[Bob in St. Louis]

8', so not too much angling of the baffle.
When are the Sterlings coming out anyway, that would be the ticket. 3 of those and off I go

You'd be smackin' your head on one that low, but it would be doable. Is that a projector screen I see in your avatar? Is this the room they'd be going in? If so, won't that interfere with viewing the screen?

Regarding the release of the Sterling Coax 15"ers, I've been harassing (teasingly) Darrel Hawthorne about that very subject. I don't think it'll be much longer. Sometime this summer probably??

Bob

[zapper7]

The screen is 16" from the ceiling, and there is 4' on each side of it to the side wall.
Will it be enough room, I don't know.

[Viridian]

So, my idea for ceiling mounting isn't sounding so absurd for some guys. Cool. If anyone does it they absolutely have to share their results. I doubt I will be the first to actually implement it.

[JLM]

I heard the SIs at Hurdy Gurdy Dave's house twice now (he's the guy who redesigned and rebuilds the crossovers for Hawthorne).  The first time was with a 8 wpc Tripath.  It provided plenty of juice for listening at sane levels. 

And I've heard the FE127E and didn't have any treble roll-off compliants, but it doesn't like being pushed too hard (see Omega Speakers forum here at AC).  It's a good driver for the price, but by the time you put it in much of a cabinet or match it up to decent electronics/source you might as well spend more than $75 on a pair of drivers.

[Viridian]

Thanks JLM, I see your point about the FE127's. probably something more like the hemp fr8c's would make more sense in the long run. I don't really want a huge multi-stage upgrade path. I can already see though that I am going to build something like jkardell's OB project over on Decware but then I can't get away from the SI's, so that will fit in there somewhere. Ask my wife where.

Perhaps it is feasible to use the SI's OB with a single 18" under them for more bass and use the dbx xover I just won on ebay to biamp the whole setup. Would that make more sense than using the hemps in the same arrangement? any benefit? I see that many feel that the SI's don't necessarily need the bass help.

My thinking has taken a definite turn here. I don't any longer see that I am even considering the Coral 12" drivers I have sitting on my espresso counter. Maybe for a secondary project.

BTW has anyone decided to not use the passive xover with the SI's and go electonic/active?

[Bob in St. Louis]

Perhaps it is feasible to use the SI's OB with a single 18" under them for more bass .......I see that many feel that the SI's don't necessarily need the bass help.

For two channel, SI's provide enough bass for all music but the real low stuff (Rap, Techno, Pipe organ). For HT, bass does need to be augmented. A single 18 would be adequate depeding on how much of a basshead you are. A pair of Auggies should be enough, there again, unless you're in the top 5% of bassheads (like me). Then you'd still need more.

BTW has anyone decided to not use the passive xover with the SI's and go electonic/active?

A few fella's on the HawthorneAudio forum are doing this.

Bob

[opnly bafld]

Thanks JLM, I see your point about the FE127's. probably something more like the hemp fr8c's would make more sense in the long run. I don't really want a huge multi-stage upgrade path. I can already see though that I am going to build something like jkardell's OB project over on Decware but then I can't get away from the SI's, so that will fit in there somewhere. Ask my wife where.

Perhaps it is feasible to use the SI's OB with a single 18" under them for more bass and use the dbx xover I just won on ebay to biamp the whole setup. Would that make more sense than using the hemps in the same arrangement? any benefit? I see that many feel that the SI's don't necessarily need the bass help.

My thinking has taken a definite turn here. I don't any longer see that I am even considering the Coral 12" drivers I have sitting on my espresso counter. Maybe for a secondary project.

BTW has anyone decided to not use the passive xover with the SI's and go electonic/active?

Erik,
The difference between FR and 2 way will always be the limitations of FR vs. the crossover and the x-o point of 2 ways. Some x-o's shout at listeners "Here I am, here I am", while good designs are less apparent and many prefer the advantages of a woofer and a tweeter over the disadvantages of a FR. It would seem (not having heard them) that HG Dave has done a very good job of designing the Hawthorne x-o.
Others want the coherency, the oneness of sound that only a FR can provide.

