[lcrim]

I've been listening to this for a short while now and some impressions have formed. 
My curiosity in the Benz Micro line started when woodsyi sent me his well kept MC3, new in 1985, but still in good shape.  The cantilever had a slight cant to one side but when mounted, it tracked just fine.  I set the VTF @ 1.7 gms and since the Eastern Electric Minimax phono section uses 47 ohms input impedance for low ouput coils, thats it.  I don't remember what I was expecting but the midrange density was startling at first.  I began wondering what the present Benz Micro line would sound like, 22 years must have provided some progress.  Well, I wanted to find out.
The Technics SL-1200 MKII just had a tonearm rewire by KAB.  In addition it has all the mods available by KAB.  The rest of the system is in my signature, if you're interested.
I wasn't sure if the Glider or the Ace was a good starting point.  Buddy had recently posted about his new Ace and seemed enthusiastic.  I wanted a low output version because the low moving mass that theoretically provides the advantage that moving coils enjoy was an inherent part of the design.  I settled on the Glider L2.  Kevin Barrett (KAB)helped with the setup because I was nervous about how frail that naked cantilever looked.
I set the VTF @ 1.8 gms and cranked the pivot point down on the Technics until the tonearm looked level.  Again the midrange density but something else.  A previously unnoticed haze was lifted.  In addition, instrumental timbre seemed more realistic.  Pianos have a percussive quality which many playback systems round off but not with this cartridge.  In comparing the two cartridges (MC3 & Glider L2) a huge degree of refinement had been added.  The big, dense image remained but subtlety and detail retrieval were heightened very noticeably.  Sensitivity to surface noise has decreased, its still there but I regularly listen to vinyl now that previously was just too annoying. 
When I got my Compact Hemp speakers, Louis says to be patient and wait until the bass comes in.  The bass w/ the Glider is the best I've heard.  I'm a big Bob Marley fan and now the bass on my old reggae LP's is a force, just as it should be.  All in all, I'm very pleased w/ this cartridge.  It really fits in with the rest of the system.

[bacobits1]

Larry, I agree. I have an older Benz Glider with .9 output connected to the EE Mini Max Phono and it sounds as dynamic and has the bass slam of CD. I just recently per Bound for Sound replaced the PC with a Signal "Magic" PC. A great cable and I was always somewhat a skeptic on PC's.
Everything just sounds huge when it calls for it and has that organic sounding natural midrange.  Nice stuff!

I have a Denon 103 I did not even mount because things are sounding so good.

Den

[TheChairGuy]

Niiiice, Larry 

You mentioned piano.  Currently, that instrument vexes me.  On strongly played notes, I hear a saturation or distortion that I just can't fathom where it's coming from. Is it a function of too high mass of my higher output cartridges, pre-amp overload, speaker cone distortion - I can't quite track it down.  From George Winston to Vladimir Horowitz, it's pretty much there in lesser or more amounts.

It matters not whether it's HOMC or MM/MI, it's there.  My suspicion is that it's coil saturation.  Too much signal and not enough signal carrying capacity in my current crop of high output cartridges. Lower mass and more signal carrying capacity are the primarly reasons for moving to LOMC's.

Has this happened previously with your crop of high output cartridges - and was it banished in using your various low output cartridges (including the Glider L2) ?

To rid myself of that alone, I'd make the leap to low output coils (or Grado's).  I just haven't found sufficient reason otherwise to move to low output with all the complexity involved.

Learning from others experience....thanks, John

[lcrim]

Den:
Nice to hear from you.  I was on the verge of buying the higher output version of the Glider but the low output seems to be just fine.  The Denon cartridge that really interests me is the 301II.  It may be intended for the Japanese domestic market but it can be found on AudioCubes and there's also a guy on eBay  who's a few bucks cheaper.  The reasons that the DL-310II interests me is the great word of mouth, increased compliance and higher output (.4 mV)

John:
I'll send you the MC3 next week, so if you can get enough gain to run it you can hear if the mass is the issue.  AudioCubes has the Denon AU-300LC transformer for $109 plus shipping.  If you have any interest, I also have a Pickering HiFi cart body w/ a very special cantilever that Kevin put together for me.  Its a high compliance MM that I used w/ the Dual CS-5000 (ultra low mass arm) and Jolida JD-9 and IIRC tracked great and had no vices.

[bacobits1]

Larry, congrats on the moderator job here. I just read that.
Geeze, many people are taking the DL103 and re-tipping them to sound different/ better. There is a never ending stream of ways to spend money on this stuff but, try the Signal "Magic" Cables you won't be disappointed.

I do like the Glider very much.

I'll have to listen to piano more closely tomorrow. I have heard the ringing in the past that John mentions. With the changes I have made for the better I don't recall hearing it now. I also installed Planet 10's MAple Phase Plugs in the Fostex FE167's which made a smoother top end difference in this speaker. Also recommended. I'll report back later on the Piano comment.

Den

[TheChairGuy]

Larry
Thanks in advance of sending that MC3 (thanks woodsyi!) - the Denon transformer seems universally respected for value.  Price is as fair as one can get, I think. I'm almost (tho not fully) positive it's not a tracking issue I have - no matter great tracking cartridge or not being used, the 'ringing' or 'saturation' is still there.

