Nitty Gritty Performance? Decent?

In The Groove · « **on:** 6 Mar 2007, 12:51 am »

Thinking about getting an inexpensive record cleaning machine.

Are the manual NG machines good performers? These can be had for $200-300 and I see value in getting one soon instead of saving up for a $600 VPI kit.

Any advice or suggestions?

Thanks.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #1 on:** 6 Mar 2007, 02:08 am »

I've got the cheapest one - I think it's the 1.0. It works great - the pricier Nitty Gritty's are only more mechanized for ease-of-use....they all work the same. I haven't compared the two side by side, but even the cheapest VPI is more substantial than the cheapest Nitty Gritty - but a lot more.

If you already have a vacuum cleaner available. www.KABUSA.com sells a Nitty Gritty without a vacuum...so it's the least expensive (new) of all of them. And, it works every bit as well as anything pricier - you're just saving the cost of a vacuum.

If you haven't used a vacuum cleaning machine before - you are in for a treat! No hand wash I've tried can do the same. Tracking is improved, click and pop levels are reduced and highs/treble content on every record is noticeably better. The vac machines really tend to point out the tragic shortfalls of treble content in CD playback.

Enjoy - I heartily recommend vacuum cleaners - too bad it's yet another tweeky mess us vinyl-philea have to resort to for our preferred medium

hmen · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 Mar 2007, 02:15 am »

I have the 1.0 and I've been very happy with it.

claud · « **Reply #3 on:** 6 Mar 2007, 02:28 am »

My 1.5 fi has worked like a champ for the last eight years. I would not do vinyl without it.

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #4 on:** 6 Mar 2007, 02:33 am »

I bought a used Nitty Gritty Record Doctor for $60 and one Groovmaster:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Groovmaster-Label-Saver-45-LP-Vinyl-Record-Cleaner_W0QQitemZ150097442512QQihZ005QQcategoryZ618QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

It's best to rinse the record and not use the vacuum system to suck dirty water. There's much less chance of contaminating the felt pads.

woodsyi · « **Reply #5 on:** 6 Mar 2007, 02:52 am »

I use VPI 16.5 and it's so easy I would recommend it for everyone. You can get it for lot less than $600. aa Just call one of the dealers and see what they do can for you. They usually have an open box or cosmetic blem units around. Having said that, I think I can make one for a lot less and better if I had the time (which I don't)

If you have time and are handy with small tools, you can make a very good one.

lcrim · « **Reply #6 on:** 6 Mar 2007, 03:11 am »

KAB EV-1 uses the top plate from the Nitty Gritty under license. You must spin the records by hand and use your own vacuum cleaner, no shop vacs-too powerful. You really don't need anything more and I wouldn't think of not using a vacuum record cleaner. When you hear the difference it makes you'll wonder how you lived w/o it.

blakep · « **Reply #7 on:** 6 Mar 2007, 03:40 am »

Another vote for the KAB. It is without a question the best value in record cleaning out there if you have a decent. powerful and relatively quiet vacuum already. Provided that is the case, it will, in all likelihood give you superior cleaning to any of the other Nitty Gritty or even the VPI models with considerably less noise and chance of breakdown and overheating (which the Nitty Grittys have some reputation for if you're cleaning more than 5-6 albums at a time).

Short of Loricraft or Monks (I've had records cleaned on a Monks as well), with the proper fluids, the KAB is going to do as well as anything else out there, leaving you lots of money for used records.

gooberdude · « **Reply #8 on:** 6 Mar 2007, 03:01 pm »

I've had a NG 1.0 for about 4 years now, no problems whatsoever. Its pretty loud, but
other than that cleans like a champ.

Get on board with a good cleaning regimine to address removal of the Mold Release Compound,
and you'll only clean each LP once.

the EV-1 that KAB sells would be cool too...

In The Groove · « **Reply #9 on:** 6 Mar 2007, 03:40 pm »

Thanks for the great feedback. I appreciate it.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 Mar 2007, 04:14 pm »

Yeah, good point GooberMatt makes.....I've not had occasion to ever wash my records a second time, once done with the vacuum cleaning machine. Further cleaning simply consist of a swipe of carbon fibre brush before each side played.

I have albums I washed with my dealers VPI some 20+ years ago - didn't benefit (or, if it did, the benefit was beyond my capability of hearing it) further from another wash. Vacuum cleaning does seem like it's a once and done procedure.

I used to pre-clean my records with Premiere (nee, Contact Cleaner C by MicroCare) that removed the mold release compound that was present in the manufacture of every record....but I found the benefit was fairly small and not worth the additional ritual (and cost) of doing. Vacuum cleaning them, however, is mandatory (my wash includes a anti-bacterial agent, along with the general deep cleaning, that seems helpful, too)

Every record you clean seems like you just upgraded your cartridge by $100.00+ - so substantial is the benefit to high frequency content, in particular.

lcrim · « **Reply #11 on:** 6 Mar 2007, 04:51 pm »

I have used the EV-1 on some records repeatedly. I live in NJ and its just a dusty place. Since I have been keeping the "dust" cover on while playing records, they have been staying cleaner. I also use a static (or anti-static) gun right after cleaning. I bought some vinyl lined sleeves as the original sleeves would sometimes put back the crap I just cleaned off.
Another advantage of a direct drive TT is that the record continues to spin when you hold a brush on it before playing. The belt drive Dual requires a different brush w/ long soft bristles and even w/ that, the platter sometimes stops a bit.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #12 on:** 6 Mar 2007, 05:19 pm »

PA,

That's a brilliant little device

...very eco-friendly, too (removes any vacuum from the chore of cleaning). Hadn't seen it before - will look further into it.

