Anyone here ever gotten OUT of vinyl?

Hantra · « **on:** 22 Jul 2003, 04:25 pm »

I knew going in that vinyl would be an awful lot of work, and maintenance. I also knew that I would regret it if I didn't get into it just to check it out.

But right now, I am strongly considering selling off all my vinyl gear. I just had no idea how much money it would end up costing. Every time I turn around, I have to buy something else for the vinyl rig. I don't even have a decent cartridge yet, so there's anotehr $500 at least. I clean my records in the sink, and I make them sound worse than before. There's another few hundred for some type of cleaning device.

And new vinyl is expensive. Used is a pain in the ass.

Has anyone ever gotten off vinyl, and not regretted it? I mean, I love the weight, and the flow, and the dynamics. No question it is better than CD. But I am wondering if the net cost is worth it. There is likely a 10-15% improvement over CD, but it is hundreds of percent more money, and time.

Any thoughts?

B

Marbles · « **Reply #1 on:** 22 Jul 2003, 04:32 pm »

The record cleaning system was the toughest purchase I made.

I'm very happy with this $60 solution. It's quiet, quick, and easy.

http://www.garage-a-records.com/spin.html

LP's are not for everyone and I understand where your coming from. Doing Analog right is not cheap at all.

So a what albums are you going to be selling

MaxCast · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 Jul 2003, 05:05 pm »

I got out after I bought Sony's first car Cd player. Stopped buying blank cassettes, stopped recording, stopped buying LP's.

JoshK · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 Jul 2003, 05:10 pm »

Sometimes I think that after I finish my Teres project I will use it to transfer all my LPs to CD (will take some time for sure). I will keep only the best and pristine, favored LPs and sell off the rest. With this smallish subset I will decide whether it is worth keeping or whether to sell off in lieu of upgrading my digital front end.

Sometimes I wish I hadn't gotten into vinyl or atleast stayed in the lower ranks but when I spin a really good recording it seems all worth it, for a short while at least.

dogberry · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 Jul 2003, 05:31 pm »

I got out of vinyl in 1990 when I traded in all my records at Aron's Records in Hollywood, CA. I thought that CDs were the answer for many years until I started getting better and better gear, and then beginning to actively listen. Since the quality of CD mastering is once again on the down slope (just like it was in the early days of CDs), I find many of the new releases to just sound like ass.

I am very happy to be getting back into vinyl. I wish I had known about cleaning records back in the day (instead of just using a brush--which does not cut it).

My MMF-7/Monolithic PS-1 combo sounds fantastic to me, so much richer than CDs. I like the ritual of cleaning records I find for $1. I don't mind a slight pop now and then, and most of the cleaned LPs are damn near dead quiet.

I really, really like vinyl.

audiojerry · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 Jul 2003, 05:45 pm »

Here's my advice:
If you are not already into vinyl, stay the hell out...
If you are already in vinyl, but not completely happy about, get the hell out, and then sell me your albums...

Vinyl is wonderful, and not expensive, but it gets harder and harder to find great used records. The really good ones have been hoarded by the serious collectors and taken out of circulation.

Tyson · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 Jul 2003, 05:45 pm »

I was considering getting in to vinyl, but IMO, I don't like the vinyl "sound". I can see why it would appeal to a lot of people, but to me it just sounds too hyped, especially in the mids. After hearing some very nice turntables, I've decided that I'm perfectly happy w/my digital front end.

Add to that the cost and trouble of vinyl, and the temptation is just not there for me. . .

Tyson · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Jul 2003, 05:54 pm »

One addenum - older recordings (like Louis Armstrong or Billie Holliday) sound wonderful on Vinyl, better than any CD transfer I've heard. My theory is that these recordings were made specifically to sound good on vinyl, and can't quite get there on digital. More recent recordings seem to work much better on CD than the really old recordings. . .

dogberry · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 Jul 2003, 05:55 pm »

Quote from: audiojerry

Here's my advice:
If you are not already into vinyl, stay the hell out...
If you are already in vinyl, but not completely happy about, get the hell out, and then sell me your albums...

