[TheChairGuy]

I'm not really sure that power cords truly matter (I'm slightly more of the opinion that they do, however), but NOT debatable is that an IEC jack is just more handy.  It's easier to move a piece of equipment out (especially if it's in a rack) and replace it with another.

As many/most of us have been at this awhile, we often have multiples of various gear in our homes.  The ones with IEC jacks are just simply easier to use and swap out.

George, and a couple others here, seem to be the most prodigious amp swappers (typically the heaviest piece of corded gear you'll likely buy), so they probably appreciate IEC jacks all the more 

[BrianM]

...solely based on what is there - not what isn't.

That's having it both ways, of course, but I won't press the issue.

Different binding posts made of different materials sound different - same with power cords.  Everybody can take those comments and do with them what they want.

Then I assume one had better make sure ALL the materials in the circuit are the same as what is used for the binding post?  What if the posts on the speakers are different from what's on the amp?  What are the Moscode posts made of as opposed to the AVA?

Couldn't the same be said of somebody who purchased an AVA amp and subsequently found something better?

Yup, if the something is a better AMP, and not a matter of reducing an amp's ultimate performance to the supposed quality of its power cord. Your point is taken!  We agree to disagree.  I guess the idea that a $5000 amplifier, which is so obviously well-executed with loving attention to detail, should require its *AC feed* to be upgraded in order to meet its raw potential, strikes me as, um, silly. I thought good transformers were major RFI chokes, and I don't really understand what else could be involved than AC to DC power.  But here I go debating...

As for the HT3/5A comparison...still haven't gotten around to writing that yet.

Well, tear yourself away from them and get on it!

[BrianM]

I cannot explain why the effects exist.

There's the rub.  I'm pretty sure everyone I've read who says it makes a difference admits to not being able to explain why it should.  Whereas the engineers I've read who are sure it won't make a difference CAN explain why it shouldn't.  Makes me go hmm.  Anyway I would bet my house that 99.99% of the people who claim to hear a difference would fail to consistently point it out in a blind test.

My own experience only involves having compared my system plugged into an expensive power conditioner vs. plugged into the wall socket.  I could hear absolutely not a scintilla of difference.  I have really acute hearing.  Would power cords have done it?  Do they render a power conditioner moot?  Something tells me that's not what the manufacturers would say.  But here I go debating again.

I suspect the reasons manufacurers don't include higher grade power cords have to do with cost, audiophile preference, and UL listing.

If I were a manufacturer selling an expensive piece of gear on which my reputation rested, I would want to make damn sure that something that was within my control to improve the sound was included in the package.  After market power cords tend to cost a few hundred bucks retail.  That's hardly make-or-break territory for a $5000 amp.

OTOH, if I weren't all too concerned about a power cord putting my amp over the top, I would certainly leave it to "audiophile preference."

[carusoracer]

Well said in several posts regarding the explanations of the binding posts and powercord materials and placement.
I have heard the AVA in my system and it is a very nice performer at its price point. The Bass and Slam was very articulate and full for me while very deep. It had the best Bass I have heard out several Amps that I have had in the Rig.What lacked for me was the extended highs and magical Midrange albeit very nice.
What I found to be an issue with the AVA was as mentioned earlier a simply matter of placement,convenience and quality of the Binding Posts. As far as the Powercord issue it is the same thing.
 
If I would have had the ability to swap out different PC's I believe I could have improved on the sound for my particular system. If you can not hear the differences then "c'est la vie". I for one can hear them with a variety of power powercords. The best thing that made my system more consistant was room treatments and internal house rewiring

I have not posted a formal review but a tube change or two might would have possibly persuaded me even more. Others are finding out that it can make a significant difference. I for one whole heartily agree as tube rolling in my system can vastly improve the sonics.

I have yet to hear the Moscode and would certainly like to hear what it sounds like. But the overall smooth sound and price per dollar of the AVA is very competitive and good performer. In my system it was just not enough to put me over the edge based on aesthetics and other small inconveniences.
YMM. Now if somethings where changed...

[WEEZ]

My amplifier is neither a Moscode or an AVA. It has an IEC jack and came supplied with a Volex cord. It is available in a 'base' model, with various 'upgrades' available at extra cost up to over 4 times it's base cost. All models come with a Volex cord. The following is directly quoted from the owner's manual:

POWER CORDS

"If you have reached a state of bliss with your system, perhaps you are ready to experiment with IEC power cords. However, if you are not 'extreemly' satisfied with the overall sound, it is most unlikely that a power cord will solve any problems. Power cords do not suddenly make you happy with a system that is not, at the outset, satisfactory. If your system is not wide open, holographic and extreemly smooth, it is not the fault of the power cord that was shipped with the xxxxxxxxxxxx.

