Help Save My Friend From The Dark Side

Captain Humble · « **on:** 21 Jul 2003, 01:04 pm »

A friend of mine is in the market for a Music/HT system. Yesterday he told me his research is complete and his conclusion is that Bose owns the market place because they are the BEST IN THE WORLD at H/T. He also believes that Bose is now doing most of the commercial movie theaters. He intends to spend about $1,600 on a Bose Accustimass system. The sales people have told him he will probably need to buy a better subwoofer than the one that comes with his system.

Audio is secondary to him. Just wants it to play very loud.
H/T is the driving factor. Wants to feel like he is in a commercial theater.
Does not want big speakers. Would prefer not to see them at all.
In his opinion Bose fits the bill perfectly.

Budget – I’m not really sure. Intends to put most of his money into a huge TV. My guess is that we could go to $2,000 on speakers.

I’ve heard a couple of Bose systems and I truly wish I shared his opinion. It would sure make things simple and much less expensive then what I’m building.

QUESTIONS:

At his price point is Bose a good choice?

Can he do better at this price point?

What must he spend to see a significant improvement over Bose?

Thanks.

JoshK · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 Jul 2003, 01:06 pm »

Tell him to take a look into Gallo's. They are intended to take Bose Acoustimass head on AFAIK.

Merle · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 Jul 2003, 01:15 pm »

Let him buy the Bose. People who are not audiophiles think people who are are nuts. If someone want Bose, I say more power to them. I have a friend who still has his 601's he purchased in the early 70's. I think they sound like hammered crap, he loves them. So much so that when the surrounds rotted out, he ordered replacement drivers from Bose. I tried to tell him that I could fix them for him without replaceing the whole speaker but he didn't care, he thought they were worth the expense of new drivers. Point of my story is this. Your friend is not an audiophile. Your friend is set on Bose. Let him buy them. If you insist he buys something else, he'll always wish he had bought the Bose. People are either audiophiles or their not. If you know nothing about stereo's [which is 95% of the general public] then Bose is what you aspire to. Sad but true. You've tried to show him better and he still wants the Bose. Your work is done.

PhilNYC · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Jul 2003, 01:32 pm »

Given all of his criteria, Bose may not be a bad choice for him. Certainly from a sound quality perspective, he can do MUCH better at that price (and probably couldn't do much worse!). But given that he wants speakers that "he'd rather not see", Bose Acoustimass does fill that bill...and they can play loud. Others in the price range that I'd recommend he at least checks out are Energy's Encore HT System and Anthony Gallo speakers (as someone else also recommended)...both are relatively small, and both will put the Bose to shame from a sound quality perspective.

On a side note, I thought JBL was doing most commercial theaters, not Bose...?

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Jul 2003, 01:55 pm »

I would drive him to the store and help him carry the stuff. He'll be happy ever after.

Those people will always think Bose is it--like the guy from my employer's St. Louis Service center who listened to my system--he said I should have gotten the Bose Acoustimass!!!

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 Jul 2003, 02:03 pm »

From the following Agon ad
http://show.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/sh.pl?spkrfull&974697518&item&&4&5&6&http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fs_srch.plQQANYAAAApurlsrchAAALLAAstAAAAAAgallo
looks like the Gallo system is $1500 retail.
Gallo also offers the Due speaker (sorta a double micro) thats awfully good-looking even if it's not hooked up.

TheeeChosenOne · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 Jul 2003, 03:19 pm »

If your friend has email, tell him to read this thread. There may be hope for him yet (i.e. better mini systems):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=214670

EDS_ · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 Jul 2003, 04:27 pm »

Quote from: Captain Humble

He also believes that Bose is now doing most of the commercial movie theaters.

Audio is secondary to him. Just ...

Smart still "owns" most movie theater pre-and amp business.
Most every time I see a movie I ask about the audio system the term Bose has never come up-not even once.

Bose HT is crap and should be avoided at all costs.

Additionally, almost no new movie theater building is going on now in the US.
A friend of mine is a mid-level brain at Cinemark HQ over on the Noth Dallas Tollway.

thepogue · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 Jul 2003, 06:38 pm »

the take 5 system (v.2) is a real bargain I'd say. I put my ear on a Gallo system a few months ago and we very disappointed. I love the look of those lil buggers but to be honest I wasn't at all impressed with the sound sorry to say. I'm not at all sure what the source was or how good the set up was...but it was a dealer and it only took me a few minutes to do an about face. A couple of years ago I picked up a used take 5 v.1 for $350 including shipping and the v.2 is much improved. That's the road I be heading down. Engery's top HT system go for about 1200.00 and is very impressive IMO.

Good luck, Pogue

Carlman · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 Jul 2003, 07:10 pm »

Quote from: Captain Humble

He also believes that Bose... etc.

That sounds about right. Believing is what Bose is all about.... the marketing worked. If you believe it's good, it will be. He may have told himself that it's in all the theaters now. Who knows? He's clearly excited about it and by all means should buy it.

Plus, if your friend buys the Bose and thinks it sounds great, he'll be happy... until he hears something he likes better. Although, he'll probably always believe his is better... and to him, it may be.

