New cartridge ?

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jgambino

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New cartridge ?
« on: 19 Apr 2007, 06:48 pm »
After not using my turntable for years, I've recently begun to listen to vinyl again. When I had my turntable cleaned before using it agin, the salesman thought I should think about getting a new cartridge as the Signet TK7LCa I have is getting to 30 years old. The turntable is a Luxman PD121 with a Formula IV tonarm. I'm using a Rotel RQ978(?) phonostage as I wasn't sure if I would stick with vinyl or just use CDs and SACDs in the future. I plan to to have a dedicated 2-channel system in  a year or two but if a $200-$300 cartridge would give any immediate improvemnets I could justify it now. Any recommendations would be appreciated.
Joe

TheChairGuy

Re: New cartridge ?
« Reply #1 on: 19 Apr 2007, 07:18 pm »
30 years is ancient for a cartridge - things inside dry up and lose alignment and effectiveness.  If the Signet is a moving coil, is certainly has a (rubber) damper inside that is likely kaput.

You're asking if you should stick to CD and SACD's or get a new cartridge...on the Vinyl Circle :lol:   You must know our collective answer to that question :wink:

A new cartridge won't set you back but $100 or so for some tasty choices from Audio-Technica or Grado (maybe even Stanton).  The mere fact that it's new and everything is in working order within may be a good upgrade from your current cartridge. 

jgambino

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Re: New cartridge ?
« Reply #2 on: 19 Apr 2007, 08:38 pm »
I meant to say that I've too many Lp's that sound great and are not availble in CD or SACD so I've decided to keep the turntable in my system. The Signet was fairly expensive MM cartridge in its day and I would like to get something of equivilent quality without breaking the bank. My phono stage is capable of using both MM and MC carts, but I was told on a different board that a low mass arm like the Formula IV wouldn't be a good match with MC.
Joee

slbender

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Re: New cartridge ?
« Reply #3 on: 19 Apr 2007, 09:19 pm »
Nonsense!!! I'm reading all you guys complaining and complaining saying this cartridge needs 50 hours break-in, that one 100 hours, 200 hours, c'mon the life of a cartridge is at best in the range of 1500 to 2000 hours.  But hey, by 20 or 30 years later.... it should be fully broken-in.  :D

Also, many vintage cartridges were made really, really well.  I mostly use a B&O SP-12 nude diamond elliptical that is now 35 years old and it is fabulous, has never sounded better - ancient my ***!  My turntable is a late 1960's AR XA, on which I mounted a straight Japanese made Carbon Fiber Arm ( from the 1980's ) with removable headshells ( so probably not all that different from a Mayware Formula IV ).  The odd thing is the B&O is probably the heaviest cartridge ever made in the High-End.  It weights a proverbial ton.  I had to ADD a round ceramic magnet that I pulled out of some modern over the head headphones to the counterweight on the CF arm, to get the arm to Balance with the B&O in place.  Yet it is the sweetest, most detailed, most beautiful sounding combination - the heavy monster of a cartridge, and the almost weightless, thin CF Arm, on the old AR XA and tracking at 1.25 grams.

Then again, I also have a Micro-Acoustics 3002 and a MA 2002e, both look and sound like new almost 30 years later.  I have a second SP-12, a conical B&O SP-14, and a Signet 5.0MR that are somewhere between 25 and 35 years new and all three are right as rain. 

I also have a Shure V-15 type II, a Shure V-15 type III, and an M-95HE they also look and sounds like new; also an Acutex, a Teledyne, three Ortofons, an ADC, and they are just as good as when new.  So I just happen to have fifteen out of fifteen cartridges some 25 to 35 years old that are all perfect.... because things inside dry up and lose alignment and effectiveness. ???

I may not like the particular sound or sonic perspective of a particular Shure, ADC, or Acutex, when comppared to the B&O, the MA, or the Signet, but that is what makes horse races.  Someone recently sent me a 20+ year old rarely used Sumiko Andante', I haven't had a chance to listen to it, I just mounted it in the 35 year old Thorens I bought, early this year, and I'd bet it will sound impressive, maybe even great - but then you never know 'till you listen.

In the 1970's about $150-$200. for a cartridge was totally high-end, today $200. is just barely out of the cheap-end.  Any expensive cartridge that hasn't been manhandled, heavily worn, dropped on spinning records repeatedly, or operated above its rated maximum Vertical Tracking Force, or at excessive anti-skating forces will usually last at least several decades without any sonic deterioration.  So 35 years later, I'd put my B&O SP-12, MA-3002, MA-2002e, Signet 5.0MR, and even the conical B&O SP-14 up against anything made today costing $2,500. or less... and yousa, you'd be surprised!  The secret - is proper alignment and keep the diamond clean.

So a $200. cartridge today, might be a big let down when compared to an old Signet.  Just another opinion!

--
Steven L. Bender, Designer of Vintage Audio Equipment


30 years is ancient for a cartridge - things inside dry up and lose alignment and effectiveness.  If the Signet is a moving coil, is certainly has a (rubber) damper inside that is likely kaput.

You're asking if you should stick to CD and SACD's or get a new cartridge...on the Vinyl Circle :lol:   You must know our collective answer to that question :wink:

Psychicanimal

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Re: New cartridge ?
« Reply #4 on: 19 Apr 2007, 09:35 pm »
Signet
TK 7LCA


Type: Moving Magnet

Output: (1Khz 50 mm/sec)    5 mv

Freq Response:  5Hz - 35kHz

Output Impedance:   580 ohms

Load Impedance:  47k ohms

L/R Separation 1kHz:  > 33db

L/R Balance:  1kHz < 0.5db

Stylus Tip:  Line Contact

Cantilever: Beryllium

Dynamic Compliance: ??

Static Compliance:  ??

VTF:  0.8-1.6gm

Wayner

Re: New cartridge ?
« Reply #5 on: 20 Apr 2007, 12:10 am »
Thanks slbender, I couldn't agree with you more.

Psychicanimal

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Re: New cartridge ?
« Reply #6 on: 20 Apr 2007, 01:08 am »
Thanks slbender, I couldn't agree with you more.

Kevin (KAB) says the same!  Well made and not abused cartridges last decades.

I ordered the last two NOS Stanton Super Stereohedron stylus he had a while ago.  They're for my (soon to be) modded StantonTrackmaster I DJ cartridge...aa

Also, I couldn't resist getting this integrated carbon fiber headshell beauty for $99:




According to Kevin, the gold plated boron cantilever this particular cartridge uses was a Signet 'thing', so it was probably some sort of cooperation between them companies. :scratch:

Gambino:

You could very well find original factory replacements for your cartridge.  Be patient.





TheChairGuy

Re: New cartridge ?
« Reply #8 on: 20 Apr 2007, 01:15 am »
Steven/slbender,

These cartridges you mention may well sound good/excellent to you...but after 30 years they are not anywhere near their first-play or first-day condition.

If they didn't use synthetic rubber in those cartridges mentioned, even if they are NOS and just sitting pretty in your drawers, they have lost effectiveness. The grommets/dampers dry out and the suspension is less than exact. Moving Coils are the most suspect as they use rubber to dampen the inherent mechanical resonances in that type of device to the greatest extent to begin with.

It doesn't mean you can't love your old cartridges; merely, don't pay too much for old ones :wink:.  I've bought a few 25 year old cartridges the past year...but I don't spend more than $100.00 for any one of them.  Time, and the mere exposure to oxygen and other things in the air, deteriorate their performance, sometimes, quite markedly.

But, they still sound purdy to me :D

John
Owner of vintage Grado G1+, ADC TRX-1, Grace F-9e