[Rob S.]

Hi guys,
      We're in the market for another home (  AND one with some space for my music listening )  One on our short list has a good size basement.   Thing is it has a rather long room that's 11ft wide.   I've imagined putting up a wall to enclose it.   So the dimensions could be as long as say 25ft?  Or I can go 11 x 20 or 11 x 15, or ??  Height is roughly 8.5 ft. 

I'd like to tackle the room treatments after contructing a 4th wall.   I do want the ability to have some decent size floorstanding speakers at some point.   Currently have a smaller set of Magnepans/ w/ sub.

Should I steer away from this one?

[AB]

I would say it depends on your speakers.
With the right speakers the room might work really well.

But if your  running Wilson Maxx IIs there, you are not going to be happy.

So what speakers will you run?

EDIT:

Ooops. I failed to actually READ what you had written.

Which Maggies?

[robert1325]

My room is 12ft by 12ft       I have a bass hump at 40 hz I think ....    Owned some B&W floorstanding speaks  wich where boomy... Then some Mini monitors wich where boring.   

Now the hawthornes (OB driver),  these sound great in my small room.  Go to loud but that's not always bad !        The 40hz bump is actually a good thing in this case,  the OB bass does not sound boomy at all !

[ehart]

I hope not! 

Seriously, my room is about 11x25.  It takes a lot of playing with speaker placement, and in my case, a near-field listening position.  Results are good, especially if you can do some room treatment.

You might want to search over at Audiogon, there have been a number of threads there about short-wall vs. long-wall placement in this situation.

- Eric

[Rob S.]

Thanks for the input so far, guess I need to dig deeper in the threads.

My Maggies are the old version MG.6's ( very similar to the current MG12's ) with upgraded outboard crossovers and my homemade stands.  Their 20" wide and 50" tall.  Sound is excellent, but I will likely try something different, maybe bigger maggies or OB5's or other high end kit speaker. Mine do extremely well in smallish rooms.  I just don't want to limit myself to only "small room" speakers if I have some choices now.

I'm going back to the house to see if the side (internal wall) behind the stairs could be moved without too much loss of support.   Maybe 13' or 14' could be freed up in room width.  Is it safe to think that a 14 x 20-25 ft room could support some decent size floorstanders.  OB7's,  Maggie 3.6's, LS6's, or other full range floor stander?

On the other hand, if the room width must stay at its 11ft width, how long should the long wall be to be optimum 15-25ft?   I'm thinking the speakers would still go on the short 11ft wall?  right?


Rob S.

[ryno]

Hi Rob
My room is ~12' wide and 20' long, which opens up to another room, so really ~ 30' long. My MG12's are on the short wall ~ 4' out into the room. It's not a dedicated room but I have some treatments, heavy drapes on the front wall, a couple of bass traps on the front corners, and first reflection points. This plus a little eq and it's not bad. Perfect, no. If your room is dedicated to audio, you could do better than me. I don't know about the 3.6's, I already feel I'm to close to the side walls. Do you use eq on your sub?
Ryan

[warnerwh]

My room is 12x17 and I use VMPS RM 40's and a pair of diy subs each with 15" drivers. The sound is incredible and the large speakers do NOT over power the room at all.

My system is surrounded by 3" and 4" acoustic wedge foam 5' out on both side walls as well as the ceiling. Also behind the system that wall is also completely covered with same. In each corner I have diy bass traps.

Acoustics in this room are outstanding. My room is close to being LEDE or live end dead end. Some will tell you it's too much and kills dynamics. Nobody who's heard my system thinks there's the slightest bit missing in the dynamics department.

Whatever you do be sure to make it a good acoustical environment, it is as important as speakers almost and can make a huge improvement in your sound.

My last system which I also had at another house with very little treatment sounded completely different and much much better in the room I built in my basement at this house. It actually took me a couple of days to absorb how much improvement just having good acoustics made. Once you do it you'll know it's a first priority anytime you're setting up a system.

[Ethan Winer]

Rob,

> it has a rather long room that's 11ft wide <

Long and narrow is not nearly as bad as short and narrow.

One of the main causes of peaks and nulls is closeness of the wall behind you. Get the rear wall far enough back and you'll solve the worst of the bass response issues. However, you want to avoid a 2-to-1 ratio. 25 by 11 is not terrible, but 27 by 11 is better. You can try various dimensions using the free ModeCalc program on my company's site. Or just click the screen shot to see a list of 8 "recommended" ratios.

