[AKSA]

Andy,

Of course - you are right!

Hugh

[andyr]

However as soon as I arrived home and connected the Swift yesterday I put on the Copeland cd we were listening to at your place. The improvement in the bass was quite striking; it had become much more prominent and was now in balance with the midrange and high frequencies, an unexpected bonus.

Cheers,

Neil

Hi Neil,

When you say "The improvement in the bass was quite striking; it had become much more prominent ...", are you talking about:
* an increase in the level of bass compared to the rest of the frequencies (IMO that's what you appear to be saying?)
* bass was extended lower, or
* it was crisper bass?

Regards,

Andy

[stvnharr]

Individually, each improvement is subtle, but the overall improvement is well worth the money and effort IMHO. For a few hundred dollars it takes the GK-1 up another notch. I haven't heard any A$10k+ pre-amps but my GK-1 easily matches all pre-amps I've heard up to A$7500. Though I wouldn't go so far as to describe the scale of improvement as being equal to a major component upgrade, I think it would be fair to say that it was equal to a minor component upgrade.... and for anyone eager to glean every last iota of performance from their system, that's not bad for a few hundred bucks!

It had already been modded with TKD 2P65S stepped attenuator (http://www.thlaudio.com/indexE.htm) & Vishay S102 bypass resistors, Vampire OFC RCA's, twin grounded shielding plates, Dynamat Extreme damping material on chassis, damped PCB mounts, NOS Siemens gold pin 7308 tubes, no source switch in signal path, etc.

Since Darren brought up the subject of price comparing, I thought I might inject some points here.
The price of the GK-1/Swift is that of a direct marketed unit.  To compare to a dealer distributed unit, one needs to multiply by a factor of 2X or 2.5X, as dealers/distributors need their cut.  Premium cap upgrades usually increase price by as much as 5X of the cost of the caps, just look at what manufacturers charge for these upgrades compared to the cost of the caps.  And there are other custom modifications from stock that can be configured at at least 2X parts cost.
Thus, the cost of the GK-1/Swift easily is in the price territory of what Darren mentions, if not more, if one considers that a $10K AUD product is imported and customs/duties/shipping is figured into that cost, thereby making the GK-1/Swift comparitively more expensive.
A lot of factors go in to the cost of a product.  I know we all do price comparing as we all fall in to the trap of thinking that a more expensive product must be better.  But one has to be careful with this, especially when one is in the world of diy/modification/direct marketed products.

I've heard a lot of preamps, either as personal purchase, dealer auditions, or shows.  And I find the Platinum modified GK-1/Swift to be performance wise with the best of the whole lot.  It's just that you don't get to brag about how much money you spent!

[raptor]

Hi Neil,

When you say "The improvement in the bass was quite striking; it had become much more prominent ...", are you talking about:
* an increase in the level of bass compared to the rest of the frequencies (IMO that's what you appear to be saying?)
* bass was extended lower, or
* it was crisper bass?

Regards,

Andy

Hi Andy,

The most noticeable thing was an increase in the level of bass, with further listening it is crisper than before ( as is the whole frequency spectrum), but this is more subtle. Somehow adding the caps has brought my bass into balance with the rest of the frequencies, and I have no idea why this should be so.

I live with my 91 y.o. father whose hearing is not good. With the caps added his reaction was that he could make out more of the vocals than he was able to previously, so there's another vote for more clarity and detail

[AKSA]

Hi Neil,

You commented on your Dad's response;  until six years ago I had a wonderful neighbour in his mid-eighties with very good hearing, probably as good as mine.  He was a lovely old man, had a hard life, but with a natural curiousity and a very philosophical approach.  He'd been a metal worker,  then ran a succession of small delicatessens with his wife, then became a taxi driver.  Loved cars!  He'd even been a bookmaker at one time!!  Ted had a great interest in my amp work, and would always ask to audition each new design.

He could pick 'em too.  We never disagreed.  Once he said, 'That one is loud, clear but mechanical sounding.  The other one is more natural, more like musicians playing'.

He was born in 1915, lived through the Great Depression.......  Sri and I visited his widow yesterday, who at 92 has just come through major illness and now lives in a Nursing Home.

The response of the bass and balance you remark upon is very likely due to the much lesser dielectric absorption of teflons over the Evox-Rifa caps originally used.  Evidently when an AC signal moves through a cap there is a charge migration across the plates, to and fro, in step with the signal.  If some of that charge is slow to move through because it's actually absorbed by the insulating medium between the plates, and released a tiny interval later, then the result is usually smearing, and loss of definition.  This is often frequency dependent - some caps are 'faster' than others - and this likely explains at least what is happening at the sonic level.  The geometry of the cap is significant too in this phenomenon, as it subtly affects the parasitics - resistance, and inductance - which have impact on the sound quality as well.

