[Sonny]

I have a shelter and a jolida jd-9a phono stage and am a bit confused about how to set this up.

The Shelter's specs are:

Moving Coil (MC) Stereo Phono Cartridge
Output Voltage: 0.4mV at 1kHz 5cm/sec.
Channel Balance: within 1.0dB at 1kHz
Stylus Tip: 0.3x0.7mil Elliptical Nude Diamond
Weight: 8.1g
DC Resistance: 12 ohm
Tracking Force Range: 1.4 to 2.0g
Frequency Response: 20Hz-20kHz, +/-2dB
Recommended Load Impedance: Step-up trans within 20 ohm
                                                   Head amplifier within 100 ohm
                                                   High gain EQ-amplifier within 47 ohm

And the Jolida's is: 

Frequency Response:  5Hz to 110KHz, (+/- 1 dB)
SNR:  > 100 dB 
Distortion THD: Less than .02%
Input Impedance:  100Kohms
Output Impedance:  600 ohms 
Phono Stage:  MM: 70 dB, 5 mV
MC High: 85 dB, 0.5 mV – 1.5 mV
MC Low: 95 dB, 0.25 mV – 0.5 mV 
Input Resistance:  100 ohm, 300 Ohm, 1Kohm, 47Kohm 
Input Capacitance: 47 PF, 100PF, 150PF, 220PF 

My question is this:  I set up the MC on MC Low, the impedance at 100ohm, and it sounds good, but I just want to make sure if this is right?  There is a hum, slight, but a hum when turned up to listening levels with no music on.  The jolida is grounded and that should not be the culprite to the hum. 

Anyways, if anyone out there knows the Jolida, any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

T

[TheChairGuy]

Hey Sonny,

Nice gear 

You need about 56-60db gain for that Shelter and 100 ohm or less loading.  So, you pretty much got that right. The loading won't produce any part of the hum you are hearing.

If you've played the Jolida at 40db gain with another cartridge and didn't hear a hum, you possibly have a bad/noisy or defective tube now.  I think the Jolida uses the tubes only as cathode followers, but you'll hear one if it's bad.  Is the hum coming from both sides...if only one, switch them around and see if it moves. If the hum moves, you got yourself a bad tube - you just didn't hear it at 40db gain. The Sovtek 12AX7LPS' are quiet, fantastic sounding and reasonably priced, btw.

Make sure your TT is grounded and all headshell pins are firmly secured (and cleaned with Caig DeOxIt or the like).  With such little internal voltage from the Shelter and 60db amplification to step it up, you might be hearing a lot of things you hadn't heard previously.

Don't freak - it's likely a very small problem you can work thru.

[Sonny]

Thanks Chair Guy...
I am using the 100ohm and the low output MC on the Jolida.  I haven't used it with any other cartridge besides the shelter.The hum is not loud, it's just more prominent than my other phono pre, the Diva Audio Virtuoso.  I will probably put some better tubes in the Jolida and see how it sounds.  I am trying to see if the value of the Jolida is good vs the Diva Audio.  The Diva is 3 times more, but we'll see.

Anyways, I guess I was using the load right since i called a dealer and he said that's is probably right. 

I will give it some more listen and see. 

What phono pre do you use? and what cartridge Chair Guy?

Oh, thanks for the compliment on the system...
I like it very much!

T

[mtodde]

I am using 100 ohms for my Shelter 501 with my Modwright SWLP 9.0 Signature.  After playing around some this seemed the best to my ears and its what Dan used with his old 901.

[Sonny]

I am using 100 ohms for my Shelter 501 with my Modwright SWLP 9.0 Signature.  After playing around some this seemed the best to my ears and its what Dan used with his old 901.

Thanks...that's what i thought too...I just wanted to make sure!

[TheChairGuy]

Hey Sonny 

Simplicity has it's own virtues...so, I have a Quicksilver Full Function preamp with only MM inputs.  39db only....but sounds quite nice and I've never noticed overt tube noise at that gain level.

