SS amp recommendations

tdangelo · « **on:** 20 Mar 2007, 12:16 pm »

well, after trying out several tube amps I've come to the conclusion that to get the power I want(150-200wpc+) without excessive heat generated I need to get some good SS mono block amps. I need to get monos or I'll have to get all new cabling(IC's, speaker and power cables)...

My personal amp evolution during the last 2 years or so was:

Aragon Palladium 1K monos(nice, cool, quiet, slightly dark and recessed sounding)

Nuforce 8A's(didn't work out in my system)

Butler 2250's running in mono(very nice, cool running, nice mix of tube and SS attributes)

Jolida JD3000's(VERY nice, better than the Butler's in every way...in my system) WAY TOOOOOO HOT

Cayin 860 Monos 60wpc(not bad, slightly veiled and not enough power - cool running)

Supratek Burgundy 100WPC(even better than the Jolidas - more transparent - deeper controlled bass) WAY TOO HOT

I figured the Supratek's were going to be the amps - since they are only 100wpc I figured they would be a little cooler than the Jolidas - they are but not much....

Since I'm gonna be in my small 12x14 room for a couple more years and I live in Florida, I've come to the conclusion that powerful tube amps aren't going to work for me. I'm looking for recommendations of sweet sounding, cool running but powerful SS amp. I'm still using my RAW Acoustics Apex II speakers. I like to rock out at times and 100 wpc is marginal about 10% of the time.

Thanks for any recommendations

Tony

zybar · « **Reply #1 on:** 20 Mar 2007, 12:26 pm »

Tony,

Grab a pair of used CI Audio D-200's on Audiogon:

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/srch_fs.pl

I owned these amps in the past and think they are competitive with amps costing a lot more than the D-200's list price, let alone their used price.

George

smargo · « **Reply #2 on:** 20 Mar 2007, 12:31 pm »

Quote from: tdangelo on 20 Mar 2007, 12:16 pm

Since I'm gonna be in my small 12x14 room for a couple more years and I live in Florida, I've come to the conclusion that powerful tube amps aren't going to work for me. I'm looking for recommendations of sweet sounding, cool running but powerful SS amp. I'm still using my RAW Acoustics Apex II speakers. I like to rock out at times and 100 wpc is marginal about 10% of the time.

Thanks for any recommendations

Tony

i understand your dilemma - for me the creek destiny integrated (100 wpc) is very good in terms of transparency and cool running and straddles the line perfectly between tubes and ss - i have used this amp for about 4 months. carries a rythym forever. with a solid bass foundation.

another is the nad master series m3 (180 wpc) which is also very wondeful (albeit a little too smooth) but can drive very hard loads - very transparent and rock solid but in my opinion doesn't have the musicality that the creek has - it does everything well but lacks a little soul
i have owned this amp for over a year.

hope this helps

smargo

zybar · « **Reply #3 on:** 20 Mar 2007, 12:37 pm »

Quote from: smargo on 20 Mar 2007, 12:31 pm

i understand your dilemma - for me the creek destiny integrated (100 wpc) is very good in terms of transparency and cool running and straddles the line perfectly between tubes and ss - i have used this amp for about 4 months. carries a rythym forever. with a solid bass foundation.

another is the nad master series m3 (180 wpc) which is also very wondeful (albeit a little too smooth) but can drive very hard loads - very transparent and rock solid but in my opinion doesn't have the musicality that the creek has - it does everything well but lacks a little soul
i have owned this amp for over a year.

hope this helps

smargo

Smargo,

Tony was asking for recommendations for ss mono amps, not integrated amps.

George

samplesj · « **Reply #4 on:** 20 Mar 2007, 01:41 pm »

Quote from: zybar on 20 Mar 2007, 12:26 pm

Grab a pair of used CI Audio D-200's on Audiogon:

While I would agree that D-200s (or ANY UCD amp) is very clean with tons of power, if you are used to the tube sound you may not find them a good fit. I've not heard Dusty's amp, but, although modded, it is a UCD module based amp and the apple can't fall far from the tree. I've got a pair of UCD400 modules with the Hypex high grade power supply fed with oversized piltron shielded/screened transformers sitting unused in the back of the HT room right now (need to get it in the trading post, but haven't had time for the pictures). They do a LOT of things really well (especially their absolute blackness and razor sharp detail), but in the end I didn't think they had the body/warmth I wanted. I'm running 1 Butler 2250 now and IMO it is a MUCH better amp. You've already heard the Butler and it looks like you enjoyed it so why not try again? I know a pair of 2250s is much more than the D-200s or other UCD amps, but to me the Butler does everything the UCD amp does plus a bit more. If it wasn't for your cabling needing monos I'd wonder why a single Butler 2250 wouldn't be enough. Your speakers are 88dB at 8ohms and mine are 85dB at 4ohm and 1 is plenty loud for me.

