The AMBROSIA Preamp from SST

PLMONROE · « **on:** 20 Apr 2007, 12:46 pm »

Jim, I don't want to steer this discussion awry but could you (here or in a new thread) give us your thoughts, feelings, and observations of the Ambrosia please???

James Romeyn · « **Reply #1 on:** 20 Apr 2007, 08:17 pm »

I told the designer Bongiorno yesterday, the Ambrosia is the single best item I have ever experienced under the heading of audio. My favorite prior was the V60, before that the fully-optioned RM30C-CDW. Brian can't agree & I don't blame him; but ask him how interested he is in voluntarily auditioning without the Ambrosia in his system.

My room is all new, the floor & the front speaker wall are both concrete, 26.5 x 16.5 x 7.5, better acoustics overall vs. my prior room even w/ extensive treatments.

Let's say there were two otherwise identical systems, except for these differences:

Ambrosia preamp, 626R Special/Auricap/spiral tweeters/OXO

vs.

No Ambrosia, RM30C w/ every possible option

The choice would be difficult, even in my largish room. Pre-Ambrosia this was a no-brainer, RM30C all day every day. Post-Ambrosia I'd lean heavily toward the former, not the later. Yes, at elevated levels obviously the RM30C have an advantage. But from low to moderate levels the Ambrosia/626R would be better IMO. Substituting the 40oz 6.5" in the 626R would help move dynamics closer to the 30s. A sub would maximize dynamics: At that time the 626R port could be stuffed (better bass transients & power handling) & a simple inline polarized cap (first-order high-pass crossover) could be inserted IFO the 626R amp, both maximizing the dynamic envelope. The cap may even improve ribbon dynamics; a hp xo employed earlier definitely helped in the regard. The wife said, "Listening to the Ambrosia is like being at A Day On The Green".

I've owned the $2500 ModWright SWL 9.0 SE, listened to an entire LP side/symphony movement on the just-released $4500 ModWright SWL 36.5 fully balanced, seriously auditioned the $15k Krell Evolution-CAST 202, & the $13k VTL TL 7.5 mk1.

IMO the Ambrosia at least equals any of the above in pure audio performance. When factoring in it's list of remote-controlled spectrum-altering features (you just will not believe the list, absolutely no audio degradation in use) & moderate cost it seems peerless. It's one of those quite-expensive pieces that is outstanding in value.

My TRL-modded Sony 900 CDP is at least comparable to the $19k Meitner 2-box & the $4k Audience-modded Denon Universal 2900. This highlights & maximizes the Ambrosia's advantages, which are every audiophile category you can think of preceeded by your favorite superlative. It's been burned in for a total of less than 2 days. Only nitpick so far are that a couple times the logic circuits caused it to mute when I touched it w/ a high-static electrical charge (designer said it's harmless). It apparently inverts the signal & this must be compensated for somewhere in the chain. (Edit: Does NOT invert, see post below 4/26.) It's cosmetics may conflict w/ classic stereotypes for ultra-high-end components. At THE Show I thought the limitless-rotation multi-function controller was just a bit odd. The huge level range via .5dB steps takes many turns for big changes. In use, esp because of all the audio spectrum adjustments, it feels perfect & it quickly becomes very familiar.

I'll never go back to not having the remote-controlled spectrum adjustments again. It's a travesty that audiophiles have been trained to accept no spectrum adjustments. When combined w/ the VMPS level controls the range of adjustments are virtually limitless. For instance, this room w/ limited treatments definitely had an audio imprint I identified as some ringing in the low-upper-midrange & boom in the lower bass. A few clicks later w/ the spectrum controls (balance, seperate L/R & combined L/R tone, seperate bass/treble & FOUR pole positions each!!!!! ), problems GONE!

In detail, dynamic contrast & attention grabbing impact, playing a great Ray Kimber Iso-Mike recording of the UofU symphony orchestra, the sound of the 626R in the room next door reminds me very much of STIIa/R burning-in in Brian's garage 25 years ago.

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #2 on:** 20 Apr 2007, 10:48 pm »

As an Ambrosia owner since December I can say from experience I have never had a finer sounding preamp in my system, and flexibility is unmatched. All functions are available through the remote as well as at the unit.

It should be noted that Bascom King contributed significantly to its sound quality, and the digital functions were the work of an outside consultant whose name escapes me.

John Casler · « **Reply #3 on:** 20 Apr 2007, 11:03 pm »

Hi all,

I split this away from the original thread, since I didn't want the Original to get sidetracked, and James' new Pre deserves it own thread.

Anyone who has heard this Pre-will tell you, it is "beyond special".

And for High Efficiency Horn owners, you can forget an amp, since this baby has so much juice it will power your horns without one.

James Romeyn · « **Reply #4 on:** 20 Apr 2007, 11:14 pm »

Brian said JB told him the Ambrosia will drive 20 Ampzilla power amps w/o problem. I know of no other preamp w/ that capacity.

Bass, clarity & dynamics are apparently no problem driving my Pathos Classic One Mk3 (about 40k input Z) & ATI amp (about 20k if memory serves). That's about 12k total w/o doing the math. Twenty Ampzillas would be, oh about 2k input load, right?

That's like a power amp driving close to a dead short.

John Casler · « **Reply #5 on:** 20 Apr 2007, 11:23 pm »

Not a lot of 50# preamps are out there? aa

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 Apr 2007, 12:44 am »

Nor are there many with extensive heat sinking and which run hot as a toaster. Well, maybe not that hot.

PLMONROE · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Apr 2007, 02:38 pm »

Quote from: John Casler on 20 Apr 2007, 11:03 pm

And for High Efficiency Horn owners, you can forget an amp, since this baby has so much juice it will power your horns without one.