Vinyl is wonderful, and not expensive, but it gets harder and harder to find great used records. The really good ones have been hoarded by the serious collectors and taken out of circulation.

Okay, you're not going to find MoFi stuff in the dollar bin, but you can find plenty of great sounding LPs if you A) look in enough places (which can be an enjoyable pasttime in, and of, itself; B) clean your records, and C) recognize that there's a place for both LPs and CDs.

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Jul 2003, 06:09 pm »

Quote from: Tyson

One addenum - older recordings (like Louis Armstrong or Billie Holliday) sound wonderful on Vinyl, better than any CD transfer I've heard. My theory is that these recordings were made specifically to sound good on vinyl, and can't quite get there on digital. More recent recordings seem to work much better on CD than the really old recordings. . .

What does the recording have to do with the medium?

Tyson · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 Jul 2003, 06:41 pm »

Just relaying my experience. . .

meilankev · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 Jul 2003, 07:54 pm »

Hantra,

I have always listened to vinyl - it takes up probably 75% of my Home Theater time (the rest evenly split between CDs and DVD movies).

Back in 1980, I bought a Studer Revox B795 turntable, and it served as my main deck until last year. Note it still sees duty in my second system (in the Family Room). Last year, I got a Basis 1400 to replace it in my main system. Needless to say, I own quite a few albums.

I play CDs on a DVD/CD/DVD-A deck by Panasonic (DVD-RP91). This past Saturday, I again had a good friend of mine over. We listened to CDs (including DVD-A) for about an hour. But as soon as we put on an album, he said "Man, it's amazing how much better albums sound than CDs on your system". Note he had come over as month ago, and refused to listen to CDs after first listening to albums.

Of course, I know it's not a fair comparison, as my turntable (w/ arm & cartridge) is considerably more cash than my DVD player. Perhaps if I bought a $2,000 CD player/system, it would match my vinyl rig, but I doubt it.

Certainly, I like the convenience of CDs:
> skip a song if you don't like it
> pause it if the telephone rings
> hear both sides at once (no flipping the album over)

Plus, I understand how people who were not "raised on vinyl" would get turned off by the higher noise floor and the pops and crackles. But on my system, the only time CDs sound better is "when there is no music being played (i.e. - between songs)". And personally, I sit in front of my stereo to listen to music - not to listen to the gaps between the music.

Kevin

Oxia · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 Jul 2003, 09:08 pm »

Quote from: Psychicanimal

What does the recording have to do with the medium?

Quite a lot, actually. The mastering engineer has to compensate for the limitations of the medium. I recall a quote from Alan Parsons in a Stereophile interview a while back where he said something like "how can you take seriously any hi-fi medium that gradually loses treble response as you get closer to its inner tracks". I'm sure I haven't got his wording down precisely, but that was the gist of it as I recall, and it's a nice anecdote that illustrates one facet of vinyl that must be compensated by EQ during the mastering stage. In fact, it was the "vinyl-centric" EQing of old masters that made many early CDs sound so bad -- some were transferred from the original masters without regard for correcting their frequency response for digital.

Just to stay on topic, I converted away from vinyl back in the 80's. I still appreciate the sound of a good vinyl setup, but I'm with Tyson. However undeniable it's charms, I've never thought that the accentuated lushness of vinyl was entirely natural.

nature boy · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Jul 2003, 09:26 pm »

I casted my vote. Different strokes for different folks - main thing is to enjoy your system, cause it is all about the music and feeling good. That said, I guess that's why Audio Asylum has a digital drive and vinyl aylum, why AC has a digital domain and vinyl circle, etc.

Hantra, you need to simply bite the bullet and make a decision on your cartridge or simply just "give it up".

Vinyl takes some patience, care, and getting up to change the record every 20 minutes or so. I also will be delighted to find a home for any used vinyl from Audio Circle members who look to bail on vinyl. Me, I'm having a blast building my collection, listening, and putting a few of the dirty used albums I purchase through a Disc Doctor regiment.