If you got enough warmth already then UCD modules are great and do sound very nice. If you do go the Hypex route check out Kevin at DIYCable offerings too. He does offer certain mods (last time I checked DIY audio for UCD mods he offered most of the recommended safe mods). At least that way you know exactly what has been tweaked with your amp.

PhilNYC · « **Reply #5 on:** 20 Mar 2007, 01:50 pm »

Budget?

tdangelo · « **Reply #6 on:** 20 Mar 2007, 01:58 pm »

thanks for all the comments guys

Gives me lots to think about.

Phil: My budget is prob. $6k or less.

Tony

Daygloworange · « **Reply #7 on:** 20 Mar 2007, 02:48 pm »

tdangelo,

I'm currently running an ATI 1202 SS power amp. I'm really happy with this amp. It did really well at the TAAS Amp Comparo held a while back. 120 watts per channel, Class AB, doesn't run overly warm, built like a tank.

Has some neat features. Soft start, clip limiters, independant input gain controls. I'll be adding a second one to my setup and vertically bi-amping. Tight and punchy, neutral, and good resolution. The price on these is a treat as well. IMHO, I think it's one of the biggest steals in 2 channel audio. I've sung it's praises before, and I'll do it again. I'm really happy with this amp.

Salk and Linkwitz use and recommend ATI amps in their active crossover applications.

http://www.ati-amp.com/at1202.html

Cheers

Occam · « **Reply #8 on:** 20 Mar 2007, 02:49 pm »

Quote from: samplesj on 20 Mar 2007, 01:41 pm

Quote from: zybar on 20 Mar 2007, 12:26 pm
Grab a pair of used CI Audio D-200's on Audiogon:

While I would agree that D-200s (or ANY UCD amp) is very clean with tons of power, if you are used to the tube sound you may not find them a good fit. I've not heard Dusty's amp, but, although modded, it is a UCD module based amp and the apple can't fall far from the tree. I've got a pair of UCD400 modules with the Hypex high grade power supply fed with oversized piltron shielded/screened transformers sitting unused in the back of the HT room right now (need to get it in the trading post, but haven't had time for the pictures). They do a LOT of things really well (especially their absolute blackness and razor sharp detail), but in the end I didn't think they had the body/warmth I wanted. I'm running 1 Butler 2250 now and IMO it is a MUCH better amp.....

Samples,

I've no doubt that you prefer the Butler to YOUR implementation of the UCD, but I don't see how that confers the ability to make definative blanket statements about other implementations. Its in the details of implementation. I have heard the D-200s and various Diy implementations, and they were, subjectively, very different amps, not by any means interchangeable. (Iff'n you wanted more warmth, using an OPA2107 for the input opamp would have gotten you closer) This is why Dusty (and others) make the big bucks.

It take 100s of hours, and multiple implementations, to get an amp voiced subjectively. Its not something a DIYer like you (or me) can easily do without devoting tremendous resources.

FWIW,
Paul

tdangelo · « **Reply #9 on:** 20 Mar 2007, 02:52 pm »

I think the Odyssey Stratos Mono Extreme's may fit the bill

Double Ugly · « **Reply #10 on:** 20 Mar 2007, 03:16 pm »

Quote from: tdangelo on 20 Mar 2007, 02:52 pm

I think the Odyssey Stratos Mono Extreme's may fit the bill

That's what I was going to recommend. Even better would be a pair of Symphonic Line amps someone has traded-in.

I've not auditioned the Extremes, but Klaus sent a pair of Symphonic Line RG4s that were the best, most tube-like SS amps I've heard. If my speakers had been upgraded to their current level, I'd still have 'em here (I needed more power then). Definitely competition for the Butler Monad monoblocks IMHO, and for me that's saying a *LOT*!

Good luck in the search.

