[zybar]

Zybar,

What speakers did you use?

W

My system can be found here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/systems/index.php?systemid=711

Here is a picture:



George

[Toka]

Zybar,

Excellent write-up! An enviable audition to be sure. I wonder...since the Moscode allows for easy/quick tube swapping, would you consider trying it with the same JJ's that are in the AVA amp?

[warnerwh]

Zybar,

Excellent write-up! An enviable audition to be sure. I wonder...since the Moscode allows for easy/quick tube swapping, would you consider trying it with the same JJ's that are in the AVA amp?

I'd like to hear your opinion about that too. You'll note in an earlier post without my Mullards in my AVA amp it's not nearly so good for my system. Your system will certainly let you know the difference too. If you're going to have the AVA for a while let me know and I'll send you a couple of Mullards to try. I could probably get to the post office and priority them to you in the next 2 days.

[zybar]

I thought the AVA amp used 12AT7 tubes?  If that is correct, I am not sure it those could even be used in the Moscode amp.

It is all a moot point anyway as the amp is back to the owner who was nice enough to let me borrow it.

George

[yooper]

Good read George, Thanks.

A lot to think about for those of us thinking of buying one of these amps (which I am).  A question I ask myself is, while the Moscode is a great amp, is it worth close to $3000.00 dollars more than the AVA, I guess only I can answer that. 

The extra money saved would allow me to also purchase one of Frank's pre-amps.  Something to think about.

Mark

[BrianM]

Interesting, zybar, when I click on the picture of your system it shows a gallery featuring the Salk HT3s first. I take it you replaced them with the Vandersteens. How long did that take?

[zybar]

Interesting, zybar, when I click on the picture of your system it shows a gallery featuring the Salk HT3s first. I take it you replaced them with the Vandersteens. How long did that take?

I had the HT3's for around 2 years as my main speakers before I had an opportunity to buy my friend's 5A's at a price that I couldn't pass up.

What does replacing my Salk HT3's with Vandy 5A's have to do with the amp comparison?

George

[BrianM]

What does replacing my Salk HT3's with Vandy 5A's have to do with the amp comparison?

Nothing that I can think of. Is that a rhetorical question? I was just curious.

[zybar]

What does replacing my Salk HT3's with Vandy 5A's have to do with the amp comparison?

Nothing that I can think of. Is that a rhetorical question? I was just curious.

Sorry about my snippy response.

George

[BrianM]

Sorry about my snippy response.

Not at all dude.  One more thing I'm curious about: I notice you're selling the Moscode on Audiogon. What will you be replacing it with?

[zybar]

Sorry about my snippy response.

Not at all dude.  One more thing I'm curious about: I notice you're selling the Moscode on Audiogon. What will you be replacing it with?

Not sure yet...

I have two amps in house right now:

Response Audio Bella Extreme 100 (60 watts triode)

Audio Mirror 45 watt parallel SET mono amps


Once I get the RSL II speakers, I plan on getting in some lowered power SET amps as well.

George

[fsimms]

I recently was able to listen to the latest AVA Fet Valve Ultra 550 with the stock tubes.

I directly compared it to my Moscode 401HR (which has NOS Siemens Greyplate CCA's from the 1950's plus a Black Sand Silver Ref Mk V power cord) in my system which I know very well.

I noticed that you used selected tubes for the Moscode and stock tubes for the AVA.  Is the difference between the AVA and the Moscode similar to the differences that you found in the Moscode with different tubes?   That is, do you think that there is a chance that different tubes could bring the AVA up to the level of the Moscode?

PS Thanks for the written comparison.  I always look forward to your comments.  I trust your judgements.

[zybar]

I recently was able to listen to the latest AVA Fet Valve Ultra 550 with the stock tubes.

I directly compared it to my Moscode 401HR (which has NOS Siemens Greyplate CCA's from the 1950's plus a Black Sand Silver Ref Mk V power cord) in my system which I know very well.

I noticed that you used selected tubes for the Moscode and stock tubes for the AVA.  Is the difference between the AVA and the Moscode similar to the differences that you found in the Moscode with different tubes?   That is, do you think that there is a chance that different tubes could bring the AVA up to the level of the Moscode?

I do believe that you can improve the AVA amp with different tubes (as has been reported by warnerwh), but I don't think that will close the gap significantly.  As others have said about the Moscode, it is pretty damn good in its stock form.

Now if you also put better binding posts, allow for after market power cords, etc... the gap would close further.

George

George

[BrianM]

George-
Could you explain why you think different binding posts or a different power cord would close the gap in the sound between these two amps? I would think the differences would have vastly more to do with the internal circuitry.

[zybar]

George-
Could you explain why you think different binding posts or a different power cord would close the gap in the sound between these two amps? I would think the differences would have vastly more to do with the internal circuitry.

Brian,

I agree that the general topology and internal circuitry is the primary reason for the differences. 

However, I do believe those other areas do make a difference (I know Frank doesn't).

I would prefer to not have this thread turn into a debate on the subject of power cords, binding posts, etc...

We all know where that leads to...

George

[Charles Calkins]

Yo George!!
  I see that your search for audio excellence is still going on. Moscode for sale and more amps in house for try out. All I gotta say is that you are one very interesting dude. I hope I live long enough to hear you say "At last I've got the perfect system" Keep us posted on your quest. I for one like to read your reports on audio gear. Always very interesting.

