[lonewolfny42]

If a shop can make a living out of just 2 makes of cars, maybe there is something to what some of you are saying here!

Yep.....most shops just do not want to work on them. I did own a car like that... ....a 1980 Renault Le Car.......and my mechanics said...."when you have a problem, don't bring it here".
It didn't last long.....I didn't need the headache.

[Red Dragon Audio]

Vdubs definitely have their problems - I believe much of it stems from poor management at the very top levels at VW USA.  There is simply no excuse for poor quality control from a company with their experience and age.  The Jettas, beetles and golfs being prime candidates for having issues here in the states - from what I have read this is mostly due to the fact these models are built in Mexico and Brazil - somehow these plants don't have the same stringent standards as their European factory counterparts.

However the Passat is built completely in Germany and does fair quite a bit better than its Mexican/Brazilian counterparts.  You can find 1.8t Passats for around $15k (give or take $2k depending on year, mileage etc).  My wife has a 2003 Passat Wagon 1.8t and I haven't a single complaint about it - no repair issues (knock on wood) - only oil changes, new tires, filters etc.  In fact it's quite fun to drive due to the great torque band and manual transmission. It gets close to 29MPG during freeway trips - about 22MPG around town. 

Right now I'm looking at getting a 4door Toyota Tacoma or Ford Ranger  - fits my needs better than my current sedan. My wife will be keeping the Passat wagon as she has really enjoyed it.


Here is the JD Powers report: VW ranks 3rd from the bottom - ouch.

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pdf/2006082.pdf

[warnerwh]

An ok place to do research on cars is Edmunds.com. Also Carreview.com has numerous user reviews. Recently I purchased a Lincoln Town Car. I'd also looked at BMW's and Mercedes among others. After reading how unhappy people were with their BMW's and Mercedes I scrapped the option.

Lincoln Town Cars are well liked by the users. Also I believe Consumer reports says the Mercury Grand Marquis is their Best Buy in used cars again. It's basically the same car as the Town Car only without some of the amenities and as good of quality of many of the parts but overall it's very similar. It's another car people rate highly at carreview.

Didn't search VW's but used to read alot of Car and Driver and Road and Track mags as well as spending a good deal of time at the track. From what I've learned in my opinion I wouldn't consider them. Also American quality has risen to above the level of German cars on many instances according to J.D. Powers and associates.

The bottom line is there's plenty of cars in each class to choose from so you have plenty of options. Let me assure you that anything with a turbo I'd take a good look at when it comes to problems. I'm very well versed on cars so please do the research. If you want power and good handling I'd get a Mustang GT. 

I'd also stay away from Audi. This is something a childhood friend told me today. He's made his living dealing cars his entire life as upper management and now half owner.

[shep]

I'm driving a '91 Passat wagon. It gets me from here to there but I don't trust it. I've had older Audi's and VW Polo. They were all junk. Among the three cars mentioned, I changed 16 wheel bearings! 3 fuel pumps, 6 door handle mechanisms and I'll spare you the rest. Even here in France they recognize that Japanese cars are the best. Mazda always comes top of the list in reliability. There three series is very nice. The Germans have been  selling on looks and good advertizing. Stay clear!

[ctviggen]

My friend has a Passat wagon, and has had a few problems, but also has a lot of miles on the car.  I thought it was very nice for the money.  His Passat was built in Germany, though.  I was going to buy a Golf GTi at one time, which was made in Germany, while the regular Golfs were made in Mexico. 

[Jamesta]

Don't make one of the worst mistakes of your life.

I purchased a 02 1.8T GLS Jetta fully loaded for my wife and it was trouble from day one. Where do I start... ? 

I could talk about the crappy service and total disregard for customer satisfaction that most VW dealerships exude, but I'll just stick to the facts.

Within the first week, the battery just died- thought it was the alternator so we had it towed.
Over the course of the first year, engine cylinder coilpacks would go bad. The coilpacks basically ignite each cylinder, so when one goes bad, you lose a cylinder, which kinda sucks especially when your on a busy Interstate. This was a widespread issue with all Audi/VW 1.8T engines, but none the less a pain since only one coilpack was replaced at a time and the vehicle required towing each time.
During the 3rd Year, the engine coolant(?) fans just died at roughly 40K miles.
Also during that year, the window dropped.
The cpu needed to be replaced and or reconfigured several times as well.

