[byteme]

I got the Mensa + trial pack last week and finally had a chance to listen to things over the last two days.  First of all, to see what I’m currently running check my system, it’s up to date.  I’ll start out by saying that realism and emotion are probably the two most important things to me when picking a product.  I’m very happy with my current digital front end but am always willing to listen to something new, especially something as highly touted at the Mensa DIO and the other goodies Wayne sent along, particularly the Bybee stuff.  

I’d like to give a huge thanks to Wayne for putting this together.  For my money, products made by companies like his are right now the biggest bang for the buck in audio.  Followed closely by goodies on the used market,   Guys like Scott Nixon, Wayne, Danny from GR, the Zu guys, making absolutely great stuff for a price that nearly anyone can get in on that blows away all the big name stuff – to me, this is where it’s at!  And what better way to hear the gear than in your own home as part of one of these trials.  I feel fortunate to have gotten the opportunity.

On to the evaluation – my wife and I listened over two days,  her comments are represented in here as well.  We saw things pretty much the same way.

The first thing I tried was an “easy” swap of adding the Bybee RCA purifiers.  Put them on the amp inputs and also at the DAC input of the digital from my transport.  I have to be honest, I don’t understand what the hype is about.  I didn’t hear any difference.  Now, before all the Bybee swearers byers get on me, let me say this:  I have two dedicated 20 amp lines run from my gear, one for analog and one for digital.  My Odyssey runs right to the wall, the other outlet is the PS Audio which then has an Ernie’s Pobox and my 5 channel amp plugged in.  The other side has both OneAC Isolation transformers, the smaller powers the preamp and the larger the digital rig.  All of my outlets in the wall and OneAC’s are Double cryo treated Hubbell 5262 or 5362 treated with Progold.  (The addition of the OneAC and cryo’d outlets happened today too and is reviewed separately – let’s just say – HOLY SHIT what a difference!)  So, my guess is that’s why the bybee’s don’t help.

Next up was digital cables.  I’d been through Kimber D-60 illuminati, Cardas Lightning, Audiomagic Scepter, Harmonic Tech Cyberlink copper and Virtual Dynamics Audition and have recently really liked the Nixon Digital cable.  Wanye’s cryo’d bullet plug digital cable is better than all of them.  In comparison the Nixon seemed bass heavy, less clear and darker.  Wayne’s cable was smoother, better mids and more clear / detailed.  My S7700 transport digs deep and the Bolder cable reveals it all!  Hantra – I’d love to know if the AU24 digital cable is this good!  If this cable is $85 plus $20 for cryo treating then it’s a damn bargain!  The Virtual Dynamics cable was as good as the Nixon.  These findings were true no matter which DAC was used and no matter what music.

Next was the DIO vs. the Tubedac.  I’ll say this to start, they are very different animals and I can certainly see why people like the DIO.  It’s detailed and very easy to listen to compared to other oversampling DACs, good wide soundstage.  I’ve had McCormack DAC-1, Channel Islands VDA & VAC, EAD DSP 7000Mkiii, Rega Planet, in my system and while it’s been awhile I can safely say the DIO was better by a good margin than all of them except the CIA stuff, which it was better than but not by as much.  However, head to head with the Tubedac w/ Siemens E88CC tube it was absolutely no contest.  The Nixon was easily, noticeably, and always, better than the DIO.  We found the DIO had a smaller front to back soundstage, it was a bit hollow sounding – not as full and “round”.  It was also not as good as the Tubedac at conveying emotion almost sounding too analytical.  It was also a bit of a bother to use, twice it lost signal when I simply changed CDs and it was much more finicky with the transports output.  However, the finicky part wouldn’t be an issue if it were your primary DAC – although losing signal when changing CDs would be a problem.  Aside from all of this - without question the biggest difference between the two is the fact that the Nixon does not oversample.  With the DIO on Dave Matthews “Say Goodbye” the cymbals just don’t sound right and it’s because of the “air” around them.  Each cymbal sound has that sheen around it that isn’t real.  It was also very apparent on Ray Brown Trio Summer Wind disc and Eva Cassidy Live at Blues Alley.  The highs all had a Pssssshh to them that, after living with the Tubedac for a long time now just sounds unnatural, almost like tape hiss.  Had I never heard the Tubedac, the DIO is what I’d be after, alas, I’ve heard the Tubedac and it’s staying.