Cheers,

Hugh

[kyrill]

What has NO impact on the sound?
Magnet wire theory described by the anti cable designer shows what a big disastrous influence the insulation has even on the "least" sensitive connection in the chain: the speaker wire ( except form power cord) so what about the more sensitive connections?

The cabinet influences the sound in a BIG way
the nature of the metal in the pcb connections..
Now it appears pure gold interconnects do sound better than silver (http://www.stereomojo.com/KCI%20Silkworm%20review/KCISilkwormCablesReview.htm ) and poor aluminium probably the worst, probably lead as a pure conductor will sound awful but still better than rust

I would love to hear the GK-1 and LF2, components soldered on a wooden pcb with  pure gold paths 

wait
i can "copy" the component layout of the GK-1 pcb on a flat spruce board of 3mm thickness, bore holes according to the topology  draw the paths on the wood at the underside and do point to point wiring  with thin single gold (24 krt) wire insulated in oily "virgin" paper and then varnish the underside with C39 hmm.
i will need ( a guess) 60cm or less gold wire 
           that will cost 140 us $:
 
           Product Number '1567'
           - Product Code:    Au-wire010-01
           - Unit Price:    $ 70.00   
           - Material:    Gold
           - Subcategory:    99.99% Pure Gold Wire/Rod
           - Diameter:    0.010 in. (30 gauge)  (0.254 mm)
           - Length:    1 ft. (0.305 m)
           - Unit Shipping Weight:    1.00lb.
           - Purity:    99.99 %



I dare to predict
This WILL SOUND BETTER   

But The LF2 needs a tad bigger gold wire a tad more expensive but much cheaper than a KRELL

[andyr]

I can "copy" the component layout of the GK-1 pcb on a flat spruce board of 3mm thickness, bore holes according to the topology  draw the paths on the wood at the underside and do point to point wiring  with thin single gold (24 krt) wire insulated in oily "virgin" paper and then varnish the underside with C39 hmm.

Great concept, Kyrill mon ami, but can I suggest a better/easier alternative? 

Instead of using 3mm spruce board ... use 3mm teflon sheet.  You can buy it in quite a few sizes (I bought cheaper offcuts here in Oz from a hi-tek plastics distributor).

That is what I have used for making up Hugh's PSes for my active XOs and my phono stage.  The teflon sheet is easy to saw, to drill and it doesn't dry out or warp ... also it doesn't melt at soldering iron temperatures.  I use point-to-point wiring on the underside ... not gold wire, merely copper - but if you want to go to that extent, then be my guest! 

Regards,

Andy

[kyrill]

ah haaaa !! what a splendid idea

Teflon IS better than the usual pcb plactics or fiber glass,
but, butt, butte Andy,
is teflon's resonance property hearing wise SWEEEET? Does it add this tube like life like warmish support to the sound like wood is always doing?

I mean how would a teflon Cello sound? A piano cabinet of Teflon?
Because i can never damp to zero the vibrations of the amp ( enclosure and pcb/s) I will have to accept those vibrations. But the carrier or medium of those vibrations is in this case the PCB. So this carier will add its "tone" to those vibrations. And from wood ( spruce, maple) it is proven this "tone" supports the music  maybe the best way unwanted vibs can do. Some expensive carbon composites may work also)

[andyr]

ah haaaa !!

Teflon IS better than the usual pcb plactics or fiber glass, but, butt, butte Andy,
is teflon's resonance property hearing wise SWEEEET? Does it add this tube like life like warmish support to the sound like wood is always doing?

I mean how would a teflon Cello sound? A piano cabinet of Teflon?
Because i can never damp to zero the vibrations of the amp ( enclosure and pcb/s) I will have to accept those vibrations. But the carrier or medium of those vibrations is in this case the PCB. So this carrier will add its "tone" to those vibrations. And from wood (spruce, maple) it is proven this "tone" supports the music maybe the best way unwanted vibs can do. Some expensive carbon composites may work also)

But butt butte buttte to you too, by Dutch friend, Kyrill!! 

I'm afraid I agree with some of what you say ... and disagree with other parts! 

In terms of wood "proven" to support the music by its tone ... yes, sure - with a piano sounding board or a violin backboard or frontboard, etc..  These are musical instruments; the wood "tone" is required, in order to generate their sweet sound.

However, as a support for components ... I'm sorry, I just can't agree that it must sound better.     However, I am prepared to agree that a circuit made from 1/8" spruce or teflon board, point-to-point wired on the back will sound better than a conventional PCB.  However, whether the spruce board will sound better than the teflon board - that you have to prove to me by making up two identical circuits - one from teflon and one from spruce/maple.  And when you have, I'll pay for a flight over to come and listen! 