I didn't know there was any in-between devices out there (between manual washing and vacuum cleaning), does anyone have an opinion of this item?: http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Nagaoka-CL-152-Lp-Record-Cleaner-not-Discwasher_W0QQitemZ5848614767QQihZ008QQcategoryZ3283QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

Might be good to use at night when vacuuming is not exactly viewed positively by the others in the house.

Quote from: Psychicanimal on 6 Mar 2007, 02:33 am

I bought a used Nitty Gritty Record Doctor for $60 and one Groovmaster:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Groovmaster-Label-Saver-45-LP-Vinyl-Record-Cleaner_W0QQitemZ150097442512QQihZ005QQcategoryZ618QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

It's best to rinse the record and not use the vacuum system to suck dirty water. There's much less chance of contaminating the felt pads.

In The Groove · « **Reply #13 on:** 6 Mar 2007, 05:47 pm »

The Nagoaka looks pricey for a modified lint brush. I wonder if a gel lint roller would come close.

My concern would be with any residues left over.

gooberdude · « **Reply #14 on:** 6 Mar 2007, 05:55 pm »

When i initially purchased the NG 1.0, i was using the VPI solution in concentrate and mixing with 1 gallon of store bought distilled water. For a 1 step solution, this seems to work pretty good and i can buy the VPI stuff locally.

About a year or 2 later the 'mold release compound' debate really seemed to heat up. Since i was out of VPI, i tried the $8 - 3 bottle Audio Intelligent wash system promo. this required purchasing a few more brushes and keeping the vacuum mouth felt pads pretty clean. a big step up in maintenance.

Even though a 3 step process is a PITA, only after this do i feel my LP's are 'clean for life'. Not sure if others have seen this, but there is an oily sludge that's on all new LP's. Since i buy a lot of new LP's, taking the extra time and spending the extra $ makes a lot of sense. Plus, knowing that I don't have
to wash them again is the best part.

for someone just jumping into this, i'd recomend sticking with a 1 step cleaner initially. BUT, with all things in this hobby you pick up ideas and tweak the process as you go. i don't have any cleaning fluids now and won't be using the AI stuff again....probably going to the RRL camp next time i buy records.

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #15 on:** 7 Mar 2007, 12:45 am »

Quote from: gooberdude on 6 Mar 2007, 05:55 pm

About a year or 2 later the 'mold release compound' debate really seemed to heat up. Since i was out of VPI, i tried the $8 - 3 bottle Audio Intelligent wash system promo. this required purchasing a few more brushes and keeping the vacuum mouth felt pads pretty clean. a big step up in maintenance.

Even though a 3 step process is a PITA, only after this do i feel my LP's are 'clean for life'. Not sure if others have seen this, but there is an oily sludge that's on all new LP's. Since i buy a lot of new LP's, taking the extra time and spending the extra $ makes a lot of sense. Plus, knowing that I don't have
to wash them again is the best part.

I don't think any record cleaning system is entirely capable of removing the mold release agents. I do add a little bit of Purple Death degreaser to my mix and problem solved.

blakep · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 Mar 2007, 01:28 am »

I have the Nagaoka roller and, in my experience, it does leave a bit of a film on the record. I basically use it as the final step with really dirty records before a wet clean, following a carbon fibre brushing to get as much as possible off the record and before application of the fluid. That way I'm dealing with a record that is as clean as possible of the big cruddy stuff before I do the wet clean. Personally I wouldn't use it without following up with a wet clean and I never use it as basic maintenance cleaning.

beachbum · « **Reply #17 on:** 7 Mar 2007, 02:36 am »

hey chairguy just joined the kb ng 1.0 team, got tired of taking all of the stuff off of my wifes lazy susan from the pantry every time i cleaned lps, that was part of my manual lp cleaning system, it worked just fine, but i have a feeling the ng 1.0 is going to be easier and faster than my old way of manual lp cleaning, i take it that a lp needs to be cleaned over the long end of the unit for some support, well when i get the unit i am sure its self explanatory, thanks for the tip, was going the nitty gritty 1.0 route till this thread, mike

lcrim · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 Mar 2007, 04:03 pm »

There is no mold release agent being used in the manufacturing process of records. It's a myth. I hesitated posting this as I did not want to cause any hard feeling but do some research and discover the facts. Nothing is being sprayed or otherwise applied to the surface to aid in releasing the record from the stampers. Additives are added to the raw PVC pellets to make it more easily worked in the manufacturing process. Among the additives are certain materials such as amide waxes that it has been speculated incorrectly by some, to leave a residue. The fact is that a vinyl record is at its cleanest when just newly pressed.
I'm going to link a fairly recent thread from the Asylum which can give you the high lights. The discussion there is not from first sources but it does give you most of the story.
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=vinyl&n=632305&highlight=mold+release&r=&session=

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #19 on:** 7 Mar 2007, 06:13 pm »

Very cool, Larry - another audiophool myth debunked.

That would certainly account for the fact that I found little or no difference in pre-cleaning with a mold release agent (Premiere, nee Contact Cleaner C by Mirco-Care) before the vacuum cleaning. It was an effective cleaner...but it dredged up so much you needed to vacuum clean the record right afterwards, anyhow.

That's why I cut it from my cleaning ritual a while back.

Cool, I love simplifying when I can and where possible