[TONEPUB]

Just curious what you guys might think of Reel to Reel tape.
I have heard rumors that it is making a comeback and I have
a few of them myself.  Nothing exotic, just a few TEAC's.

Our good friend and columnist, Steve Hoffman just got me
a mint 4300SX for Christmas and I have been enjoying the
heck out of it.  We also have a great tape head preamp in
for review that is also quite good..

Let us know what you think!

[CIAudio]

I still use an old Pioneer RT-909 in my main system (along with many other sources)...mainly for live recording with a stereo ribbon mic, also have reels of spooky halloween stuff to scare the neighbor kids 

[Bill Baker]

Hello Tone,
 While I haven't listen to them in a while, I do have a few older units laying around. Most of what I have are older tube units with my favorite being an old Bell? It is now in need of some servicing and hopefully I will get around to doing so some day.

On a good, well serviced and/or maintained RTR machine, I think many would be quite impressed. There something to be said about good quality analog!

[Wardsweb]

I run a Teac X-1000R in my 2-channel rig and love it. There are many advantages to tape; ease of use, great analog sound, no noise, not as fragile as vinyl. Here is a pic of one of my R2R that I veneered in Brazilian rosewood. (old pic - system has morphed a bit)


Another Teac X-1000R in a rolling rack/stand.

[F-100]

This may be a dump question but which method or how do you get music into Reel to Reel tape?

[Bill Baker]

This may be a dump question but which method or how do you get music into Reel to Reel tape?

 Basically, it is a tape deck using reels rather than small cassettes so the methods would be the same. You have your typical record inputs and signal outputs as you would on a normal cassette deck.

[CIAudio]

I prefer the Akai reel to reels for their extra long lasting GX Glass and Ferrite heads, as they last nearly forever, and stay in permanent alignment for decades and decades.  But for reason unknown to me, some other Reel sets not using ferrite heads, just seem to sound more musically dynamic to me.

Most machines use ferrite heads, but they are soft and tend to wear quickly. The Akai heads use a thin layer of glass over the ferrite which prevents the wear, but also degrades performance due to the gap between the head and tape created by the glass, and also increases crosstalk.

The Pioneer RT-909 is a rather nice set, but tape tension as nominally set as per the Factory, and the Service Manual, is set so high, the heads wear out in under 1000 hours of use.  Also the Pioneer pinch rollers tend to totally turn to goo, when repeatedly cleaned with normal alcohol solutions ??? 

The RT-909 has been very reliable for me...I puchased extra heads, belts, and pinch rollers a few years ago when parts were still available. I replaced these parts about 3 years ago and she still works great. Many pinch rollers are damaged when cleaned with alcohol...I just remove them and wash them in warm water (alcohol dries out rubber).

[Imperial]

What is the best "normal" priced reel to reel deck? I mean replay quality of sound?
And what is the best "normal" priced reeltape type?

Any hints will be most appreciated.

Imperial

[Wayner]

I halve a Revox A77 half track high speed that I bought 32 years ago. It still runs great but I wish I would have gotten a 1/4 track instead. It is great running the tape backwards to discover secrets hidden in the music. My favorite is the beginning of ELectric Light Orchestra's Fire on High from the "Face the Music" album with which the beginning actuallys say "The Music is reversable, but time is not. Turn back! Turn back! Turn Back!
 aa
W

[TONEPUB]

Good one!  That's how I found that little piece of trivia myself at a new years eve party!

[slbender]

Hi TONEPUB -

Despite many of my prior posts here being censored, and moved to inappropriate places by rabid moderators... I try again.

Two paragraphs removed due to censoring moderator.

See http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=38022.0 if you want to read my original post.

I own about twelve RTR's (plus another dozen "parts donor" machines and almost working ones).  I prefer the Akai reel to reels for their extra long lasting GX Glass and Ferrite heads, as they last nearly forever, and stay in permanent alignment for decades and decades, and the tape transports are reasonably well made on the more expensive (upper middle to high end of the line for sets made after 1972).  Still, for reasons unknown to me, some other Reel sets not using ferrite heads, just seem to sound more musically dynamic, there excists the possibly that non-ferrite heads which are more common, have sonic attributes that outweigh the need to replace said heads every 1,500 hours or so.  For me, high quality source materials are a necessity, more than for most audiophiles or casual listeners, since I also design advanced ULT Transistor Amplifiers, and SET Vacuum Tube Amplifiers.  Still it appears that most Audio Circle people delve into building and designing such things,m but I have yet to see or hear of anyone designing a Reel to Reel, so I guess what is left is whatever working sets, or semi-working sets exist from the 1960's, 1970's, and early 1980's.

