[Bigfish]

I am looking forward to receiving my Mono Exteme SEs in Mid April.  My wife and I were listening to music this afternoon and she commented that my Monitor Audio 9i's sounded "tinny and not as good as the old ADS 810's."  I agree with her that the Monitors do not sound as good as the old 810's but the 810's were powered by an old Yahama 2040 receiver (120 wpc and weighed maybe 60 lbs.) versus the Monitors being driven by a Denon 3806 AVR. 

I was thinking my next purchase should by the Candela but I wondering if the next purchase should be new speakers.  I would appreciate your advice.  Based on reviewing 4 years of threads on this circle I am confident the Lorelei's would be a good choice and also thinking about the Magnepan 3.6.  With the Mono Extremes I should have enough power for the Maggies but you guys are so in love with the Lorelei's! 

I look forward to your comments and advice.

Ken

[TomS]

Congrats on the SE's.  You'll like them a lot.  My pair is at Klaus's right now for an upgrade and I also have a Candela on order too.  This is a terrific combo that you can't go wrong with.

In terms of speaker choices, can you give a few more particulars on your room characteristics, placement options, listening tastes, budget?  Is it 2-channel only or combo HT?

Tom

[Bigfish]

My room is 24X14X8 and the main speakers must be positioned against the long wall.  Double windows on one end of the room and French Doors on the other end.  The main speakers (fronts) will have to do double duty for 2 channel and for Movies.

Thanks,

Ken

[Bigfish]

My room is 24X14X8 and the main speakers must be positioned against the long wall.  Double windows on one end of the room and French Doors on the other end.  The main speakers (fronts) will have to do double duty for 2 channel and for Movies.

I forgot to add that my music tastes run from Southern Rock to Country to Jazz.  I am looking for good audio sound on a beer budget, not really.  What I want to obtain from my system is to be able to listen and hear something approaching realism.  I don't want to hear two boxes or sound that has metal sounding qualities like I have now. 

I purchased the Odyssey AMPs after reading all the favorable reviews of the Odyssey Equipment and then talking to the man, Klaus, himself.  I have no doubt I have purchased quality equipment at a good value and backed by a man who will do his best to ensure I am a satisfied customer. 

Thanks Again,

Ken

[TomS]

The Lorelei's are great speakers, especially for the money.  Klaus also has a smaller version of that speaker that just came out as well.  Unfortunately there isn't really a matching center or surrounds, if you must have them, for HT.  As long as you keep them off the rear wall (due to rear ports), they should work really well.  If your bias is more toward 2ch than HT you can't go wrong.  Oh, and "tinny" there are definitely not

The Mag 3.6's are also nice speakers, but I'm not sure how they'd work with only 14' front to rear to work with.  I've had a pair myself and found they need a little more room to "breathe".  They worked ok in my 13x24x8 room, but I use the short wall.  I doubt the SE's would have any problem driving them.

There are many great choices in the $2-4k range.  If you want a full HT setup the Onix Rockets also give you a lot of options.  I have the 760/200/300's + 2 subs and am very happy with them.  For 2-channel without subs, though, I still prefer the Lorelei's.

As always, speakers are a very personal choice.  Have fun and let your own ears be the judge!

[byteme]

I've got Lors that I use for both 2 channel and as mains in my HT.  As good as the Lors are for 2 channel they really add punch in the low end and perform great as HT speakers too.  When paired with the right center the front soundstage becomes huge and can handle anything  (I'm using the Usher X-616 for a center - similar mid/woofers and Ushers replication of the tweeter used in the Lors - as close to a perfect match as possible without going with 3 Lorelei's across the front!!).  My room is quite a bit smaller than yours (12 x 20) so they don't get to breath as much as I'm sure they need but unless you have a dedicate room everything is a compromise.

I haven't heard Maggies in a long time.  The Lors are, to me, very good at what you're after - they make you forget you're listening to speakers and pull you into the music.  Hearing boxes that sound metallic would be the opposite of what I experience with Mono's and the Lorelei's!