                                                       Cheers
                                                      Charlie

[zybar]

Yo George!!
  I see that your search for audio excellence is still going on. Moscode for sale and more amps in house for try out. All I gotta say is that you are one very interesting dude. I hope I live long enough to hear you say "At last I've got the perfect system" Keep us posted on your quest. I for one like to read your reports on audio gear. Always very interesting.

                                                       Cheers
                                                      Charlie

Thanks Charlie.

Unfortunately, when you change speakers you also need to revisit your amp choices.

As a buddy recently said to me...why did you ever leave tubes in the first place?   

As for the perfect system...I don't think there is a such a beast. 

Now if I had the room and money for say 3-5 systems of varying types... aa

George

[lonewolfny42]

George....

As for the perfect system...I don't think there is a such a beast.

I think your right....but you can get .....close.

Now if I had the room and money for say 3-5 systems of varying types...

You.....can.....do....it ! Then you would have a nice variety...

Have fun with the auditions....some nice stuff...

                                        Chris

[BrianM]

Brian,

I agree that the general topology and internal circuitry is the primary reason for the differences. 

However, I do believe those other areas do make a difference (I know Frank doesn't).

I would prefer to not have this thread turn into a debate on the subject of power cords, binding posts, etc...

We all know where that leads to...

George

Well I'll say this. I wouldn't know how to begin debating binding posts (I personally am aware of no reason why it could be more than a matter of having a sturdy, corrosion-free connection). Your quibble with the AVA amp appeared to address convenience/ergonomics, i.e. the fact that you couldn't easily hook your spade lugs to it. But if you can HEAR the difference between spades and bananas in a blind test you've probably got better ears than me.

But, there's no escaping the simple fact, that to assert that an amp's sound would improve with a different binding post (or power cord, or whatever), all other things being equal, is an arbitrary thing to say. You have no way of knowing it!  I know, it's no doubt an educated guess based on your prior experience with spades vs. bananas or what have you -- but IMO the only thing one need grasp about small-order tweaks is the highly contingent nature of the improvements to be had. What works for one component, by all accounts I've ever noticed, may not work for another.

So whether or not these little tweaks are debatable, or reality-based -- and by all means let's not have that debate -- I still don't think it's quite reasonable to judge a piece of equipment based on their ABSENCE, as opposed to their presence, unless you're a surpassingly knowledgeable reverse-engineer, I suppose.  Which for all I know you are.  If you hard-wire a different power cord to an AVA amp and discern an improvement, well and good.

None of that is to question what you did hear, of course. It was great to read, and made me both wishful that I had the means to plug and play as much as you appear to do, and thankful that I can't.  And doubly thankful that I'm not in mind of my power cords...   How upsetting to buy as nice an amp as the Moscode only to find that an additional few bills are requisite for maximum enjoyment!

BTW did you ever post a comparo of the Vandy to the HT3? Would like to read something about that.

[zybar]

Brian,

I agree that the general topology and internal circuitry is the primary reason for the differences. 

However, I do believe those other areas do make a difference (I know Frank doesn't).

I would prefer to not have this thread turn into a debate on the subject of power cords, binding posts, etc...

We all know where that leads to...

George

Well I'll say this. I wouldn't know how to begin debating binding posts (I personally am aware of no reason why it could be more than a matter of having a sturdy, corrosion-free connection). Your quibble with the AVA amp appeared to address convenience/ergonomics, i.e. the fact that you couldn't easily hook your spade lugs to it. But if you can HEAR the difference between spades and bananas in a blind test you've probably got better ears than me.

But, there's no escaping the simple fact, that to assert that an amp's sound would improve with a different binding post (or power cord, or whatever), all other things being equal, is an arbitrary thing to say. You have no way of knowing it!  I know, it's no doubt an educated guess based on your prior experience with spades vs. bananas or what have you -- but IMO the only thing one need grasp about small-order tweaks is the highly contingent nature of the improvements to be had. What works for one component, by all accounts I've ever noticed, may not work for another.

So whether or not these little tweaks are debatable, or reality-based -- and by all means let's not have that debate -- I still don't think it's quite reasonable to judge a piece of equipment based on their ABSENCE, as opposed to their presence, unless you're a surpassingly knowledgeable reverse-engineer, I suppose.  Which for all I know you are.  If you hard-wire a different power cord to an AVA amp and discern an improvement, well and good.

None of that is to question what you did hear, of course. It was great to read, and made me both wishful that I had the means to plug and play as much as you appear to do, and thankful that I can't.  And doubly thankful that I'm not in mind of my power cords...   Up

BTW did you ever post a comparo of the Vandy to the HT3? Would like to read something about that.

Brian,

When I gave my snippets above and when I post my full review on the sound of the AVA amp, it is solely based on what is there - not what isn't. 

My comments on the other areas (binding posts, power cords, etc...) are based on my experience with pretty much all other amps I have tried.  Different binding posts made of different materials sound different - same with power cords.  Everybody can take those comments and do with them what they want.

Brian, up above you said:

"How upsetting to buy as nice an amp as the Moscode only to find that an additional few bills are requisite for maximum enjoyment!"

 

Couldn't the same be said when somebody purchases an AVA amp and subsequently finds something better?   aa

You don't always have to spend more money to achieve a higher level of enjoyment.  For example, the Moscode replaced a BAT VK-600SE in my system.  The BAT amp lists for $13k and is substantially more money than the Moscode.  Some of the amps I will be trying with the RSL II speakers this summer will be substantially less than the Moscode in cost (some as little as 1/5th the price of the Moscode). 

Anyway, I am glad we can have such a good discussion.

As for the HT3/5A comparison...still haven't gotten around to writing that yet.   

George