Den
Yeah, check it out if you can.  It may well be occurring with other instruments, I just haven't taken notice of it.  I suppose it could just be oversaturation of the original master tape, too...but, something tells me lower coil turns (low output) = lower DC resistance = more signal carrying capacity is the culprit (or, rather, answer).  That, along with the lower internal noise of low output cartridges (lower inductance) maybe the primarily reasons for seasoned vinylphools gravitating to them.

None of this was noticed when I played very little in the way of classical.  I used to scoff at the notion when I was told that classical brings your awareness of system limitations to another level entirely - between piano, string instruments and certain woodwinds, I now know it is abundantly true  (and increasingly costly to fix  )

[Psychicanimal]

Yo!


You guys need to get a hold of some of these virgin vinyl reissues:

http://cgi.ebay.com/EDDIE-PALMIERI-Recorded-Live-At-Sing-Sing-VINYL-LP_W0QQitemZ220092605944QQcategoryZ306QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/EDDIE-PALMIERI-The-Sun-of-Latin-Music-COCO-109_W0QQitemZ220083856141QQcategoryZ306QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/RAY-BARRETTO-Hard-Hands-FANIA-LP_W0QQitemZ220086020624QQcategoryZ306QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/THE-LEBRON-BROTHERS-ORCHESTRA-Psychedelic-Goes-Latin_W0QQitemZ220054021904QQcategoryZ306QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/ORCHESTRA-HARLOW-Heavy-Smokin-FANIA-331_W0QQitemZ220017046818QQcategoryZ306QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/RICARDO-REY-Jala-Jala-Boogaloo-Vol-2-ALEGRE-8630_W0QQitemZ4753099302QQcategoryZ306QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/WILLIE-COLON-Cosa-Nuestra-FANIA-384_W0QQitemZ220088339349QQcategoryZ306QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

After I Beta tested the Pulsar digital cable, Chris VenHaus told me on the phone he was looking for a system like mine:  mini-monitors/stereo subs, 100% solid state throughout.  He also told me he chose me cause the music I listen to is the hardest to reproduce...that people thought that piano & female vocals were the tests but in fact, hardcore Latin music is.

At less than $10, these virgin vinyl Latin reissues are a steal...and will provide a different testing platform than what you're used to.  Talk about saturation...


Chair Guy:
 
If you want to go to LO MCs, you can upgrade to the brand I mentioned without having to dump the APT.  They made a legendary LO MC pre-pre that plugs into a regular phono stage.  It can be had for as low as $80 - $150 sometimes and when factory upgraded (like your APT was ) its performance will be up there with current $2-3K models.

I won't mention the name cause then all you guys will be searching for it.   

There was one in Audiogon a while ago but the owner wanted $400 plus.  A friend of mine uses it in his system.

[bacobits1]

Two days of listening of all kinds of piano on vinyl here has resulted in absolutely no ringing of any kind with my Glider. In particular the 10ga Signal "Magic" PC is very good at keeping a very natural instrument presentation. At 10ga this cable is pretty big and pulls down the small EE components if not careful. I am getting all the impact, bass, and detail I get from CD which has been my goal. As It should since I have enough invested in my vinyl front end.
Really the last time I remember any ringing was before I changed out the original cable on the Rega 300 arm for the Incognito set up. Again, a worthwhile upgrade if you have the Rega.
Bottom line is I think wires have a lot to do with what is coming off of that cartridge. I'm a firm believer now in power cords. 

Den

[TheChairGuy]

Den: Interesting, I am stuck with the captive power and (quite likely, not even OFC copper) tonearm cable and lead with my JVC. 

I'm neither cable skeptic, nor staunch ally, but Oxygen Free Cable (OFC), at the very least, is needed to reduce crystal and oxidative boundaries for such eeny-weeny cartridge signals. I know my current JVC TT falls short of ideal because of it.

I have a perfectly good VPI HW-19MKIII with full re-wired Rega 250 (VTA, and counterweight, too) that's been sitting here and gathering dust for months.  I might just dust it off, set it up and see if the ringing exists when playing it     

[woodsyi]

I used the MC3 and the Glider L2 with Incognito wired Rega 250 with Michell counterweight.  I definitely did not hear any ringing with Piano or anything and it was the best tracking combo I had.  I think you will like LOMC on your VPI table.     I can lend you a EAR 834 if you need a decent MC pre. 

[TheChairGuy]

hey woodsyi.

I think I'd like to hear the MC with as mush as my current equipment as possible for fairest comparison.  I'm going to buy a step-up to use with my existing APT-Holman (and maybe alternate with my Quicksilver Full Function preamp).

Thanks much, tho 

[Psychicanimal]

I'm going to buy a step-up to use with my existing APT-Holman (and maybe alternate with my Quicksilver Full Function preamp).

Be patient, not-so-young Padwan...you can do top notch for little money. 

[TheChairGuy]

I don't intend to spend a whole bunch for the step-up.....that's just not likely in the cards.

[bacobits1]

John, fire the MKIII up. I really liked mine when I had it. Same setup with a Incognito Rega 300 with an AT OC9 though and a Denon 103. The reason i got rid of it was I didn't like the way too expensive upgrade path VPI has. I got itchy for something different. I bought the Basis Table.

Den