]

My problem with high powered cars (including my own, which has 230hp and 248 ftlb of torque) is that there's no where to be able to drive them anywhere near their cababilities.  My car will hit 100mph in an incredibly short period of time.  But where can I go 100 mph?  No where.  You really have to take the car to a track to come close to its abilities.  

As for Corvette v. Saab, the Corvette is stunning.  But can you put a washing machine in the back?  No.  One of the reasons I purchased my car is because of its combination of ultility and sportiness (and gas mileage).  I looked at other cars, including Audi (TT), BMW, Lexus, etc., and purchased this car because of its combination of features.  Had I to do it over again, I'd have purchased a 9-5 wagon instead.  Still fun to drive but more useful.  Based on these criteria, unless I win the lottery, I'll never buy a Corvette or any other truly fun car again.  I can't see having a ton of HP and torque when there's no where to use it, and I personally value utility over sportiness.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Sorry Bob (ctviggen), I don't mean that as a kick in the balls to you. I'm just like Bo said, HP crazy.
I'd rather be in a V8 with a rumble as opposed to a 4cyl. I'd be more at home at "Super Chevy Sunday" with all the hotrods as opposed to a NOPI event. I'm just old school in that respect. "In my day"....A hot rod was a large American V8 with a lopy cam and big fat rear tires. I used to laugh at the new generation of hotrodders in the little Acura, Civics etc... thinking they're cool. Now days, I've eaten some of those words. Maybe the kids have the right idea; start with a small car, pimp it up, turn up the juice, beat all the old school guys getting <10mpg.
Regarding where you can use the HP, it's not so much a matter of testing the top speed, it's how much fun you can have at legal speeds. 

Bob

[macrojack]

Beware, Bob. "Old school" can mean backward. On the other hand I'm not a large body and I can imagine that big people would be hesitant to squeeze into my car when they are used to something roomier.
The Prius has some sort of whopping big warranty and I have read that Toyota sells them at a loss to get the product started in the market. Probably smart of them since they dominate that market segment.
I have not driven a Prius but I let a salesman pitch me on one a couple of years ago and I remember being impressed with how luxurious and futuristic the car seemed. They sell for around $25K and have a hatchback that allows a degree of cargo capability. They also have twice the resale percentage of any GMC product. I too have wondered about battery life but I believe it is included in the warranty. Go ask Toyota. I'm sure they'll be more than happy to tell you all about it.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Beware, Bob. "Old school" can mean backward.

I have not driven a Prius but I let a salesman pitch me on one a couple of years ago and I remember being impressed with how luxurious and futuristic the car seemed. They sell for around $25K

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/oldsmobile/442/450936.html

Here's my reply to the definition of old school, AND what I'd rather do woth $25K!  aa

Actually, when/if I do anything, it'll be an old (read:CHEAP!) high mileage Japanese four banger and keep the "Land Yacht" for when the family needs it.

Bob

[Levi]

I checked the link.  That is some old school.  Let's see what music can go with that...Led Zep?

[Bob in St. Louis]

I checked the link.  That is some old school.  Let's see what music can go with that...Led Zep?

Oh yea, Zepplin for sure, and most definitely some AC/DC, but since I'm 'backward', I'd have to crank up some Skynard too!  This isn't the vehicle for jazz/classical at all.

Bob

[Bob in St. Louis]

This isn't the vehicle for jazz/classical at all.

The BMW 1 series would be the jazz/classical car!  aa

Bob

[Levi]

[boead]

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/oldsmobile/442/450936.html

Here's my reply to the definition of old school, AND what I'd rather do woth $25K!  aa

A 442 W30 with a 350?

The W30 is a rare 445ci block. I’ve owned a 69 cutlass, a 70 supreme and a 71 S. My brother in-law is a BIG Olds fan, has built and raced many.

[Bob in St. Louis]

I’ve owned a 69 cutlass, a 70 supreme and a 71 S.

YOU SUCK BO!
I love those cars. Especially a red convertable with white stripes!! aa

Bob

[boead]

I’ve owned a 69 cutlass, a 70 supreme and a 71 S.

YOU SUCK BO!
I love those cars. Especially a red convertable with white stripes!! aa

Bob

I want a 1969 Mach I Mustang with a 351 or a 1970 Boss 302.

Maybe a 71 1/2 Camaro with a 350.


I had a 71 Mustang Coupe with a 302, quick but the ass was very light. I lost it one day and wrecked it.