[satfrat]

I've got Lors that I use for both 2 channel and as mains in my HT.  As good as the Lors are for 2 channel they really add punch in the low end and perform great as HT speakers too.  When paired with the right center the front soundstage becomes huge and can handle anything  (I'm using the Usher X-616 for a center - similar mid/woofers and Ushers replication of the tweeter used in the Lors - as close to a perfect match as possible without going with 3 Lorelei's across the front!!).  My room is quite a bit smaller than yours (12 x 20) so they don't get to breath as much as I'm sure they need but unless you have a dedicate room everything is a compromise.

I haven't heard Maggies in a long time.  The Lors are, to me, very good at what you're after - they make you forget you're listening to speakers and pull you into the music.  Hearing boxes that sound metallic would be the opposite of what I experience with Mono's and the Lorelei's!

I'm with Brian, he was nice enough to turn me onto the Usher X-616 for use as centers. They work real well for both multichannel music and home theater. My room is the smallest yet at 11' x 17' x 7' with my mains on the 11' wall. I need the distance for the TV. I can tell you that the Lorelei's work just fine in a small room, they are only a 2-way loudspeaker afterall, I don't think they need all that much room to breath if you're able to give them a good 3+' from the front wall (mine are 38")& 2' fron the side walls(mine are 22"). Maybe it's the power conditioning and the room treatment but my Lor's make my weener room sound like a bottomless pit. Much depth. My ibrary consists mostly of all kinds of jazz but I do new age, alternative, metal & rock, bluegrass, and classical. I also have a tennie bit of country but I don't like to think about it. If I had to pick what the Lorelei's really shine at for me, it would be instrumentals & vocals. The voices and individual instruments just hang in the air somewhere behind my mains. 3 years now and I still get goosebumps. 
This album I'm listening to know is an excellent example of vocal & guitar folk music that exhibits how really good the Lorelei's are in my system. 

Robin

[Bigfish]

Guys:

Once I receive the new amps do you think my next purchase should be the preamp or the speakers?  I really don't dislike the speakers I have for HT but they are not enjoyable in 2 channel.  I know the 3806 is weak for 2 channel and even with the new amps I will still need a preamp, a dac and new speakers.  I cannot slap down the money and buy everything at once (oh, do I wish I could like everyone does) but this stuff fits into the wants, not needs section of the budget!  So given this reality would you recommend I push for new speakers or the preamp next?

Thanks,

Ken

[byteme]

Guys:

Once I receive the new amps do you think my next purchase should be the preamp or the speakers?  I really don't dislike the speakers I have for HT but they are not enjoyable in 2 channel.  I know the 3806 is weak for 2 channel and even with the new amps I will still need a preamp, a dac and new speakers.  I cannot slap down the money and buy everything at once (oh, do I wish I could like everyone does) but this stuff fits into the wants, not needs section of the budget!  So given this reality would you recommend I push for new speakers or the preamp next?

Thanks,

Ken

That's a tough question!  I also wasn't able to get everything I wanted all at once, it was piecemeal and I actually didn't start too far off from what you've got!

It all started with an HT in a box set up that got me started in HT.  It was decent for HT but crap for 2 channel.  I used to have a very good budget 2 channel rig with Polk RTA11t speakers, B&K ST-202 amp and Superphon Revelation preamp.  The only remaining piece are the Polk speakers which I used as mains in the HT rig.  I upgraded the receiver to a Denon 3802, but quickly realized that I needed more oomph.  So I got a Sherwood Newcastle 5 channel amp which really helped both 2 channel and HT.  I knew the preamp section was still weak so I ran through about 6 preamps, gradually increasing in price (foreplay, B&K, Sonic Frontiers (twice), Philly Audio and finally the deHavilland).  Along the way I realized that the next weak point in the chain was the speakers.  Since I didn't have the $$ for new I upgraded the crossovers in the Polks.  really made a difference and kept them around for another year or two.  Ultimately though, after I got the Philly it became clear that while the Polks were good they weren't going to cut it long term.  So, I picked up the Lorelei's which revealed the Philly (which was GREAT for the price) as the next item to go when I got a price I couldn't pass up on the preamp I had been lusting for - the Ultraverve.  So, it was a long journey, but each piece was a building block and now my system has been stable since I upgraded the stereo stratos into mono extremes. 