It is through experimentation and concentrated effort that a system is really improved. Don't get off on the wrong tangent".

For what it's worth, the designer spends much more space discussing speaker placement.....

WEEZ

[miklorsmith]

Thanks for the WEEZdom - smart words indeed.

[TheChairGuy]

Thanks for the WEEZdom - smart words indeed.

Good one, Mike 

[martyo]

Thanks for the WEEZdom - smart words indeed.

DITTO

[BrianM]

"If you have reached a state of bliss with your system, perhaps you are ready to experiment with IEC power cords. However, if you are not 'extreemly' satisfied with the overall sound, it is most unlikely that a power cord will solve any problems. Power cords do not suddenly make you happy with a system that is not, at the outset, satisfactory. If your system is not wide open, holographic and extreemly smooth, it is not the fault of the power cord that was shipped with the xxxxxxxxxxxx.

It is through experimentation and concentrated effort that a system is really improved. Don't get off on the wrong tangent".

For what it's worth, the designer spends much more space discussing speaker placement.....

I actually find this pretty incredible.  That a designer would go 9/10ths of the way to saying "power cords won't make a difference" without actually saying it!

If you've reached a state of bliss with your system, why would you want to start fiddling around with power cords?? That's a guarantee for a fall from bliss, it seems to me.  I have to conclude they're catering to people's (erroneous) preconceptions and nothing else.  Blind testing would sort it all out, but fortunately (or unfortunately) everyone gets to avoid that predicament and make their claims.

But, WEEZ, please don't tell me the manual misspells "extremely", twice.

[lonewolfny42]

My amplifier is neither a Moscode or an AVA. It has an IEC jack and came supplied with a Volex cord. It is available in a 'base' model, with various 'upgrades' available at extra cost up to over 4 times it's base cost. All models come with a Volex cord. The following is directly quoted from the owner's manual:

POWER CORDS

"If you have reached a state of bliss with your system, perhaps you are ready to experiment with IEC power cords. However, if you are not 'extreemly' satisfied with the overall sound, it is most unlikely that a power cord will solve any problems. Power cords do not suddenly make you happy with a system that is not, at the outset, satisfactory. If your system is not wide open, holographic and extreemly smooth, it is not the fault of the power cord that was shipped with the xxxxxxxxxxxx.

It is through experimentation and concentrated effort that a system is really improved. Don't get off on the wrong tangent".

For what it's worth, the designer spends much more space discussing speaker placement.....

WEEZ

Don....
Just curious....did you ever just try another power cord....you know....just to see if you "might" hear something different ? Thanks......

                                      Chris

[lonewolfny42]

Blind testing......blind testing.....OK.....I'm ready....



..............(I couldn't help myself.... )

[zybar]

Blind testing......blind testing.....OK.....I'm ready....



..............(I couldn't help myself.... )

Chris,

Are you blind testing or blind tasting?   aa

George

[richidoo]

BrianM, I agree that power conditioners are not always what they're cracked up to be, but not from noticing no difference, on the contrary, every one I have tried including brands touted by superstars of AC have seriously damaged the sound of the amps I have used them on - all tube or hybrid amps. I understand the reasons for them and keep my mind open for conditioners that try new methods. But I proceed with caution. My power is good so I am lucky to be able to ignore it. Others can't have hifi without one.

I tried upgrade powercords just recently for the first time. Previously content with computer cords. I heard a noticeable and obvious improvement in almost every aspect of the sound. The two PCs are priced at 25% of the cost of the amps. Outrageous, but they work to my ears and it makes sense scientifically too. Although I believe soldering the wall romex directly to the power transformer would be even better but illegal unless you bolt down the amp to the house frame.

Binding posts are critical part in the signal chain. Anywhere you have a disconnectable connection you are asking for trouble in increased resistance at non-soldered contact, potential corrosion, and potential for creating EMI/RF through microscopic arcing. Good metallurgy and good mechanical design in this sensitive spot go a long way to improving sound by reducing resistance and holding on tight over the years despite large temperature swings. Doing it without a wrench is nice too, I like WBT best because of the "washer bushing" that doesn't twist the wire when tightening.

These kinds of subtle tweaks are most obvious when the rest of the system is transparent enough to reveal the changes. Speaker posts make no difference on a $300 HT receiver, that's why they are nickel plated stamped steel covered in plastic. If I had those same speaker posts on my 100watt tube monoblock amps playing into sensitive low distortion full range speakers I would easily be able to hear the difference. Maybe not as obvious upgrading from the already good enough ones on AVA equipment to cardas all copper rhodium plated, less bang for the buck. I know that the posts on the Moscode amp are incredible, easily as good as anything in the aftermarket. Large, machined solid copper, knurled, easy to use. I used to have a link for aftermarket seller of them, but can't find it now, my point is they are not cheap! AVA is built to a price, it's not trying to be a Ferrari, instead focused on superb value.