-Jim

Bob Reynolds · « **Reply #11 on:** 20 Mar 2007, 03:26 pm »

Another option would be a pair of ATI AT2002 balanced multichannel amps and passive biamp the speakers.

http://www.ati-amp.com/at2000.html

The AT2002 is 200wpc (50 pounds, two large toroidal transformers) at $1500 for 2 channels.

JoshK · « **Reply #12 on:** 20 Mar 2007, 03:27 pm »

Given his penchant for tube amps, why not try a hybrid? Blue Circle's $5500 hybrid that I heard in my system, was about the best amp in my system I've ever heard. Not an apples to apples comparison, but the Butlers were very good too, but didn't quite wow me the same way (no diss, as I really really enjoyed them).

Hybrids can be done in a number of very different ways. Blue Circle's and Butler's approaches are very different, as is Van Alstine's (I presume) and then there is KR Audio which use SS in the input and tubes in the output. So results are likely equally varied, but it may give you the touch of tubes that you like while cutting down on heat (assuming class A/B output, since class A SS of any sig output is equally as hot).

JoshK · « **Reply #13 on:** 20 Mar 2007, 03:37 pm »

oh, and then there is the Moscode too.

PhilNYC · « **Reply #14 on:** 20 Mar 2007, 03:40 pm »

Quote from: JoshK on 20 Mar 2007, 03:27 pm

Given his penchant for tube amps, why not try a hybrid? Blue Circle's $5500 hybrid that I heard in my system, was about the best amp in my system I've ever heard. Not an apples to apples comparison, but the Butlers were very good too, but didn't quite wow me the same way (no diss, as I really really enjoyed them).

On the topic of Blue Circle, note that BC is often willing to build monoblock versions of their amps, so if monoblocks are a requirement, they can do it.

Double Ugly · « **Reply #15 on:** 20 Mar 2007, 03:41 pm »

I like the Butler 2250s a lot, but IMO the presence of tubes is not terribly obvious in their sound.

They aren't the last word in bass either.

DARTH AUDIO · « **Reply #16 on:** 20 Mar 2007, 04:16 pm »

Hey Tony, I'm dealing with the heat of the JD3000's but can't seem to give them up. I was contemplating the Bel Canto RF1000 monoblocs(also can be modified by Underwood HiFi). They are 500 watts per channel. They are around $4K for the pair. A little more for the mod of course. If you can go stereo?? Try the Spectron Musician III Signature amp. It runs cool and is 600 watts of power. It's only $3700.00 online through Audiogon.

Good Luck,

tdangelo · « **Reply #17 on:** 20 Mar 2007, 04:22 pm »

thanks again for all the suggestions. I sold my Jolida's to a guy up north that has a very big room

I'm kinda leaning towards the CI D200's - very inexpensive and cool running but... I just saw a pair of Blue Circle BC8 Mk II on Agon that look interesting too

The BC's may run a little warm though... I really should take my time and make a proper decision

I REALLY should just keep the Supratek's and crank the AC a little more when it gets warm... They are really the best amp's I've had and exceed the one's I've lived with by quite a big margin....

Tony

PhilNYC · « **Reply #18 on:** 20 Mar 2007, 04:43 pm »

Quote from: tdangelo on 20 Mar 2007, 04:22 pm

I just saw a pair of Blue Circle BC8 Mk II on Agon that look interesting too The BC's may run a little warm though...

BC amps may run a little warm, but they never really run hot (even the solid state amps). Even on the warmest ones, you can put your hand on top of the chassis and leave it there without getting uncomfortable...

warnerwh · « **Reply #19 on:** 20 Mar 2007, 11:24 pm »

The only ss amps I've heard that have qualities approaching tubes are hybrids which have tubes only in the input stage. These are small tubes so not much heat is generated.

I used a Blue Circle BC 24 and had it had more power would have kept it, great amp. Now I'm using a Van Alstine Fetvalve 550. Putting Mullards in there made it what I wanted. With my Vmps RM 40s a bit of tube sound, not much but some, makes for a very synergistic combo. The AVA is biased to 18wpc in class A which also helps keep that smoothness. It does run very warm but in Florida I'm sure you've got air conditioning. It doesn't however create near the heat a tube amp with large output tubes creates. Those little input tubes really don't make much more heat than my SS Primare preamp.