But, when you kick up that gain another 20db or so, you kick up the noise - and another whole lousy maddening cycle begins.  You are also introducing two more sets of rca input/outputs in the chain with a head amp or stepup involved....which can't do wonderful things for the lowest level source there is in audio.  That is a 0.4mv output cartridge.

I myself am not sure that the additional spaciousness and lower internal coil noise (due to lower DC Resistance and inductance figures) in lower output cartridges can overcome the reality of higher noise and a disrupted transmission line signal relative to higher output cartridges.

I hope to do a more complete overview/study of this to see.  I simply am not sure - I am merely 50% opinion now as I have not auditioned, in my home, a low output cartridge yet.

So, for now, I have 8 hi output cartridges I play with.  Two MC's and 6 MI/MM's. I also have an APT-Holman preamp, completely updated, coming in that features a very, very quiet gain stage and adjustable loading options for high output MI/MM's.  Hoefully it improves my listening enjoyment marginally, or more than that.

Enjoy that sytem, man

[Sonny]

Sounds like your many cartridges are a good thing too!  but doesn't setting them up a pain?
What or when do you know to listen to?

Thanks...and I will enjoy my system!!!

T

[Bill Baker]

Hey Sonny,
 I am curious about your findings with the Jolida JD9. I like to get feedback on this piece from owners/users. Many have stated that this piece is a great value for it's low price and wondering what your thoughts might be.

[Sonny]

Hey Sonny,
 I am curious about your findings with the Jolida JD9. I like to get feedback on this piece from owners/users. Many have stated that this piece is a great value for it's low price and wondering what your thoughts might be.

Bill, I will let you know.
I currently have the Diva Audio Virtuoso so, i will compare the two.  The hard thing is to find the right load/setting on the Jolida to match the Shelter.  Sometimes, too many options make it more difficult. 

[lcrim]

Take the plate on the back left side off to get at the dip switches.  On the last three over to the right set the middle top and bottom to on, this should eliminate the noise.  Also set the very first pair of dipswitches all the way over to the left, up for both top and bottom (left and right) to set impedance loading to 100 ohms.  Then the last pair of the first seven group (before the skipped space and the last three dipswitches) set these to the up position to set 220 pF  (picoFarads).   You should end up w/ only the three pair set to on, everything else to off.  Should eliminate any noise.  I rolled a pair of Sylvania 12AX7WA in and my JD9 is dead quiet.  There are other nice NOS tubes but the WA's are the real thing.

[TheChairGuy]

I am not sure having a lot of cartridges is a good thing....I wish I could have but one.  But, it is a learning process for me right now.  Although one can read, one needs to independently verify something to make it true (at least, that is how I do things in my life).

There is a significant chunk of guys that tell you anything but a moving coil is time spent wasted.  Another bunch will tell you that all Moving Coils are inherently flawed.  I know not who to believe on this subject - but choose to find out in my own time and within my own parameters of performance. 

Right now I know that moving coils have inherently less inductance and DC resistance than moving irons & magnets...and this is 99% likely the source of quietness, detail retrieval, superior imaging and transparency that audiophiles crave. Moving magnets and irons are inferior in this regard.  But ,moving magnets and irons have a certain indecipherable sense of completeness, warmth and attachment, a romantic sound....that often sounds more like real music.

Low output moving coils would likely accentuate these strengths...but bring on the frustrating (as you are finding) realities of additional gain involved.  It is all so very complex - it is no wonder to me that even die-hard music enthusiasts that love vinyl, give up on it.  There are so many variables to manipulate, and it is so time consuming, many give it up.

It is my hope that having a strong active Vinyl contingent here of guys willing to help out will spare folks some of that anguish when questions arise and that are there to help out so that you do not end up just chucking it out of frustration .  Largely, this has been the case...I know for me, I have had questions answered here by folks more knowledgeable than I on a subject and it was such a relief to have that source here 24 hours a day.

I have a Japanese table with removable headshell....and 8 headshells one for each cartridge....that takes no more than two minutes between cartridge changes.  It is great.  So is auto-return...both of these things greatly minimize vinyl hassles for me.  Whenever you can simplify with vinyl you do it as there are so many paths that lead to more hassles as you wade further into it 

Sounds like your many cartridges are a good thing too!  but doesn't setting them up a pain?
What or when do you know to listen to?