We really loved the look and performance of this car, but it just was a utter and total piece of sh*&. The funny thing is that after we started having problems, I mentioned it to several people at work and 80% of those I spoke to (10-12) people had very similar if not most of the same issues!!!! One guy I know had a Passat with a 1.8T that had 3 turbos within 6 years.

To top it off, the Service Manager at the Dealership came out and told me that all of the 02 Jettas were lemons!!! Of course this guy was gone by the time I came back for my next service, but that was the norm at this dealership.

 Needless to say, I will never ever buy another VW/Audi. If I get another compact, I'm going with a Mazda 3.

Look to Edmunds, and do a few google searches. You may find that there is about 50/50 pos/neg feedback, but I would hope that the horror stories tip your vote in the right direction.

Btw. this car was very well cared for and I have photos to prove that It looked as new when I finally unloaded it.

Let me know if you have questions and sorry for the rant!

-James

[budyog]

Man, am I glad I posed the question. I love AudioCircles! . I feel like I already own one and I have been discussing all my problems with you folks. I will keep searching.
Thanks to all!

Are we able to update our audio profile page yet?

[Bob in St. Louis]

How about a reality check from "Bob the car guy".
I've been in the auto repair industry, both foreign, domestic, and independent, since the late 80's.

All cars are junk. Period.

Auto manufacturers are being pulled in too many directions, each with conflicting goals.
- The EPA wants clean exhaust. This means stupidly excessive engine management software and sensors to achieve C.A.F.E. standards. (more components to break)
- The manufacturers 'bean-counters' want the vehicle cheap to produce. It would take a college level thesis to explain this in it's entirety. But the bottom line is, the customers best interest are not taken into consideration.
- The customer wants an attractive vehicle with all the creature comforts of home. Sometimes more than what's in their home. (Does your home have touch screen satellite voice activated navigation with flip down DVD player and three dozen control modules keeping things running?)
And oh yea, we want the car to be cheap to buy, maintain, repair, gets great gas mileage, and has room to carry all my crap. I want all the bells and whistles on my new 2007 "widgycar" that my neighbors 2007 Lexus has.
Oh, by the way Mr. Car Manufacturer, we want the car to be reliable too.
- The car makers want a product that does all of the above just well enough to not piss off the customer, to insure their next car will be of the same make.

Car manufacturers don't give a rat's ass about you and the kids broke down on the side of the highway in the pouring rain at night. Period. More effort goes into research and development of bells and whistles and cool buttons that make us giggle and show our friends, than goes into making a reliable product. Nobody will convince me otherwise. I've been doing this too long to believe otherwise. When a car maker continues to make an inferior part the same way for several years, model year after model year, knowing full well that it's going to fail way sooner than it should but instead has designed a new fancy cupholder that performs a fancy little flippy thing when you release it has proven to me THEY DON'T CARE. They don't care that  your sorry ass has had to replace the same component four times since the car went out of warranty. (But the cool flippy cupholder still impresses our friends.)

So, bottom line: Buy the vehicle that fills your needs, whatever they may be. Very few exceptions to the rule. Yes, cars exist that are/were engineering disasters. "Cherries" also exist, but as a whole, they are all junk. Every manufacturer has it's 'lemons' and 'cherries'. I wouldn't condemn any car maker for producing a complete line of trash. On the other hand, no car maker has a complete line of flawless vehicle. Maybe with the exception of Lamborghini but I can't speak for those.

This is not a rant, at no point was my blood pressure high, nor did I grind my teeth in anger. I don't have any axes to grind with any one manufacturer. They're all to blame. I'm at relative peace with this situation since it's what puts food on my table and buys my toys. When the car makers all get together and pick the most reliable components from each company and produce one car,...I'll then be out of a job.

Bob

[Double Ugly]

How about a reality check from "Bob the car guy".
I've been in the auto repair industry, both foreign, domestic, and independent, since the late 80's.

All cars are junk. Period.

Having owned my share of vehicles, I agree with you Bob.  I guess what some of us are saying is some are worse than others, and one of those "some" is VW in general and the Jetta in particular.

It appears budyog has decided to look elsewhere, and IMO (and experience) that's a wise decision.