Another option to consider going the Hawthorne SI route is wait for the new 10" coax and use your Corals or another helper woofer under it with the DBX x-o. I have a feeling the 10" in a 3 way setup will be .


Lin

[Viridian]

Thanks JLM, I see your point about the FE127's. probably something more like the hemp fr8c's would make more sense in the long run. I don't really want a huge multi-stage upgrade path. I can already see though that I am going to build something like jkardell's OB project over on Decware but then I can't get away from the SI's, so that will fit in there somewhere. Ask my wife where.

Perhaps it is feasible to use the SI's OB with a single 18" under them for more bass and use the dbx xover I just won on ebay to biamp the whole setup. Would that make more sense than using the hemps in the same arrangement? any benefit? I see that many feel that the SI's don't necessarily need the bass help.

My thinking has taken a definite turn here. I don't any longer see that I am even considering the Coral 12" drivers I have sitting on my espresso counter. Maybe for a secondary project.

BTW has anyone decided to not use the passive xover with the SI's and go electonic/active?

Another option to consider going the Hawthorne SI route is wait for the new 10" coax and use your Corals or another helper woofer under it with the DBX x-o. I have a feeling the 10" in a 3 way setup will be .


Lin

I guess I was thinking more like an FR with bass help.

My Corals are 94dB efficient and the Hawthorne 10" coax sounds like it will be a pretty close match to that. Hmm.

I gotta stop getting more options here. I won't be able to make any decisions Actually, I like options, keep em coming and I thank you Lin for that input.

[nodiak]

Well, since it's free opinion time  ...
Viridian, How much bass are you after? "95% of what's in music" or closer to ALL the bass. 95% can be had with a large bass driver or two on ob and a widerange. ALL the bass takes a box or IB sub, talking strong down to 20 hz and below. Strong. Big fat amp needed.
It seems you want to try the 18's and a widerange, go for it! You're almost there, but now you're in the soup with the rest of us trying to guess which sounds best to you!
Of drivers I've tried with 15's on ob the Fostex FE167's are on the clear, open, sweet (almost delicate at times) end of the spectrum (after some breakin, when they are a bit edgy), and at 94db should fit with the 97db 18's. Have to be careful on ob and use xo (electronic or some caps) to avoid over excursion. ~ $140/pair. The Hemps worked too, ~ same efficiency, more body/thicker mids still some sweetness. Long break in, I didn't believe the break in thing until them (still wish it wasn't true). B200's to me have a more forward aggressive presentation. Mr.C's B200 gang seems to have worked around this, or those tough Aussies just like it that way! (Hi Nigel). All three of these can be phase plugged, worth it! Tons of other drivers but I felt those 3 were a good range of selection.
I felt the FE108ez's were the best sonically to mate with a large woofer as they handled the treble almost like a tweeter, had great clean mids and had a flat response. But they're only 90db, and definitely no lower xo than 300 hz ( I broke a pair learning this).   
BTW, have you tried the Corals on ob yet to determine if they have enough bass? I don't think they'd have much more than the coming SI 10's to augment them, imo. I bet they have a qts below .5, just a guess as the smaller Corals I have/had are.
BTW2, I agree with jkardell's advice to you on the decware thread -pick a level and stick to it, for awhile. Who knows, you might be the first to succeed at that! 
Thanks for letting me blahblah...now, watcha gonna do!
(Oh yeah, there's always the SI 15's if you want to KISS).
Don

[opnly bafld]

Don,
Erik's first post has the Corals qts at 0.6, is that enough? I dunno, it depends.
I am just swimming around in the soup like everone else.

Lin

[Viridian]

Don, I am after the 95% bass. My room would take too much work for the rest. I appreciate your comments on the Fostex 167's. Makes me curious. You think following the biamping philosophy(Elliot Sound article) of dividing frequency at around 300Hz for a 50/50 power sharing with the subs, that the 167's would work well at that freq and above? It surely would save a few pennies over some of the other options. I like those sorts of observations. Who wouldn't want a sweet delicate sound? I do wonder what the newest version of the FR8C sounds like compared to the old.

I have a friend who may be interested in the Corals, so who knows. I am tracking every move of my 18's as they near my doorstep.