And re. carbon-composites:
* on a hifi forum recently, I saw a picture of a CF-composite cello which Yo Yo Ma plays.  I presume it must sound very nice - otherwise he wouldn't bother!  Therefore, I'm prepared to believe that a PCB made from CF-composite may well sound good ... but, as you say, it's probably an expensive exercise! 
* I sell a CF-composite subchassis and armboard for the good old Linn LP12 turntable (which is a replacement for the stock, pressed-steel subchassis and MDF-based armboard) which dramatically improves the sound of the LP12 ... so CF-composites can indeed do good!  However, the improvement from the CF-composite subchassis IMO is not due to any "beautiful tone" it has ... but rather, simply that because it is stiff and light, it doesn't have any of the vibration problems which are inherent in the pressed-steel subchassis.  So it's simply hard physics, not wishy-washy greeny thinking! 

Regards,

Andy

[kyrill]

my wife has a gold chain she never uses, maybe. . .   :i 


what i mean why wood resonances influences component, at least as i understand it.
Thru the components is a complex signal build up "contaminated" by eddy currents. These eddy currents are 100% consistent with the  "movements" of everything conducting electrons in a magnetic field be it static or dynamic and or moving metal in an electric field creating on its turn a dynamic magnetic field and or moving electrical fields creating in static metals a dynamic magnetic field.and so on. Eddie currents also induce magnetic fields.
Many doorbells are based on the principle of making a magnet by an electrical current around a piece of metal.
It all INTERACTS in a complex soup. I say eddie currents but in the broadest sense. Strictly speaking eddie currents labels only local circular currents

So  for instance a vibrating resistor will create an extra minimal current if under a (dynamic) magnetic field. this extra current will be 100% "toned" by the tone of the mechanical force controlling the resistor (= vibrations by air and pcb)
Consider the whole pcb to be a moving grid with multiple nodes. Nothing is static, all the nodes, connections vibrate,  the whole pcb  vibrates. But the heaviest mass dictates the nature of these vibrations (tone). That is why the heaviest mass must be the wood, mechanically coupled to the pcb. 

Where do the vibrations in amps mostly come from?
From the air in the room unless you are so naive as to put the amps on top of the speakers or the speakers on the same shelf as the amps and source.
The magnetic fields and electrical fields are not uniform but do interact with each other.

These minimal currents are amplified in the amplifier as well and they are not separated noise as if in a different plane but are fully integrated in the musical signal itself They tone the music, you don't hear it as noise. This tone is extremely important and proofs empirically by hearing that eddy currents maybe very very small in measurements but can be heard as tone  very easily.
That is why Altmann insists that the wooden board directly under his amp and dac are necessary and are an integral part of the design and cannot be removed or else you loose their magic for a great part. That is also why he detests cavities inside amp and dac enclosures. these cavity resonances add ugly "tone"on top of the above story. They negatively impact the "openness" of the sound.

Another hint is the effect of dampers under sources or amps. They only damp vibrations and resonances and nothing else . Why can you hear their effect so easily? This has nothing to do with microphonic FB. Microphonics is of a much much bigger voltage and current levels

I give Altmann right. The effect I hear is very much more pronounced than differences in IC's or even power cleaning.
It is in the same league as the difference between tubes and SS. Once hearing the difference i cannot go back.  . I am convinced if end transistors like in the AKSA or lF would be cooled by copper or even better special designed  pressed carbon heat sinks, the sound would make a big  leap for the better

Too much however, too much vibrations even with wooden tone, add cloudiness and robs the transparency and focus away. Just like salt in a superb soup. The salt adds to the soup but too much will rob the soup.

The wood resonances somehow "correct" the ugly metallic "default" tone of eddy currents. as eddy currents are created by metals

btw the choice for wood is of course NOT meant to dampen the vibrations. but to use its resonance properties.  damping is apart from it.  For instance add mass and special gadgets for damping like special feet. But be be carful with heavy damping sheets l.They may not be too heavy relative to the wooden mass or they add their own UGLY tone.. ( closing the sound in and introduce something that robs the live likeness  high end turning to hifi) )

[kyrill]

  
*.....which dramatically improves the sound of the LP12 ... so CF-composites can indeed do good!  However, the improvement from the CF-composite subchassis IMO is not due to any "beautiful tone" it has ... but rather, simply that because it is stiff and light, it doesn't have any of the vibration problems which are inherent in the pressed-steel subchassis.  So it's simply hard physics, not wishy-washy greeny thinking! 