Long winded way of saying - either the pre or the speakers will make a big difference, You can get a pre that won't break the bank and will sound very good while you wait for the funds for the speakers which will then reveal the pre as the weak point - but it will sound good enough to be usable until you then save up for the last preamp you'll get!

My 2 channel audio chronology goes as follows (speakers, amp, preamp only!):

1989 - Polk RTA 11t, B&K ST202, Superphon Revelation
1999 - RTA11t, HTB 502
2002, Feb - RTA11t, Denon 3802
2002, April - RTA11t, 3802, Sherwood newcastle AM9080
2002, Nov - RTA11t, bottlehead foreplay, AM9080
2002, Dec - RTA11t, B&K Pro10mc, AM9080
2003, Jan - RTA11t, Sonic Frontiers SFL1, AM9080
2003, Jan - Upgraded X-over RTA11tl, SFL1, AM9080
2003, April - UX RTA11tl, SFL1, Odyssey Stratos Stereo Extreme
2003, June - UX RTA11tl, Philly Blues 7b, Stratos
2004, Feb - Odyssey Lorelei, Blues 7b, Stratos
2004, Aug - Lorelei, deHavilland Ultraverve, Stratos
2005, Feb - Lorelei, Ultraverve, Odyssey Stratos Mono Extremes

So, there you go - I guess the message is that it's a journey!!  You're the one who will be able to decide which to go for first - the preamp or the speakers.  You may be able to get both at once if you do the speakers and find a decent used pre as a stopgap.  I've never had a preamp that had HT bypass or remote so neither of those are important to me which really expanded my options, I was only limited in that I knew I wanted tubes in the chain.

Wow, I've never really done that before - that was kind of fun!  It would be 10 times longer if I included all the cd players / transports / dacs, power conditioning, video components and cables! 

Apologies for the long ass post!

[rosconey]

wait till you get the amps and give them  time to breakin-maybe your speakers wont be so bad after all-
me i would get a candella first because one day klaus may be off his meds and bring the price into reality-

[satfrat]

Guess I'll be the odd man out here, I say speakers,, always the speakers. But that's just me. You can improve everything you want downstream but it's the speakers that you're actually listening to. If you don't like what you have now, you'll hear improvements as you upgrade your components for sure but will your speakers really take you where you want do go? That's a question you need to ask yourself. A good set of loudspeakers will sound good to you with good components and will sound awesome with high end stuff. That's just my opinion.

Welcome back Rosconey!!!

Robin

[lazydays]

My room is 24X14X8 and the main speakers must be positioned against the long wall.  Double windows on one end of the room and French Doors on the other end.  The main speakers (fronts) will have to do double duty for 2 channel and for Movies.

Thanks,

Ken

well you can forget about the Maggies. The need to be about four feet off the rear wall, and no closer than three feet to an intersecting wall (corner). If you can live with the speakers being about seven feet in front of your listening position, then you'll be OK. Sound from Maggies is unlike anyother speaker I've ever listened to. It's huge and very life like at any volume level. The 3.6's have plenty of bass when using the right stand.
I'd have them in my downstairs system if I could only fit them in the room.
     One thing about speakers I've learned thru the years is that everybody seems to listen to speakers differently. I personally like my speakers about eight feet apart and about ten feet from my listening position. I also like to slightly toe them in towards the listening position to improve the imaging. If your just doing CD's, then a speaker that is relatively flat to 30 Hz is about all you'll ever need (you could easilly get by with 35 Hz).
The Odyssey Lorelei fits this bill nicely. One thing I've learned about the Mono Extremes is that they seem to respond very well to speakers that are really setup for tube amps.
Now how they'd sound with horns is another story in itself. Might be a little to harsh with all that power driving horns. But the one thing those big amps have going for them is that they can drive just about anything very well.
gary

[Rob S.]