Hey, it's an interactive medium.

NB

fredgarvin · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 Jul 2003, 11:39 pm »

I think that often when mixing down old music that was originally mastered in analog (vinyl) the conversion to digital is simply mastered poorly by folks with bad ears or simply indifferent. It is not the medium. Why is it that folks spend big bucks on pre-amps that offer the ultimate in noise-floor and yet play vinyl that is inherantly noisy? The ears are pasted to the speaker listening for hiss and yet just ignore the clicks, pops and rumble of the ole platter.

meilankev · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 Jul 2003, 11:43 pm »

Oxia,

On my system, there is absolutely no connection between "lushness" and "vinyl". Nothing could be farther from reality. Vinyl gives:

> Better attack / more realistic decay
> Unparalleled dynamics
> Wider/deeper soundstage
> More proper sense of "air" between instruments
> Woodwinds/strings that sound more "right"

I don't consider CDs to be bright or sterile. On my system, they are simply "blah" compared to vinyl. They're relatively flat, compressed, and uninspiring. To be honest, people seem to enjoy CDs on my system - until they hear an album. Without exception, I get the same response. I'm not joking when I say every single "demo song" I have is a vinyl cut.

Kevin

Marbles · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 Jul 2003, 12:16 am »

Kevin,

I can certainly understand the reason....I have the Panny RP91 and as either a CDP, or a transport for a DAC, it is sorely lacking.

Your right though...to get close to a first class vinyl rig, you have to spend around $2K on a digital rig.

zeke · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 Jul 2003, 12:32 am »

I sold all my vinyl about 6 yrs. ago. Had about 500 albums mostly from the 60's and 70's. Still keeping an old Empire Troubador Mk.2 TT just in case i might want to buy a few used. Near the end i had a vpi / blue pt. special and i thought some albums sounded better than cd's, and some worse(the majority of my collection did not better the sound of cd's -- IMO ). Overall, i do not miss the vinyl.

Before i sold the vinyl, i recorded all the tracks i wanted to a Sony DAT recorder, and later transferred the DAT's to CDR's. Now i have the best of the vinyl from that era on the convenient cd's.

Another reason i sold the vinyl was that i plan to move around somewhat during retirement. Have you thought about moving a thousand records every so often ?. No problem if you never plan on moving, but how many of us will be able to afford that ?.

Carlman · « **Reply #18 on:** 23 Jul 2003, 02:57 am »

There's no, 'casual listening' option in the poll so, I can't really vote. I've been buying new vinyl here and there for a while... I like comparing them... I'm listening to a well-used 15-year-old Adcom prototype cartridge. A friend of a friend worked at Adcom in NJ and it was given to me when I bought a good table.

So far I have less than $200 invested in my TT rig and I enjoy it immensely for what it is: midfi vinyl. It sounds surprisingly good. However, I too need a new cartridge and probably won't get one for a while. My budget is $200 for the cart.

I think you can quickly go way too far with vinyl reproduction. To get 10% better than what I have now, you'd have to spend $1,000+. That's the case with a lot of things. (incremental improvement at exponential costs) I can live without that last 10% and still enjoy the medium. So, I guess you need to decide how far you need to go to make yourself happy with the sound of vinyl.

Rock on,
Carl

JoshK · « **Reply #19 on:** 23 Jul 2003, 03:03 am »

I don't have a lot of classical or jazz LPs, mostly just rock and I find that the rock that was recorded for LP sounds better on LP and visa versa. There is no one answer, one right. I prefer most of my early 70's and late 60's classic rock on LP. 80's is a crap shoot and 90's and on is pretty much CD for sure. Of course I have exception to all of those rules.

I can't say I have been a classical afficianado long enough to have heard the difference between a reference LP and reference CD recording.

Poll

Would you get out of vinyl, or stick it out?

Anyone here ever gotten OUT of vinyl?