Regards,

Andy

Maybe ,Andy man 
 You could make a rigid light aluminum frame for the LP12 or from a special rigid and light plastic ( from a mall) and i can guarantee you the carbon based will sound better. That is why aluminum or titanium Cello's will NOT sound musical pleasing, 

[andyr]

Maybe ,Andy man 
 You could make a rigid light aluminum frame for the LP12 or from a special rigid and light plastic ( from a mall) and i can guarantee you the carbon based will sound better. That is why aluminum or titanium Cello's will NOT sound musical pleasing, 

And yet, Mark Knopler's shiny metal (aluminium?) guitar which features on the cover of one of Dire Straits' albums ("Brothers in Arms"?) sounds fantastic!! 

Regards,

Andy

[AKSA]

Andy,

Please be nice!

Hugh

[Hegemony]

Interesting to note that I think Mark Knofler only used that "National Style 0" guitar for one song.  "Romeo and Juliet".  And the guitar was designed in the 30's I think. 

Russ

[Martyn]

Andy is almost right when he says: "....the improvement from the CF-composite subchassis IMO is not due to any "beautiful tone" it has ... but rather, simply that because it is stiff and light, it doesn't have any of the vibration problems which are inherent in the pressed-steel subchassis."

I say "almost right" because one of the goals of the designer of an acoustic stringed instrument is too create a sound board that is infinitely stiff and infinitely light so that it will vibrate easily without dissipating any energy as heat. Carbon fibre composites perform better in this respect than wood, hence the emergence of composite violins, cellos, and basses in recent years.

However, this is the opposite of what we want in the chassis of a turntable or an electronic circuit. Here we want a material that is infinitely damped so that it wont vibrate at all, but will absorb any energy that comes its way. If you really believe that mounting a circuit on a piece of wood makes an audible difference, try potting it in silicone instead...

[kyrill]

ah  it is all in the ears...

I have a potted preamp ( Klyne 7) all the active elements are potted also to keep the design secret.
a second alternative  and more easy is put the speakers in another room and the doors closed..

it is still less musical then with a "touch" of wood 

The proof is in eating the pudding

I invite you to experiment

PS i dont belief that heat emiision has anything to do why a signal sound pleasing to the ear.brain, so it cannot be the reason why stiff carbon violins will sound better IF they do than wooden violins. wood and carbon share tone because of their similar high carbon structure, nothing to do with heat

Our ear/brain is not a science instrument it has its human subjective references

[AKSA]

Kyrill wrote:

ah  it is all in the ears...

 - and, I would add, the human brain.

The way we process and perceive the sound is probably as important as the sensor!   

It's fair to say, I think, that as far as their music goes, many prefer a painting to a photocopy - and this explains the love of the single ended triode amp which is technically a doddle but psychoacoustically a masterpiece.  Since we can't make a push pull SS amplifier which matches the distortion spectrum, we are literally forced to design one with vanishingly low distortion because the SS AB push pull distortion spectrum is perceived to be most objectionable by the ear-brain interface.   

If we listened to test tones, it would be no problem.  But we listen to music, it is an artform, and we like it to stop us talking to each other, and make us weep.  This is a tall order for a man-machine interface.   

Cheers,

Hugh

[LM]

Just tracking the thread back to the Sonicap Platinums for a moment; picked my GK1 up last night from Hugh, whom I had commissioned to do the upgrade.  I understand he did C1 alone and used 0.33uf caps to keep the cost half reasonable.  I’m glad he did but I still won’t be buying too many CD’s this week.

Whilst the technicalities go way over my head, the sound improvement hasn’t and without as much as 5 seconds of break in time, the improvement was amazing.  Little point at restating too much of what has previously said by others such as Raptor but the increased clarity, reality and dare I say richness across the spectrum, was immediately noticeable.  Like Neil, my attention was first drawn to an improved heft in the base but I am convinced on further listening the biggest improvement overall whilst well across all frequencies, was in the treble.  Again seemingly repeating Neil’s impressions, the level of base is now just right and in addition in my case, the treble – all seemingly in perfect balance.

Further though, the musicality improvements that stem from the greater transparency and detail encompass a more natural, realistic, harmonic structure that must be awfully close to the recorded event.  The 3 dimensional reality of the sound stage is quite stunning but I don’t truly know what part of the balancing act is supplied by the GK1 and what part from the LifeForce.  I know I have a good CD spinner, speakers and room but the heart of the system is the amp and the soul is the pre and for both of those I am indebted to Hugh.  The amp I need to say more about in another post but the point of this one is that the soul of my system is in top shape.  Take a bow Mr Dean.

[DSK]

Finally got around to putting some pics of my GK-1 in my gallery.

Pls excuse the streaky appearance of the stainless steel chassis, I was out of Acetone (and it actually appears much more obvious in the pics than real life). 

[denjo]

DSK
Awesome! Your GK-1 Platinum looks like a knight in shiny armour! How thick is your stainless steel plate?

Best Regards
Dennis