Odyssey's and maggies are a superb match.  Plenty of power and makes all sizes of maggies come to life.  I love my Monos', candela pre, small maggies....   I would also love to try a pair of Loreleis in my system too as I believe the synergy would be very very nice.

Lazydays is right on, maggies might not work all that well on the long wall.  I can imagine them doing very well on the 14' wall.   My room is 14 x 20 and the short wall is perfect for the small maggies & sub.  Yours will need about 4 feet from the long wall and at least 3 ft or more from the short side walls.  They aren't all that great sounding when you can't set them up properly.  I would guess the Loreleis are easier for placement.

Since you're going the HT/ 2channel combo,  I would consider the size of your TV monitor and keep in mind that the 3.6's and the off angle viewing might be somewhat limiting.

Maybe go the preamp route now since it's roughly $1300  (candela) instead of $3k or so for speakers. It will make the system sound better.  speakers will at a bigger bite, and are a much more personal preference requiring more time. 

Have fun on your search.

Rob S.

[mikram]

I agree w/ Rosconey.  Run the Monitors on your SE's a few months before looking in to new speakers.  My guess is you will be much more satisfied with what you hear.

[Eugene2]

A lot of it depends on where your head is...  If you're doing the audiophile thing and changing equipment, because, well it's what we do.  Then experiment with your current speakers and new amp first.  If I was starting a system from scratch I would start first with speakers, then amp and work my way upstream from there trying to obtain synergy.  IMHO I think the tonal character of a system is most impacted by the speakers, then the amp speaker interface.  Klaus has a good ear for music based on what I have heard, so I do not think you can go wrong with his speakers or recommendations.  The Candela is a sweet little preamp.  I am using VMPS speakers which seem to work brilliantly with the Extreme's, anyway my two cents...



VMPS RM 30M with TRT caps and OXO
VMPS Larger Sub
Odyssey Extreme SE Monoblocs
Odyssey Candela
Edge G Cd Player
Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
Shunyata Hydra 2
Virtual Dynamics Master RCA and Biwire speaker cable
Virtual Dynamics and Epiphany Power Cable

[martinr]

Mike -
Do you run the Mono's SE's through the shunyata 2 or 8?  If so what do you think of the sound quality?  (I'm considering eventually purchasing a shunyata conditioner).

Thanks

Martin

[Bigfish]

Thanks for the recommendations!  I think I will stick with the plan Klaus and I discussed three weeks ago.  Add the amps and then the preamp.  If at that point I am not happy I will have to look at speakers.

What is amazing to me is that last night we looked at the new James Bond DVD.  We were extremely happy with the sound of the system (by the way it is a great movie) but sound in movies is the icing on the cake instead of being the cake as it is in 2 channel. 

Oh, my tv is wall mounted 50" plasma so my mains have to be reasonably close to the wall.  The rear of my Monitors are only 15" from the wall and they are about as far out as I can go when looking at movies. 

Thanks again for the feedback!

Ken

[bpape]

Martin.

Klaus STRONGLY recommends plugging the monos directly into the wall.

Bryan

[Eugene2]

Most manufacturers recommend plugging directly into the wall.  I have listened closely both ways, I happen to prefer plugging them into the Hydra.  My ears like the sound quality via the hydra, seems more musical, with phenomenal results from the VMPS speakers (which received one of the most positive reviews I have ever read from Positive Feedback).

[martinr]

Most manufacturers recommend plugging directly into the wall.  I have listened closely both ways, I happen to prefer plugging them into the Hydra.  My ears like the sound quality via the hydra, seems more musical, with phenomenal results from the VMPS speakers (which received one of the most positive reviews I have ever read from Positive Feedback).

Do you plug them into the Hydra two or Hydra eight?  Is there any sonic difference between these?