[robert1325]

Hi,

My dad is downscaling his system, he already sold his main sources ( Wadia 23 and Linn Lp12) ,  he wants a simple musical system consisting of a squeezebox and some nice amplification.    He is not sure about the speakers yet,  is he going the high effiency rout or does he keep his precious B&W monitors (big) ...

He has used them with audion silver night 300B PP amps for 10 years with great joy, but his tubes are worn out and he is unsure whether it's worth replacing them or going for something else/ better.  They are about 20 wpc.     

How would the sig 30 drive his B&W's ,   or maybe some hawthorne SI's?     

And does the sig 30 need an active pre with a passive output cap coupled squeezebox ( boldercables probably)    He feels he might miss the drive of his very beefy sounding wadia...  my squeezebox sounds thin and rounded of on the low-end compared to his CDP.

A lot of questions but I'd apreciate some thoughts on this subject

[chckr]

I run a Sig-30 with B&W Nautilus 805's and they're great.  Generally, I prefer a tube preamp with them to get them to come alive but even without an active pre, they're fine at moderate volumes in a medium (12x15x8) room (the whole active vs passive pre is a whole different thread).   With my phono pre, the output is lower than the CD player and the Sig-30 without an active preamp stretchs a bit to drive the 805s.  I replaced an old Eico (35w tubes) with the Sig-30 and I really like the Sig-30 but it doesn't have the same 'oomph' as the Eico (but is much, much quieter .   But the 805 are small monitors so with big B&Ws, the Sig-30 may not be enough.  That said, Vinnie would be your best source of info...

[Vinnie R.]

Hi Robert,

How would the sig 30 drive his B&W's ,   or maybe some hawthorne SI's?     

The 801S2 is an 87dB, 8-ohm (4-ohm min) speaker.  I don't see the Signature 30 having any problem driving them. 

The Hawthorne SIs are a lot more efficient and again, the Sig 30 would have no problem with them.  If your dad is thinking of going the High Efficiency route, there are plenty of others to also consider!

And does the sig 30 need an active pre with a passive output cap coupled squeezebox ( boldercables probably)    He feels he might miss the drive of his very beefy sounding wadia...  my squeezebox sounds thin and rounded of on the low-end compared to his CDP.

I recommend feeding the modded SB3 directly into the Sig 30.... no active pre needed.  The Bolder Cable modded SB3 will work very nicely with it.  Sit the SB3 on top of the Sig 30, use a short interconnect cable (less than or equal to 0.5 meter will work), and you can even use the SB3's remote volume control. 

Hi chckr,

If I have not already said so... welcome to Audiocircle and the RWA forum!

But the 805 are small monitors so with big B&Ws, the Sig-30 may not be enough.

Sometimes, the larger multi-way speakers are actually more efficient than the smaller monitors, so they play louder with less power.  The 801 S2s use a big ol' 12" bass driver, so they should be able to deliver more oomph than the smaller 805's... but I never tried them so this is just a guess. 

Thanks for posting,

Vinnie

[chckr]

Thanks Vinnie.   I like my Sig-30 more and more everytime I listen, really does improve with age.   I've moved it up to the office and am running passive now.   So quiet and smooth, it's great for enjoying a book in front of the fire with of course, a glass of red wine.      But it's getting more expensive.  My wife and I went out furniture shopping yesterday to find a new easy chair to complete the combo.   

Good point on the larger speakers potentially being more efficient.   I thought I heard the big B&W's were power hungry but I could be wrong on that.   Specs are certainly similar as the N805 manual lists the 805's as being  88dB spl sensitivity with a nominal impedance of 8 ohm with a 4.6 ohm minimum.  I believe the original Stereophile review of the N805's resulted in similar numbers.

The only 'power' problem I've had with the Sig-30 is when using a phono preamp (the red Bellari tube model).   My cartridge is a Shure V15 (medium output MM) and the only way to get it to play loud enough is to crank the gain up on the Bellari which adds lots of hiss to the mix which is painfully apparent with the ultra-quiet Sig-30.   What are others using for a phono preamp?   I know there's some new battery models out but most are pricey.   Any recommendations in the $500-$1000 range?

[alinto]

I used to own a pair of b&w 801 series 2. Sorry Vinnie, but I don't think you can get the best out of the 801 with the power available from the sig 30.  I originally had the 801 running with a classe dr9- 100 watts per channel. It sounded nice but it did not sound nearly as good as when I bought a 2nd dr9 and bridged the amp which increased the power to 400 watts per channel. With the increase in power, the speaker just openned up. It was more dynamic, smoother sounding with bass that hit you in the chest. The 801 definitely like and needs lots of power and current.

[robert1325]

My dad had Nad 400wpc  and Sumo 200wpc amps a while ago,    It had it's benefits but was nowhere near as musicaly satisfying as the 20wpc audion PP amps that he has now.

Thanks for all your help so far !

[Russell Dawkins]

I've had the same experience as alinto. I've always felt it was that heavy woofer needing high power and damping factor to control it. My feeling is 200 WPC minimum.

I also feel the same about the 805, which I've owned - 200 WPC min.

[chckr]

I've heard big B&W speakers sound absolutely amazing two times.  First time was I believe 801's with a big Audio Research tube amp.  The second was a pair of N800s with prototype VTL S-400 (300w?).   Both times there was an uncanny realism to them.   But both these amps were (are) well beyond my budget.  For many years I ran my N805's with an old 35W modded Eico. Now I have 4-year old boy running around and tubes and curious fingers don't mix.  Not being a solid state fan, the Sig-30 was a good alternative.  With a tube pre-amp it comes alive more but still not quite as much as with the Eico.  But the Sig-30 has a smooth, sublime sound that is a bit hard to describe other than something that grows on you.   All that said, I'd really like to try the Sig-30 with some higher efficiency speakers -- that's next on my list when budget allows.   

[Plink]

The only 'power' problem I've had with the Sig-30 is when using a phono preamp (the red Bellari tube model).   My cartridge is a Shure V15 (medium output MM) and the only way to get it to play loud enough is to crank the gain up on the Bellari which adds lots of hiss to the mix which is painfully apparent with the ultra-quiet Sig-30.   What are others using for a phono preamp?   I know there's some new battery models out but most are pricey.   Any recommendations in the $500-$1000 range?

That would makes sense because the Bellari has much lower gain than most MM phono stages out there today.

Dynavector P-75 (used) would offer amazing value for less than $500-$1,000.  Pair it with a low ouput Dynavector MC and you won't be able to do much better without spending a lot more money.  I think Gram Slee has a new one and Dynavector just released the Mkii version of the P-75 to be priced at around $750 here in the US.