Tweaking the 9.0

Marbles · « **on:** 27 Jul 2003, 05:40 pm »

The first tweak is free

try proping the rear legs up so that the baffle is pointing directly at you when you are in your listening position and not pointing over your head.

This puts you on axis with the drivers and not off axis.

Tweak 2. The older braided internal speaker wire (yellow/red) was very good IMO, but the newer non braided speaker wire (red/black) is not. I got the biggest bang recently from replacing this new nOrh wire with Bolder Nitro internal wiring. This is expensive at $300 but VERY well worth it IMO.

Tweak 3. The Multicaps are very good, but some older models have Benics. You might want to try replacing these Benics with same value Soniccaps.

My 9.0's are now awesome...with the exception of trying Curt's PT-2 to integrate some subs with them (and I don't feel a strong need for this) I'm pretty much done with my ref system for a long time.

jackman · « **Reply #1 on:** 27 Jul 2003, 07:26 pm »

Great news Marbles. Congratulations on putting the "Final touches" on your system. I have a question regarding the internal wires. While I have found wires and IC's to make a positive difference in my system (I have Zu speaker wires and Bolder IC's and digital cables), I did not find internal wires (the stuff between the crossover and the drivers) to make as much or any difference at all. Did you compare the Nitro cable with speaker with the standard one before making your assessment? $200 isn't a lot of money, but I don't know if I could hear the difference between the two (at least I couldn't in my own experience). I do agree that caps can make a difference and that Sonicaps are a real value.

What gives?

J

Marbles · « **Reply #2 on:** 27 Jul 2003, 07:50 pm »

Quote from: jackman

Great news Marbles. Congratulations on putting the "Final touches" on your system. I have a question regarding the internal wires. While I have found wires and IC's to make a positive difference in my system (I have Zu speaker wires and Bolder IC's and digital cables), I did not find internal wires (the stuff between the crossover and the drivers) to make as much or any difference at all. Did you compare the Nitro cable with speaker with the standard one before making your assessment? $200 isn't a lot o ...

Jman,

It's both the wires from the terminals to the XO and the wires from the XO to the drivers. I've had this pair of 9.0's for a year or two and other ones with the old wire and Benic caps for around 4 years. I listen to them daily for several hours a day. When the new wire went in, the focus of the imaging tightened between the speakers, and most of the imaging outside the speakers disapeared except when on the recording(AFAIK). Bass tightened up even further, and cymbals sound like they have nothing between the wood and the metal if you know what I mean. Everything came sharper into focus with no bad side effects that I can tell.

I have not A/B'ed and don't intend to..the new wire is not leaving these speakers

This might give an indication that although the new nOrh wire is made from silver, that it has no geometry to help it, and it is a bit thick and in the IC's at least it tended to "smear" the sound some.

Having listened to other speakers with the same or similar drivers and liking them better, I knew it had to be the XO, or the wiring or both. For me I think the XO's with the multicaps are just fine after changing the wire.

I've satisfied myself that the new nOrh wire is not up to the best, or even up to nOrh's old wire which was braided silver and a thinner diameter.

If you have the old wire and multi-caps in the XO, no need to do anything IMO.

If you have Benics, new wire or both, then you can make significant improvements IMO.

Jman, the thing that finally convinced me to try to upgrade the wire was when I replaced my SME phono cable from the tonearm to the phono pre with Nitro. The internal wire was still left in the tonearm, but the change was pretty big for me.

I was wondering if all the wire in the XO would nullify the internal wiring. I'm glad I went for it.

I don't make these recomendations for any other speaker than the 9.0.

As always YMMV.

jackman · « **Reply #3 on:** 27 Jul 2003, 08:03 pm »

Marbles, no problem. It's great to hear that you like the improvements to your system. I'm not surprised at all that the new capacitors improve the performance over the stock Bennic's. The improved wires in the turntable are also a great area of improvement. Wayne does great work. I have done some experimentation with my internal wires in some speakers and could not hear the difference, but they were not nOrh 9's or my Ellis and probably could not produce the detail to show the differences anyway. The new Ellis crossovers sound much more pleasing to my ears (more depth, more bass, same transparency without being as forward) but I never messed with the wires because the thin wire used for the tweeter has a set amount of resistance and is functional in that it replaces a resistor in the xover design (the wire resistance acts as a resistor).