-Jim "I can't fix 'em, but I know when they're broken" kind of car guy

[Thebiker]

Ok, so someone has to be the exception.  I drive a 2003 Jetta TDI (that's a turbo direct injection diesel).  I have put 125K on it since I bought it new.  In that time I have done only the scheduled maintenance and had no problems.  I will grant that a couple of those maintenance intervals were pricey.  Replacing a timing belt every 60K runs about $500.

However, it has never given me any trouble, not left me standing beside the road and averages 45mpg even with me cruising I 93 from NH to Boston at 80mph, followed by Boston bumper to bumper traffic at a crawl.  Even with that, the first set of brakes were changed at 90K.

As to most of the new cars out there, way too many of them look alike.  Just get out the cookie cutter, VW, Toyota's, whatever.

[budyog]

I have not totally ruled out this Jetta yet! I also believe that there are cars that just screw up and others that do not. Here is the info on the one I liked for sale from a private party.

Budyog,
  The car has 40,600 miles on it.  5-speed automatic transmission with the Tiptronic (manual shift) option with anti-slip reduction.  1.8 liter turbocharged engine (180 hp).  4 wheel antilock disc brakes, front driver and passenger airbags, front side airbags, daytime running lights, air conditioning, power windows and door locks, premium sound system with CD player and AM/FM radio, power moonroof, grey cloth seats, heated front seats, fog lights, power steering and brakes, tilt and telescoping steering wheel, heated power outside mirrors, split folding rear seats.
 
The following repairs have been made, all covered either by recall or under warranty:  ignition coil replaced, shift linkage adjusted, replaced leaking CV boot, replaced exhaust valve, replaced brake switch, replaced catalytic converter.
 
All of the manufacturer's recommended maintenance has been conducted (20,000 / 30,000 / 40,000 mile maintenance).  The manufacturer's warranty of the engine/transmission/drive train is transferable and is good until July of this year.  The manufacturer's warranty against rust perforation is transferable and is good until the year 2014.
 
If you'd like to see and drive the car, just let me know.  Thanks for your interest.

I also know about the timing belts. Same thing with my Camry. I relaced It at 80K to prevent a major problem

I am sure there are more owners out there that have good stories to tell about their VW. A
friend of mine who knows nothing about a car would  say only buy a Hyundai. I just can't seem to go Korean. He owns 2 of them with no problems at all in the last 5 years.

No matter what car I have bought, I always do all the routine maintenance, but it always seems like the thing that ends of breaking is something that never breaks on that make! Go figure!

[Double Ugly]

Ok, so someone has to be the exception.  I drive a 2003 Jetta TDI (that's a turbo direct injection diesel). 

I was about to sign the papers for a TDI when I turned to my wife and said, "Are you sure?"  She just stood there, staring at me with a blank expression.  "What?  If you aren't sure, we don't have to buy anything tonight.  What's wrong?"  She turned slowly towards the shiny blue Wolfsburg Edition sitting on the showroom floor and whispered, "That one sure is pretty..."  The rest of the nightmare you know.

I've often wondered if we'd been happier going with the TDI.  The torque and driveability really surprised me giving the relatively low HP rating (90?).  Even if it'd been just as much trouble, at least I would have saved a few thousand on the initial sale and the eventual trade-in (they gave me next to nothing for it, and I happily took it just to end the torture).

[sts9fan]

I love my 03 golf TDI!  I have it chipped though so I am getting more like 120hp and ~180 ft/lb.  Still get ~50 mpg with non winter fuel

[ctviggen]

Diesels can be depectively low in HP, because they're comparatively higher in torque.  For instance, the new 2.0 TDI engine makes 140 hp and 236 pound-feet of torque.  Compare that versus my car, which is gas and has 230 hp but only (relatively speaking) 258 pound feet of torque.  And, the deisel's torque comes on very early in the rpm band. 

[Nels Ferre]

 
The following repairs have been made, all covered either by recall or under warranty:  ignition coil replaced, shift linkage adjusted, replaced leaking CV boot, replaced exhaust valve, replaced brake switch, replaced catalytic converter.
 
All of the manufacturer's recommended maintenance has been conducted (20,000 / 30,000 / 40,000 mile maintenance).  The manufacturer's warranty of the engine/transmission/drive train is transferable and is good until July of this year.  The manufacturer's warranty against rust perforation is transferable and is good until the year 2014.