--Ethan

[michaelv]

My room is 12x14, lots of bass traps and acoustic panels...

I have struggled with speaker placement in my room (i have Totem Forrest).  After trying several different methods that i learn from this forum, i've come up with mixed and matched rule. I sit a bit near the rear wall. Even though it's not perfect,but i am happy now. 

[Rob Babcock]

I hope not! 

Seriously, my room is about 11x25.  It takes a lot of playing with speaker placement, and in my case, a near-field listening position.  Results are good, especially if you can do some room treatment.
- Eric

Wow, that's eerie- the dimensions of the basement of my new house are 10.5' x 24'!

[Carlman]

I have a room that's 11x13 with a 9' ceiling.  I wouldn't wish it on anyone.  I basically had to line the walls with panels of various thicknesses... and added floor-to-ceiling bass traps in every corner.  It was not bad but not ideal.... my goal was to remove the room from the equation.  11' wide isn't wide enough for me.  I want some space for the soundstage to 'bloom' into.  My next room is 16.5' wide... length will be wherever I put a wall... likely 23' or so... haven't decided yet.

11x24 might have a somewhat 'cozy' soundstage, probably not bad at all, though with the length you've got.  Try listening to people talk while you're in the room to get a sense of how it'll be... or what you'll need to do.

-C

[TONEPUB]

If you've got a small room, go for smaller speakers!  I'll bet you can get some decent
sound.  I used to have a pair of Acoustat 1+1's in an 11 x 14 room and got great sound!

With panels though, whenever you can get em out from the side walls, they really open
up.

Good luck on the quest!

[bpape]

In a smaller room, a set of monitors and a sub provides a ton more flexibility.  Placement for bass response is critical but there just isn't the room to play and still keep good distance for the mains and good imaging.

Bryan

[1000a]

is 11 wide to small I would say not  and the speakers chosen would be extremely important.

my listening area is 11 wide by say 13 deep (it does have an opening to another room, I guess helps with reflections) have Odyssey nightingales 38" towers (currently called Lyras- revelation audio) they are narrow and I do not have to deal with speaker stands, do a pretty good job moving walls IMS IMR. I definitely use a sub, love to get as much of the total image as I can.  Every thing I have learned about audio so far is there are always compromises so give me a big room and I probably will have other issues that come up.  It seems the more I study here and there and then try the implementations the better it keeps getting, but it has take me an enormous amount of time fun but long effort pays off.

my listening area is about a third off the rear wall, soundstage can seem really pretty wide on the right material w great depth even though I can not move spkrs into room a great deal.  i think that room can sound great, just takes some effort.  most importantly my guess is non analytical speakers - a must- nothing in your face.  say with a slightly ressed soundstage- moving presentation back somewhat to make the semi nearfield situation more expansive.  my take,

it does seem like many of us have rooms smaller than we would like, but have made em work well.  I do have 2 others choices in my home for my stereo but they got their problems even eqnoring 1 is an office and the other a bedroom, where are the windows, dam that closet and on and on, I can get more length and 2 foot more width but wind up with flexible second floor instead of sturdy solid 1st floor and then I got worse room ratios so there ya go.  Not to mention I really enjoy having the audio and video in the same area of my small home.

Follow Ethan's lead on the better basic room ratios if thats possible!  hope this was helpful.

In my room soundstage became much airier, with better spacing betten players with bass traps, therefore improving what I do have, hail room treatments!!!  MidFi in treated room beats Hifi in untreated room every time! 

[JLM]

I followed the Cardias room ratios: 1 x 1.6 x 2.6 to arrive at an 8 ft x 13 ft x 22 ft room.  See if one of Ethan's ratios fit your final ceiling height and width.  Obviously bigger is better.

Insulate all interior walls (building a double or staggered stud) wall. 

Install a suspended ceiling with no recessed lights and insulate above.

Use 5/8 inch drywall (much stiffer than 1/2 inch drywall).

Use flexible/insulated ductwork to serve the room.

Use a weathersealed/insulated fiberglass exterior door.

Run one or more dedicated audio circuits (from the top of the electrical panel if possible) using 12 gauge (biggest allowed by code).

Use hospital grade (or better yet Cryo'd hospital grade) receptacles.

I'd try to angle the back wall to minimize standing waves.


All this really shouldn't cost too much.  As we were building at the time anyway, it added less than $500.


Add treatments as needed.


Get ready for a seriously (spooky) quiet, good sounding room.