Then would you say that James has developed the world's "horniest" pre-amp?

Paul

lifewithmusic · « **Reply #8 on:** 26 Apr 2007, 06:11 am »

I checked the Spread Spectrum Tech website but couldn't see any pricing on the Ambrosia. Can anyone tell me the suggested retail price for the Ambrosia?

Jim, you're convincing me I need one. Are you a dealer for them?

Thanks.

John Casler · « **Reply #9 on:** 26 Apr 2007, 06:16 am »

Quote from: lifewithmusic on 26 Apr 2007, 06:11 am

I checked the Spread Spectrum Tech website but couldn't see any pricing on the Ambrosia. Can anyone tell me the suggested retail price for the Ambrosia?

Jim, you're convincing me I need one. Are you a dealer for them?

Thanks.

Retail price on the AMBROSIA is $5900

John Casler · « **Reply #10 on:** 26 Apr 2007, 03:58 pm »

As a follow up,

I spoke with James yesterday and he is working on the following:

1) a 200wpc 3 channel amp

2) A new version of the "old" AMPZILLA amp which he will call the AMPZILLA Classic
3) The same updated version of the Thaedra preamp called the Thaedra Classic.

Wardsweb · « **Reply #11 on:** 26 Apr 2007, 06:19 pm »

Man oh man, you would think after 40+ years designing industry setting audio circuits, James would take a break, but then, that's not James. I guess I'll get ready to update his website again.

James Romeyn · « **Reply #12 on:** 26 Apr 2007, 07:36 pm »

An apparent error above, maybe caused by my amp inverting at the balanced input now being employed w/ the Ambrosia's balanced outputs, or maybe I inverted my balanced cables...JB emailed the only way the Ambrosia inverts is if the balanced inputs/outputs are inverted.

PLMONROE · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Jun 2007, 05:43 pm »

Should not the mute button on my Ambrosia COMPLETELY mute all audio output? If this question sounds silly it is because my unit when muted still has sound output although greatly reduced in volume.

John Casler · « **Reply #14 on:** 7 Jun 2007, 05:56 pm »

Quote from: PLMONROE on 7 Jun 2007, 05:43 pm

Should not the mute button on my Ambrosia COMPLETELY mute all audio output? If this question sounds silly it is because my unit when muted still has sound output although greatly reduced in volume.

Hi Paul,

I'll have to post James and ask him, but I have had several preamps that do not fully mute when muted.

It was explained to me, that the reason was so that you "realized" the mute was engaged and did not turn the volume to high levels (if you forgot the mute was on) and then "un-muted" to damaging levels.

Makes sense, and I presume this is the reason, but I'll check.

ctviggen · « **Reply #15 on:** 7 Jun 2007, 06:17 pm »

My Proceed AVP mutes to -81.0 db. Granted, this is such a small level that I can't hear it at reasonable distances from the speakers, but there's still a sound if you get close up and listen hard.

Rocket · « **Reply #16 on:** 8 Jun 2007, 10:23 am »

Hi John,

Quote

1) a 200wpc 3 channel amp

2) A new version of the "old" AMPZILLA amp which he will call the AMPZILLA Classic
3) The same updated version of the Thaedra preamp called the Thaedra Classic.

Thanks for providing me JB's email address. I sorted out my problem with the faceplate on my SOA i.e. I accidently damaged the gold lettering and it looks like i'll have it replaced soon.

In relation to your above post do you mind explaining a little more about the SST products that JB is developing. His new preamp is definitely out of my price range but perhaps his other product may be more affordable for me.

Lastly, do you know if a revision of the SOA is in the pipeworks?

Best wishes

Rod

John Casler · « **Reply #17 on:** 8 Jun 2007, 02:02 pm »

Strangely (coincidence) enough I received a call from James last night, so I ask about the mute function. and he confirmed that what your hearing is correct.

There should be a very faint sound level, when the mute button is pushed.

John Casler · « **Reply #18 on:** 8 Jun 2007, 02:07 pm »

Quote from: Rocket on 8 Jun 2007, 10:23 am

Hi John,

Quote
1) a 200wpc 3 channel amp

2) A new version of the "old" AMPZILLA amp which he will call the AMPZILLA Classic
3) The same updated version of the Thaedra preamp called the Thaedra Classic.

Thanks for providing me JB's email address. I sorted out my problem with the faceplate on my SOA i.e. I accidently damaged the gold lettering and it looks like i'll have it replaced soon.

In relation to your above post do you mind explaining a little more about the SST products that JB is developing. His new preamp is definitely out of my price range but perhaps his other product may be more affordable for me.

Lastly, do you know if a revision of the SOA is in the pipeworks?

Best wishes

Rod

Hi Rod,

James didn't give me much more details than I posted, but I should be talking to him again soon.

If memory serves me correctly the "AMPzilla Classic" was either all Class A or substantially Class A.

ka7niq · « **Reply #19 on:** 9 Jun 2007, 02:27 am »

I am GLAD to see a preamp with tone controls on it!
Especially, remotely operated ones.

This "straight wire with gain" nonsense it just what it is, nonsense.

The poor audiophile w/o tone controls or adjustable speakers is forced to desperately search for that "magic" amp, to "tune" his speakers.

But what about when the program changes, LOL

The Quad 99 is an excellent preamp with a tilt control that hinges at 1 k.

Hats off to Jim for adding tone controls.

In a conversation I once had with Richard Vandersteen, the "father" of "dimensional purity" and all that other first order stuff, I was shocked!

He actually told me that in his opinion, the STUPIDEST thing high end manufacturers ever did was to omit tone controls from preamp.

I wonder if the Ambrosia does it's tone thing in the digital domain ?

If not, there will be ringing/phase shift and other stuff ?

Like that is really gonna be more audible then frequency response errors ?