This one's a real winner, not! The car has 40,000 miles on it, and one of the valves has already been replaced? Also the catalytic convertor concerns me a bit: pricey as all get out when you have to pay for one yourself.  One the other hand, I've seen worse. Much, much, worse.

My other concern would be the scheduled maintenance VW recommends. 10K miles/1 year between oil changes simply isn't enough, even with synthetic. The oil lasts longer than conventional petroleum based oil, but regardless of what VW says, the filter should be changed more often.  I'm not saying I know more than the engineers, I don't. But this is a sales benefit , not a maintenance plan "...and look Mr. and Mrs. You'll Wish You Bought Something Else, the car is designed for low maintenance, just bring it by once a year or every 10,000 miles."  Oill changes are cheap insurance. I would not recommend 10K mile intervals in anything. I've also never had to replace a valve in anything, either.

I would agree with the people that have been happy with their TDI models. Probably the most trouble free of the bunch, although they are still not immune to electrical problems, mass air flow sensors, windows that fall down........

[warnerwh]

If you go here: http://www.carreview.com/cat/automobiles/midsize-compact/PLS_1531_860crx.aspx

you'll see the Jetta has a rating of 3.27 with 767 user reviews. Anything below a 4.0 on this site I consider not worth the risk. With over 700 reviews it's a good indicator imo.

[fajimr]

i had a 2000 jetta GL for a couple of years:  strong points: engine and tranny, good handling, fun to drive.  weak points: everything else- i.e. all the bits and pieces that made me want to sell the car:  sunroof that had issues, rattles, door handles that broke, squeaks, tinny sounding doors.... 

in general I think the powertrain (which they share with audi) is strong but all the assembled pieces are weak.. consider a passat if you have the $$$ or an Audi A4.

good luck
jim

[Double Ugly]

Diesels can be depectively low in HP, because they're comparatively higher in torque.  For instance, the new 2.0 TDI engine makes 140 hp and 236 pound-feet of torque.  Compare that versus my car, which is gas and has 230 hp but only (relatively speaking) 258 pound feet of torque.  And, the deisel's torque comes on very early in the rpm band. 

Yeah, I knew that (father was a truck driver and diesel engine mechanic), but the acceleration of the little TDI still caught me by surprise.  I have a deep and abiding appreciation for torque and HP, and thought it'd be adequate at best. 

It was waaaaaay beyond adequate, or seemed so at the time.  Maybe it was the result of lowered expectations.

[TomS]

Diesels can be depectively low in HP, because they're comparatively higher in torque.  For instance, the new 2.0 TDI engine makes 140 hp and 236 pound-feet of torque.  Compare that versus my car, which is gas and has 230 hp but only (relatively speaking) 258 pound feet of torque.  And, the deisel's torque comes on very early in the rpm band. 

Yeah, I knew that (father was a truck driver and diesel engine mechanic), but the acceleration of the little TDI still caught me by surprise.  I have a deep and abiding appreciation for torque and HP, and thought it'd be adequate at best. 

It was waaaaaay beyond adequate, or seemed so at the time.  Maybe it was the result of lowered expectations.

Sorry, slightly OT - I drove a brand new MB E280 sport wagon with their new diesel (National rental car) in the UK last week.  It was rocket quick with lots of real world low end torque and very quiet (unlike the TDI).  I didn't even realize it was a diesel at first other than remembering why the rental agent made me sign to that effect.

[Jamesta]

With all due respect to the mechanics on this thread, VWs are in general crap and much more so than the typical car on the road today. Cars consistently do not have this many problems if they are maintained IMO. I've owned a Jeep Cherokee that I put over 90K on before problems started up, ditto with a Nissan Maxima and a Mazda MX6.. Jeep Wrangler and so on.

The simple truth is that quality control is horrible at the VW plant (s) and VW sales are suffering today because of this and Consumer reports consisently puts this brand at the bottom of the list.

Regarding the TDI, the few people that I know that have owned VWs were very pleased with the TDI engine/tranny same with the standard 4 cylinder. That said, the other standard "extras" such as faulty electrical wiring, windows etc. are the same across pretty much all of the models (Passat- down).

If I do seem passionate about getting my point across its because I do not want to see someone else go through the same nightmare that I experienced.

If you do however still feel drawn towards VW, try to stay clear of the 1.8T.

-James