I personally don't think Bose sucks for HT. For the most part, I think HT sucks.... The sound in the theaters suck even more... loud and raspy... sounds like JBL or Klipsch at clipping levels generally. Is the goal to listen to the movie correctly or to mimic 'the theater experience'... if the latter, the Bose will surpass it.

Sedona Sky Sound · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 Jul 2003, 07:52 pm »

I heard Mark Shiftner's new Theater-in-a-Box system a few weeks back. For $899 it is an absolute no-brainer. It is FAR better than anything Bose has put out. When friends/relatives ask what to buy for less than $1k, that will be my unwavering answer until something better comes onto the market. Some of Mark's other stuff is also a good buy for the money at least for HT (I would not recommend it for music though).

Julian
www.sedonaskysound.com

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 Jul 2003, 08:28 pm »

You really ought try to get him into Best Buy and steer him towards some KLH. The sound and build quality is the same, but he'd only spend about a tenth as much. Sure they sound crappy, but so do the B(l)ose. And the KLH rig is just as small. I'm not joking here; if he dsn't care about the sound he may as well save some money.

Funnily enough, years ago an aquaintance of mine had some B(l)ose 901's. When the foam all rotted out, I tried to convince him to buy something decent. But OH NO, B(L)OSE IS THE BEST! he cried. Eventually I steered him to a refoam kit, and he spent all his spare time over the next couple weeks refoaming them. Well, eventually I talked him into stopping by to check out my speakers (some Monitor Audio's) and he was dumbstruck- he couldn't believe how poor his sounded compared to mine. Long story short- he ordered a pair just like mine the very next day! Years later, he's still using the Monitors, and the B(l)oses are being used in the workshop in his garage.

Hmmm....I guess the morale of the story is that sometimes even a complete "B(l)ose Zombie" can be turned from the dark side when exposed to something better (which of course, includes almost any other speaker!

).

HarleyMYK · « **Reply #12 on:** 21 Jul 2003, 08:51 pm »

I tried to talk a friend of mine out of buying Bose with this article
B*$E Acoustimass - Better Profit Margins Through Shortcuts

and this set of FAQ's
B*$e FAQ's

He still bought a full on Bose system. It has the DVD player built into the receiver with NO COMPONENT VIDEO OUT! I don't think it even has progressive scan or S-video out, but I am not positive. (In all fairness, I think the new units do have component video.) What makes this even more depressing is that he has a fantastic Sony KV-40XBR700 or 800 40" CRT HDTV (with no HD of course).

Captain Humble · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Jul 2003, 12:31 pm »

My buddy proclaimed Bose to be the Alpha & the Omega regardless of price over a year ago, and I doubt even the link provided by HarleyMYK would dissuade him.

So, rather than trying to burst his bubble, I'm going to follow the advice many of you gave me and mind my own business. I'm not going to carry the boxes, but I take my SPL meter over to his place and help him set it up. I'll even validate his impressions of the system and not get into a pissing contest I can't win.

Thanks guys.

Jay S · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 Jul 2003, 02:00 pm »

A friend blew $3k on a Bose system and very proudly showed it to me. I didn't want to tell him that it would sound like crap. I just kept on making comments on how nice and small the speakers were and how they would blend in easily with the decor of his room, etc.

When people come to my place, I make sure to play a few tracks on the stereo. They can then draw their own conclusion.

Carlman · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 Jul 2003, 02:39 pm »

Quote from: Jay S

When people come to my place, I make sure to play a few tracks on the stereo. They can then draw their own conclusion.

I've found that when people come to my place, the stereo plays low and no one notices or understands or cares why I spent so much time and effort on it. There's about 2 in 10 that would care to hear it (if there's time).

I think average listeners are wowed by big bass and sound coming at all angles... not accurate reproduction. So, the standard to which my system is compared is not good.

The average person does not critically listen to music... nor do they want to.... so, Bose makes a great status symbol and provides listening enjoyment to them. I never try to steer the person away from what they like unless they say, it looks nice but, it sounds 'off' somehow.

JackStraw · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 Jul 2003, 02:52 pm »

Quote from: Sedona Sky Sound

I heard Mark Shiftner's new Theater-in-a-Box system a few weeks back. For $899 it is an absolute no-brainer. It is FAR better than anything Bose has put out. When friends/relatives ask what to buy for less than $1k, that will be my unwavering answer until something better comes onto the market. Some of Mark's other stuff is also a good buy for the money at least for HT (I would not recommend it for music though).

Julian
www.sedonaskysound.com

What is it and where is it available? Thanks for the info.

Sedona Sky Sound · « **Reply #17 on:** 22 Jul 2003, 09:01 pm »

Hello JackStraw,
You will be able to find them on AV123 but it does not look like the info is posted yet. Looks like the offical name of the product is the ELT-1 (http://www.av123.com/about_news.php). I have a few pictures of them that I took in Dallas if anyone is interested.

I also noticed some pictures in the forum about some $499 mini-speakers but have not heard those.

Julian
www.sedonaskysound.com