It is fair to compare AVA's amp to one costing 2.5 times more money because AVA advertises it to be comparable to higher priced equipment. Zybar's short comparison hints once again that Frank is a straight shooter and knows what he has created and knows it can hold its own.

Nice review George.
Rich

[lonewolfny42]

Maybe a little of both there George....

[WEEZ]

Brian, the spelling is correct in the owner's manual. It's me that can't spell. Went to public schools.

[WEEZ]

Chris, yes, I used to use some pretty expensive cables and cords. But not anymore.

[BrianM]

I tried upgrade powercords just recently for the first time. Previously content with computer cords. I heard a noticeable and obvious improvement in almost every aspect of the sound. The two PCs are priced at 25% of the cost of the amps. Outrageous, but they work to my ears and it makes sense scientifically too. Although I believe soldering the wall romex directly to the power transformer would be even better but illegal unless you bolt down the amp to the house frame.

So how exactly does it make sense scientifically? Are we talking about the quality of the connection or the quality of the wire or both? I find it fascinating that a $500-1000 cord is just doing the job that ordinary wall romex soldered to the transformer would do.  Don't they tend to brag about how special the wire is?  If it's the quality of the connection, well, Frank's is built in, so that would suggest an inherent superiority to me.

Binding posts are critical part in the signal chain. Anywhere you have a disconnectable connection you are asking for trouble in increased resistance at non-soldered contact, potential corrosion, and potential for creating EMI/RF through microscopic arcing.

All of which, I would think, is taken care of by quality locking banana plugs (or spades) inserted into a gold-plated (good conducting, non-corroding) post. I guess I'll read up on why solid copper for a fraction of an inch in a circuit makes such a big difference.

These kinds of subtle tweaks are most obvious when the rest of the system is transparent enough to reveal the changes. Speaker posts make no difference on a $300 HT receiver, that's why they are nickel plated stamped steel covered in plastic.

No, I would think if you're going to defend ultra-expensive speaker posts you have to take the position that they will make a difference across the board.  Provided your speakers can reproduce the difference, a higher-grade binding post ought to pass signal better on a $300 receiver just the same as a $5000 amp.  If the weakness is the connection between the amp and speakers, then logic dictates it will degrade ANY component's signal.  Or am I missing something.

If I had those same speaker posts on my 100watt tube monoblock amps playing into sensitive low distortion full range speakers I would easily be able to hear the difference. Maybe not as obvious upgrading from the already good enough ones on AVA equipment to cardas all copper rhodium plated, less bang for the buck. I know that the posts on the Moscode amp are incredible, easily as good as anything in the aftermarket. Large, machined solid copper, knurled, easy to use. I used to have a link for aftermarket seller of them, but can't find it now, my point is they are not cheap! AVA is built to a price, it's not trying to be a Ferrari, instead focused on superb value.

All this would be fine if these things were ever spoken of or treated as "subtle tweaks."  But no one EVER says "the machined solid knurled copper rhodium plated posts made a subtle difference in my sound quality, which my subtle speakers [not to mention the rest of my - what, reference grade? - equipment] were capable of revealing."  Because your sources had better be tip-top, too, I would think.  Not only that, how the heck does anyone KNOW how these particular posts "sound" on the Moscode amp? Other than maybe George Kaye I suppose, who might have ever heard a Moscode amp without them.  A signal passes through conductive material on its way from one component to the next.  Gold vs. copper.  Or silver.  I'm to believe the solid copper half-inch along a circuit will provide a more transparent midrange and extended highs, as opposed to, you know, the actual quality of the amplification of the signal doing those things.  It's just an awful lot to believe.  Not that there may not be some very slight differences.  I assume there are, though I doubt I could hear them reliably (I mean, what if the refrigerator suddenly cut on?).  But people tend to speak in terms of good vs. bad here.

It is fair to compare AVA's amp to one costing 2.5 times more money because AVA advertises it to be comparable to higher priced equipment. Zybar's short comparison hints once again that Frank is a straight shooter and knows what he has created and knows it can hold its own.

And it would be very interesting to know which corners Frank knows, in his own mind, he has cut that may make the difference between his amp and the more expensive one.  Is it all about the cost of parts, or does it boil down to engineering know-how and "physiognomical" decisions?

[BrianM]

BTW, I hate gambling. I intensely dislike throwing my money away on risky investments. It's why I stopped investing in stocks and now exclusively invest in a well diversified mutual fund portfolio. So, you know I must be pretty confident of my listening ability to accept your bet. 

tvad, I'm happy to give you benefit of the doubt as belonging to that 0.01%.

Cheers...

[miklorsmith]

 

[BrianM]

In other news, Paris Hilton began serving her jail sentence...