wire

cametz · « **on:** 22 Jul 2003, 10:06 pm »

I have questions about speaker wire and I thought I could get answers, or a least opinions, here. Before I get my RM2 could you help me out?
Is stranded better than solid wire? If so does the amount of threads effect the sound? More count = better sound? Can I use different gage wire for F C L and different for the surrounds? Like 10 gage for Left, Center, Right and 12 gage for the surrounds. Is 10 ga to big for the RM2? Thanks for your help.

Malcolm Fear · « **Reply #1 on:** 22 Jul 2003, 10:48 pm »

You should take some time and read the John Risch articles on cables.
Start here
http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/index2.htm

Basically solid core is better than stranded.

KevinW · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 Jul 2003, 12:37 am »

Thanks for the link to John Risch's site. I haven't been here in a while, and I find his explanations of how signal travels through a cable very enlightening. His argument for why expensive cables sound better makes very good sense. I especially liked his physical explanation of why high purity, cryogenically treated copper provides sonic benefits.

However, nowhere did I see anything that said solid core is better than stranded wire. In fact, I would say just the opposite, because solid core is going to have a higher inductance. Regardless, solid vs. stranded is only one single aspect of what makes a wire sound good. It's like saying that Ford is better than Chevy, simply because Ford uses Michelin tires, instead of Goodyear.

Regarding whether sonic problems will occur if mixing different kinds of cables into a multichannel system... I would say it really depends on the cables. If you are using cheap cables, the differences will be relatively smaller than if you used expensive cables and have a revealing system.

Malcolm Fear · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 Jul 2003, 12:51 am »

Whoops, you're right.
Quote:
When I did my cable tests for materials and construction, I didn't
notice any reliable difference between stranded and solid wires in
a cable. Neither coax or twisted pairs seemed to sound better with
one or the other type of center wire/twisted pairs.

I had it fixed in my mind that solid core was better.

Maybe I am mixing my memories of Chris Ven Haus CAT 5 recipe at

http://www.venhaus1.com/diycatfivecables.html
Quote
Individually insulated 24 ga. conductors: "Skin-effect" should be negligible through 20 Khz, due to the 24 ga. conductor size. I am not a fan of stranded copper cables due to the oxidation that builds up between strands. Copper oxide is a semi-conductor, and may adversely affect the signal quality. For this reason, individually insulated conductors are ideal.

eico1 · « **Reply #4 on:** 23 Jul 2003, 01:27 am »

just watch out for the false assumptions jr uses to paste these theories together.

steve

Sedona Sky Sound · « **Reply #5 on:** 23 Jul 2003, 01:40 am »

Hello cametz,
You will likely find as many opinions on speaker wire as there are people to give them. As soon as you find one company that says their math/calculations/listening tests say X design (i.e., super low capacitance, solid core so no strand jumping, etc.) is the absolute best, you will find another company saying the exact opposite (capacitance doesn't matter, strand jumping doesn't happen, Inductance is the issue, etc.).

My personal religion is that a stranded, low inductance (which typically means higher capacitance) cable is the best up to the point where the amp starts having trouble pushing the load (will be amp dependant). As a general guesstimate, cables over 10 feet or so should be lower capacitance. I have found 12-14 awg to be pretty optimal for most speakers and 10 awg necessary for longer runs (25+ feet), full-range speakers that need current (i.e. RM40s), or subs. All the wires I have heard with a solid core larger than 16 awg muddied the high frequencies too much IMHO.

I usually tell folks to just start off with whatever they have on hand that is of reasonable quality (i.e., the 12 awg Speaker King speaker wire at Home Depot). Once you have lived with your system for a a month or so and know how it sounds, then start playing around with better wires. You will likely hear a somewhat significant difference when using different wire. However, don't confuse "different" with "better". Sometimes it is, sometimes it is not. Even though a particular speaker cable worked wonders in a friends system, it may sound horrible in yours due to different amp/speaker/length/RFI/EMI/etc. There is no substitute for hear something in your own system.

For my demo system, I am using my own design. I am bi-wiring using low inductance, stranded, 10 awg equivalent copper for by bass and 14 awg equivalent, braided, silver covered copper for my mids/tweeter. It sounds incredible in my system, but would end up being a $300+ cable if I ever decided to sell it (which is too expensive in my mind). If you want something that sounds pretty good for cheap, I suggest finding the Stan Warren design and doing it yourself.

Best of luck.

Julian
www.sedonaskysound.com

cametz · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 Jul 2003, 04:22 pm »

Thanks for the information. The John Rich link was informative. I see that there are different thoughts about this issue. I guess the best thing to do is make a decision and do it and if I don't like it or become convinced that something else is better then try that. I see why this is a long time hobby.

Carlman · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 Jul 2003, 04:45 pm »

Quote from: cametz

Thanks for the information. The John Rich link was informative. I see that there are different thoughts about this issue. I guess the best thing to do is make a decision and do it and if I don't like it or become convinced that something else is better then try that. I see why this is a long time hobby.

Better yet, try asking a more specific question such as; 'has anyone used speaker cable with the RM40's (and amp x) that worked better than anything they had tried previously?'

You won't get as many responses but, maybe someone has found a magical combination that would at least make a good starting point.

KevinW · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 Jul 2003, 04:55 pm »

Quote from: cametz

Thanks for the information. The John Rich link was informative. I see that there are different thoughts about this issue. I guess the best thing to do is make a decision and do it and if I don't like it or become convinced that something else is better then try that. I see why this is a long time hobby.

Cametz,

Out of curiosity, what is the rest of your system like? How much do you want to spend on your speaker cables? These are all factors.

Tyson · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 Jul 2003, 05:19 pm »

I really like the Bolder cables (they have a forum here). The Nitro works as good as anything I've heard w/VMPS speakers, and the M80 isn't all that far behind it (for less $$).

One thing to realize is that the Bolder cables are built and then tested on a VMPS based audio system, so I think there is some synergy there.

cametz · « **Reply #10 on:** 25 Jul 2003, 09:00 pm »

Interesting Link

THE KIND OF WIRE MADE NO DIFFERENCE

http://home.earthlink.net/~rogerr7/wire.htm#gordongow