Thanks...and I will enjoy my system!!!

T

[Sonny]

Take the plate on the back left side off to get at the dip switches.  On the last three over to the right set the middle top and bottom to on, this should eliminate the noise.  Also set the very first pair of dipswitches all the way over to the left, up for both top and bottom (left and right) to set impedance loading to 100 ohms.  Then the last pair of the first seven group (before the skipped space and the last three dipswitches) set these to the up position to set 220 pF  (picoFarads).   You should end up w/ only the three pair set to on, everything else to off.  Should eliminate any noise.  I rolled a pair of Sylvania 12AX7WA in and my JD9 is dead quiet.  There are other nice NOS tubes but the WA's are the real thing.

Thanks! I'll try that when i get back in tonight from work.
Right now, it is set to 100ohm, the middle of the 3 switches and I am using the low output on the RCA out.  There are some hum and I am picking up some RF from some radio station.  I will do this tonight and let you know the results!  Also, thanks for the advice on the tubes...I have a pair of Cryoed 12ax7 tungsol that i am using, it sounds a lot more extended and full verses the stock jolida tubes. 
Is your JD-9a modded?  I hear that Underwood's level 1-3 mods are supposed to be killer!

Thanks
Tuan

[lcrim]

I've rolled the tubes a bunch til I found the Sylvanias plus I use Volex power chords on everything.  I don't even bother trying stock chords.  I've read of the Underwood mods but the damn thing sounds so good as is that I've never seriously considered it.
I have an Eastern Electric Minimax phono section as well, which has somewhat greater resolution but w/ 57 dB gain needs an output of .4 mV or greater.  
In all honesty, I put the Jolida back in the bedroom system with the Dual CS 5000 and the low output Goldring Eroica LX which is strong .5 mV output but I use the Jolida on the Low Output because the stronger signal works better w/ the Decware amp there which only has a single gain stage but sounds better w/o a line stage mucking thinggs up.
I just got a Benz Micro Glider L2 which I am listening to right now in the living room system.  KAB modded Technics 1200 MKII and the Eastern Electric Minimax phono and preamp.  The Glider has the lowest groove noise I've encountered so far.   Actually the Glider is the best cartridge I've had in every way.

[scottyb]

I just got a Benz Micro Glider L2 which I am listening to right now in the living room system.  KAB modded Technics 1200 MKII and the Eastern Electric Minimax phono and preamp.  The Glider has the lowest groove noise I've encountered so far.   Actually the Glider is the best cartridge I've had in every way.

I'm picking up my LP12 with a new Benz Glider L2 on Tuesday. Great to hear you love it. I'll be hooking it up to a Jolida JD9 that's on it way too. This thread came along just in time 

[Sonny]

Update to the JD-9 phono pre from Jolida...
Well, after playing and figuring out the set up, I listened to it this weekend and find that it is quite a bargain of a phono stage ($450 stock)!!! I am comparing it to the Diva Audio Virtuoso with step up ($1599) and I can honestly say that they are 95% comparable...  I would say that the Virtuoso is more quite, but you would have to put your ears up to the speakers to hear the difference.  Also, the JD-9 has great dynamics and nuances that I thought no stage at this price can have!  I've listened and owned the XLP-S from Musical Fidelity,the Odyssey Tempest Extreme, and some others, and I can honestly say that the JD-9 is better than these in price/performance, except for the Phono in the Odyssey Tempest, which was included in the preamp, and I tell you that's a great phono stage...I would still be using it if I didn't go to tubes!  Anyways...I think the JD-9 brings to the table a very handsome phono pre with great value..it'll be hard for me to get anything close to this in price!!!

I think where the difference is between these two are that the Diva Audio seems to be a bit more detailed and well, it is three times more!  and the JD-9 can be set up with any, and I mean ANY, cartridge out there!!!  O Dios Mio!!! what will I do??? keep the JD-9 or fork out the cash and keep the Diva Audio...

Only time will tell!!!

T