**Edited 8/03 After doing phase tests with two different test discs I have determined that when the above listening was done both the Tubedac and Mensa DIO were very obviously IN phase.  The in phase test image was centered between the speakers.  The test tone that was 180 degrees out of phase was diffuse and clearly outside of the speakers.    Also added this link to a gallery of the pictures of compared gear!  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=93 **

So, there you have it.  The test pack is a LOT to go through!  Thanks again Wayne, for putting this opportunity out there for us!

Music used:

Eva Cassidy – Live at Blues Alley
Dave Matthews –  Crash
Ray Brown Trio – Summer Wind
Rolling Stones – Beggars Banquet
Wanye’s Test Disc
Steely Dan – Aja

[Hantra]

Good review man. . Thanks for the insights!

Your findings mirror mine as well.  I really need to hear one of Wayne's digital cables, now that he has changed the design from the last one I heard. . .  

Also, I am getting an inline Bybee for my DAC just to see what it does.  People say I need to try it, so I will. . .

I think the difference may be in the fact that you had the TubeDAC first.  People seem to not like the TubeDAC when they switch to it from another DAC.  I have even heard people disrespect the Audio Note DAC's when shooting them out.  

OTOH, if you listen to non-oversampling for a week or two, THEN switch, you will see the light. . .

L8z,

B

[Wayne1]

Thank you for the comments.

I just have one question.

Did you make sure to switch your speaker phase when comparing the TubeDac to the MENSA?

[bubba966]

Which bullets are on the Bolder digitals that are in the audition pack, copper or silver?

I've got a few of Wayne's Silver Bullet Cryo'd digitals and I must say that I love them. I tested my 1.25M Bolder to a 1M Transparent Audio AES/EBU digital (their top line cable at about $900). And while they were two different types of digital cables, Waynes was so very, very close to the Transparent. You'd not be able to tell if you weren't doing intentional A/B tests between the two. Considering that Wayne's able was about 1/8th the price of the Transparent, I'm glad I wasn't the one that bought the Transparent as it's definitely not even close to being worth what they charge for it.

Maybe Wayne's new Napalm Digital will be a decent bit better than the Transparent my buddy owns...

[lonewolfny42]

byteme, Nice review, any test of the power cords or the M-80 IC's ?

[jackman]

How do you feel the Tubedac compares to the CIA?  Also, did you try the CIA with external PS?

J

[Hantra]

byteme, Nice review, any test of the power cords or the M-80 IC's ?

I can vouch for the power cord.  The Nitro cord is really great!  The only thing I have found that I like better is the Audience.  Of course it's a TON more money too.  M-80's are really sweet for the money!

B

[byteme]

Wayne - phase wasn't an issue for me so I didn't swap speaker leads at all.  I've got it run now from the tubedac "normally" with + to + and - to -.  Oddly when I swapped it was out of phase for me.  Things were in phase when I listened.

The digital cable in the audition pack has gold plated copper bullets.

I haven't tried the Nitro or M-80 cables yet.  I was so tired of going back behind the system swapping stuff I just needed to sit and listen!  If I get a chance to do so I'll let you know what I find.

Hantra, I couldn't agree more with your assessment of how to "grow into" the Nixon.  Pull whatever oversampling DAC you've got in your system out, let the Nixon in there for a couple weeks and THEN compare.  Once you get used to how natural the Nixon sounds it's much easier to pick out differences - and that Psssshhh cymbal sound.

[byteme]

How do you feel the Tubedac compares to the CIA?  Also, did you try the CIA with external PS?

J

I had the CIA with the external PS.  Until the Tubedac it was the best I'd heard.  Very easy to listen to and very natural.  This is with a different transport and cabling so the grain of salt rule is invoked, but the DIO is more detialed (could be the transport), cleaner and more dynamic.  Either would be an excellent choice, if it were my money and I could only have those two I'd take the DIO, by a nose.

[Marbles]

Wayne - phase wasn't an issue for me so I didn't swap speaker leads at all.  I've got it run now from the tubedac "normally" with + to + and - to -.  Oddly when I swapped it was out of phase for me.  Things were in phase when I listened.

The digital cable in the audition pack has gold plated copper bullets.

I haven't tried the Nitro or M-80 cables yet.  I was so tired of going back behind the system swapping stuff I just needed to sit and listen!  If I get a chance to do so I'll let you know what I fi ...

You know that the tubedac inverts the phase and the Mensa does not, right?

I think Wayne is asking if you changed the speaker leads (or compensated some other way) when you compared, otherwise one or the other was out of phase.