Your system sounds awesome. It's cool that you have incorporated vinyl! Keep us posted on your integration of the subs, I'll need help in this area soon!

Jack

KKM · « **Reply #4 on:** 28 Jul 2003, 03:37 pm »

Marbles,
Don't know about the 9.0's, but the 6.9's have bare walls and was wondering if lining the inside or putting some type of polyfill will help, every speaker I've ever seen has one or the other, I would think it would only help. Also the crossover is directly behind the woofer, within inches, I would think that at least putting it upside down, behind the tweeter, would also help.

Marbles · « **Reply #5 on:** 28 Jul 2003, 03:49 pm »

KKM, I haven't tried to line the cabinet of the 9.0's, but I get no ringing etc... from mine..at least none that I've noticed.

The XO's of the 9.0's are put in very very well and I don't envy anyone who has to take them out or reposition them. Good idea for MB on future 9.0's though, the placement of the XO that is. Mine are mounted on the side between the woofer and tweeter. I really don't hear any negative impact with them there, but it could be like a lot of things....you don't know until you try something different.

I have some custom 9.0's that are column shaped and I plan on getting some Black Hole #5 for them as at higher volumes I notice distortion not present in the horn shaped speakers. I'm guessing it is sound waves bouncing back through the drivers. I will do this when I also get new speaker wire for them.

Since I just decided to do this yesterday and Wayne is on vacation, it might take a month or so before I get around to it.

Jay S · « **Reply #6 on:** 28 Jul 2003, 06:13 pm »

If you are interesting in tweaking the 9.0 you may want to talk to Jeff Glowacki @ Sonic Craft. He has actual experience with the 9.0. Once I get an extra pair of XO boards (too much trouble to try to remove the old ones!) I'm going to get a bunch of Soniccaps and Mills resistors from him. He is a good guy. He took a look at the XO schematic I sent him and I was pleased that he made it a point to tell me which parts I should not bother upgrading as they have little impact on the sound.

Marbles · « **Reply #7 on:** 28 Jul 2003, 06:18 pm »

For those playing along at home, Jay has Benic caps in his XO.

Jay S · « **Reply #8 on:** 28 Jul 2003, 06:31 pm »

Yup, you can see a pic of the XO board, with the caps, resistors, inductors and the unbraided nOrh wiring here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=7

jackman · « **Reply #9 on:** 28 Jul 2003, 06:37 pm »

Jay,
It's good to hear that you are in touch with Jeff G, from soniccraft.com. Dr. J knows more about caps than any person I have ever met, plus, he's a really good guy. He would not try to sell you something you don't need. He's also a talented speaker designer. He did some highly rated tweeks on Newform speakers and could probably work some magic on that nOrh 9.0 crossover. I haven't spoken with Jeff in a while, but have had some very enlightening and educational conversations with him over the years. Keep us posted on the results of your tweaking!

Jack

jones rush · « **Reply #10 on:** 4 Aug 2003, 12:56 am »

I never did understand it, why are the 9.0s angled up ?, to which audiophilic purpose exactly ?.

Marbles · « **Reply #11 on:** 4 Aug 2003, 01:13 am »

They were angled to "time align" the drivers

jones rush · « **Reply #12 on:** 4 Aug 2003, 01:49 am »

Quote from: Marbles

They were angled to "time align" the drivers

So, why does the tweak say to angle them down ?.

Marbles · « **Reply #13 on:** 4 Aug 2003, 01:55 am »

Because IMO the time alignment doesn't work per the design and in most setups (but not all) it shoots the signal over peoples heads, thus they are off axis. If you have not tried to have the baffles pointing directly at you, you should try it to see if you like it better.

If not, no harm no foul.

jqp · « **Reply #14 on:** 4 Aug 2003, 03:52 am »

Quote from: Marbles

They were angled to "time align" the drivers

I think they were angled up because they were designed to sit on a 20" standard end-table.

Jay S · « **Reply #15 on:** 4 Aug 2003, 04:08 am »

My stands are 20.5" inches high and from 9 feet away the tweeters are pointed at my head. Use tall stands and sit further away and you'll certainly be off axis.