All the best,
Erik

[nodiak]

Linn, thanks I missed that. I'm no expert but that's definitely getting into the ball park. Worth a try. But a single 12 a side may get strained at volume. 
Erik, Coral made very nice drivers, I had a pair of their FE103's , basically size of Fostex 103/107e's. Now I've got four Coral Flat 6B's to try when I get to them - will try 2 per side on ob, bottom doing bass only. But they may end up in mltl or aperiodic boxes in the shop.
Can you get the 12" Corals on a baffle? You might be glad you tried them. Even if you end up selling them to your friend. I bet they'd be great in sealed box (I don't hate all non ob's).
The FE167e's are a nice driver, also kind of a nice guy driver, clean and have a purity. To me they excelled at acoustic music and big tubey guitars. I do think tube amps keep them sweeter, don't know about tripaths, etc. I just think if you go with a widerange that gets the bass xo'd out then you have more options. I strongly agree with 300hz, especially for ob. I understand your talking about half the power to each driver, but also these low xmax Fostex on ob can't handle more in my experience.
I hope to hear some comparisons of the new to old Hemp 8's too, maybe soon? 
Are you going to end up with lots of unplayed drivers on shelves...too? 
Don

[Viridian]

I hope to hear some comparisons of the new to old Hemp 8's too, maybe soon? 
Are you going to end up with lots of unplayed drivers on shelves...too? 
Don

Don, thanks for that. I will file that info away. Boy, I hope I don't end up with a shelf full of drivers. That wouldn't help for keeping peace in the family. I think I need to hit a bullseye pretty much right off the bat.

Hey, is there any trick to routing a hole in plywood? I see that partsexpress sells a guide to use with a "plunge router". I had a jig saw once and was disgusted wtih the results. I don't want to try that even for an experiment, but may have to.

All the best,
Erik

[JLM]

So many of these options get you sooo close to an ideal.  Must be really fustrating eh?

I like the comment about crossovers screaming out.  I prefer very low (below 100 Hz) or high (above 5,000 Hz) crossovers and definitely 1st order if possible (if you must have one).  This requires extended range drivers that are either relatively small that you can use with a powered sub or large to go with a tweeter.  The midrange ribbon that VMPS uses has a wide range and probably explains why its a three-way I like.

Here's another option that close to an ideal.  Bob Brines FT-1600 Mk II.  Its not an OB, but in-room flat to under 40 Hz using just the Fostex FE-167 in a transmission line floorstanding design.  Bob sells plans, pre-cut panelized kits, assemblied but unfinished cabinets, or fully completed speakers (all at very reasonable prices).

Keep in mind that (IMO) OB needs room to sound good, both space behind and between the speakers and listener.  I wouldn't try OB in smaller than a 12 ft x 20 ft room.

[JohninCR]

JLM,

When are you going to try those F200's on a baffle, so you can stop speculating about OB?  I recently got a pair of F120a's, which I assume must be voiced the same, and I'm sure your 200's will love being freed from "box jail".  The 120's are a sweet little drivers, smoother that my 108's.

[nodiak]

Hey Erik, the fact is set in reality that you 'll never know what your favorite meal is until you taste the menu. Just costs money and time and effort, like whatever else you're into - like sports equipment from runnig shoes to golf clubs, etc. . The folks with audio comrades nearby are fortunate, they can listen to each others stuff so they don't have to buy and try everything.
SI's are simple. 18's with a widerange less so but fun too. Biamping -does the Marchand xm1 work for you?  http://www.marchandelec.com/xm1.html 
Putting big drivers out of kids way...umm...grilles?
Router circle cutting jigs work great, that's supposed to be a good one. Google for some home made ones too.
Don
 

[Viridian]

Don, i wish I had seen that xm1 a week ago. Very simple. I haven't looked at the price list but probably cheaper than what I just bought.

Are there any real sonic disadvantages to using grills on woofers?

Cheers,
Erik

[nodiak]

I doubt you'd hear a difference in the bass using grilles, can take them off when danger isn't present. I did keep speakers up high and out of reach when my son was young.
Don