[Wayne1]

Byteme,

The reason I ask is the TubeDac does invert phase compared to the DI/O. If you were not changing the speaker phase when you switched DACs, one of the DACs was out of phase. Some folks and systems don't seem to mind. In my system, and all the others where I heard the SN Dac, it made a pretty large difference to the way things sound.

I am personally rather intrigued by all the different opinions of the exact same gear in different systems. Everyone has in their mind the type of sound that they like. Different combinations of gear seem to achieve it for different folks.

All of this is just reinforcing to me, that you really have to try out whatever piece of gear you are interested in, in YOUR OWN system.

Online reviews should just point you in a general direction to narrow down the field. The only review that really matters is your own

[Jay S]

Guys, the "psssch" cymbal sound may not be the dac you are hearing...

I haven't heard the TubeDac, but I am quite interested in listening to it.

[Kishore]

ByteMe,

Well writen impressions ..I wish I had your time to enjoy the music and compare

Wayne - phase wasn't an issue for me so I didn't swap speaker leads at all ...

I shall disagree with you here..phase made a HUGE difference for me (esp with tracks with strong vocals) and I speak from personal experiences ( I had an inverting pre)...I thought out of phase tracks I heard sounded recessed, back in hallway kinda effect..

My $0.02

Cheers,
Kishore

[byteme]

As for the phase thing.  I am aware that the Nixon inverts phase.  My preamp does not.  Therefore, in theory, I should have to swap the speaker leads in order to be in "correct phase".  However, when doing so I am CLEARLY out of phase.  Image is terrible, vocals/instruments float all over the place and things sound like there coming out of the top right corner (or whatever unusual position) of the room.  When I leave the speaker leads "normal" all sounds fine, I have no explanation for this.

What I heard from the Mensa was not a result of being out of phase.  I am familiar with what being out of phase sounds like and this wasn't it.  The image was great, centered, wide, plenty of detail and not coming out of left field.  However, I will swap leads and listen with the Mensa just to be absolutley sure.

[byteme]

Guys, the "psssch" cymbal sound may not be the dac you are hearing...

I haven't heard the TubeDac, but I am quite interested in listening to it.

If it's not the DAC then I don't know what it would be.  With the Mensa - it's there, with the Nixon, it's not.

I agree with Wayne totally that you really need to hear these pieces in your own system in order to really evaluate them.

[byteme]

Forgot to mention - here a link to the gallery of pictures - http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=93

[byteme]

ByteMe,

Well writen impressions ..I wish I had your time to enjoy the music and compare

Wayne - phase wasn't an issue for me so I didn't swap speaker leads at all ...

I shall disagree with you here..phase made a HUGE difference for me (esp with tracks with strong vocals) and I speak from personal experiences ( I had an inverting pre)...I thought out of phase tracks I heard sounded recessed, back in hallway kinda effect..

My $0.02

Cheers,
Kishore

Kishore, I wasn't saying that phase doesn't sonicly matter, it does and I've got test tones and know what it sounds like on "regular" music as well.  For one reason or another the Nixon is run "normal".  Although it inverts phase when I swap speaker leads it sounds as you say, like crap, no precision to the image, all that stuff.

[Marbles]

It's clear to me that your lovume control is inverted too    

[Tyson]

Just a little counterpoint here, my parents are visiting for the weekend, and I had a little impromptu shootout w/the Mensa and tubedac for my dad.  I switched back & forth between the 2 DAC's (and switching speaker leads for proper phase).  In my dad's (non-audiophile) opinion the Mensa was clearly superior.  He described the tubedac as "muffled" sounding in comparison (music was Louis Armstrong playing Fats Weller covers - very nice disc, great music).  So, I have to agree with byteme, you gotta listen for yourself and make your own determinations. . .

[Kishore]

Byteme,

Well, looks like you did a fair comparison . Anyway as you and Tyson mentioned nothing like hearing for yourself and getting the satisfaction of choosing the best suited for what you heard..

Just a little counterpoint here, my parents are visiting for the weekend, and I had a little impromptu shootout w/the Mensa and tubedac for my dad.  I switched back & forth <snip>.

I subjected my sister and my aunt through similar experiences (comparisons/shoot-outs) and they both thought I was mad   . I can never forget the looks on their faces (i.e of all things audio? Jeez grow up! kinda look )

We are all a special breed I guess

Cheers,
Kishore