My Fav RTR's include: the Akai PRO-1000 (2 Track format), GX-400D; GX-400D-ss, GX-650D, GX-600DB, GX-266II, GX-267D, GX-255; The Sansui SD-7000; Pioneer RT-909; the Tandberg 9200x; and now the Kenwood KW-8077.  I just got the Kenwood last week, and delving into its innerds, I am still in the process of cleaning and repairing it.  I was somewhat impressed, considering that Kenwood is not at all known for making Reel to Reel machines, and apparently only made three or four models. I find this Kenwood has a very quiet and superior transport - circa 1972; one with rather very few weaknesses in its design.  So it was a nice surprise, to discover, some thirty-five years after the fact. 

In the past, I've owned four or five Teac's in the past and have to say I was never really impressed with their sound, it always seemed a bit "transistory" or distorted sounding, and as well, there were significant weaknesses in some of their their mechanical designs and transports (but some were better than others - better were the older power guzzling sets with hot running motors and lots of relays).  Personally, I just couldn't live with the Teac's particular set of compromises, and I sold them all.

I have a few higher level Tandberg 9000 Series, these are nice, but again, seem always to develop mechanical troubles with the traveling crossfield head, the speed change idlers, or the belts in single motor designs; and the VU meters tend to fall apart, the pointers falling off, which is never good...  Earlier 9000 Series sets tend to blowout their power supplies after two decades or so, and the logic IC's in all 9000, 10X and 20A sets are totally proprietary, NLA, and can not be replaced with known off the shelf logic IC's, making replacement parts extremely difficult to get.

The Pioneer RT-909 is a rather nice set, but tape tension as nominally set as per the Factory, and the Service Manual, is set so high, the permalloy heads wear out and develop bad groove lines in the head surface in under 1000 hours of use.  That may have been acceptable back in the 1980's when replacement heads and parts were both readily available and cheap.  But now that the heads and the parts that are prone to failure on that model can no longer be purchased, it is a true crapshoot when buying or using one.  Also the Pioneer pinch rollers tend to totally turn to goo, when repeatedly cleaned with normal alcohol solutions ???  Studer, Ampex, Revox, Akai, Teac, Sony, and Tandberg machines never had such problems, so one wonders what Pioneer's people were thinking ???

While the RT-909 is a heavily built, smart looking machine, with the modern looking blue flourescent digital counter and peak reading VU meters, it is also quite a complex machine, with almost incomprehensible schematics and way too many parts.  Does it really need two separate sets of stereo preamplifier's one for Forward Play and one for Reverse Play - twice as many parts to go bad... ?  So it's a great machine, and highly regarded, and yet it can become a big doorstop when the heads are worn, or when it needs repair.  Complex and finicky as a woman

Indeed, in looking back upon hundreds of RTR's, including those that I've owned, those that people have told me about, and those people have sent to me, to repair, which they bought on eBay or elsewhere, it is kinda sad, that I only know of two or three units which were still working at or close to original factory specifications 27 to 46 years later.  So to generalize, nearly 99% of current Reel machines out there can no longer surpass, or even come close to its original factory specifications for: Frequency Response, Signal to Noise Ratio, Wow and Flutter, or Distortion - without a complete overhaul, or rebuild, that is just a simple fact of life.  Truth is, these consumer sets were designed for 3 to 5 years of light use, which translates to about 1,500 to 3,000 hours of tape recording and playing use, that lower number being just about what one can expect from a diamond needle moving magnet cartridge before wear and distortion becomes drastic...

So now 27 to 46 years after our Akai, Sansui, Pioneer, Tandberg and Kenwoods were made, just about all of them are having or developing hum, hissy fits, total channel failures, Servo control failures, belt and wheel drive idler failures and problems, poor speed regulation, excessive tape tension, relay contact failures, worn out Record and Playback heads (except most GX Akai's), Ferrite Head surface problems due to surface chipping failures (in Ferrite Heads having no glass surface), excessive wow and flutter, motor failures, and/or motor-run caps failures, and other catastrophic power supply and logic failures, as well as simple mechanical failures and breakages.

And now to sadly admit - to add insult to injury, about 95% of repair shops will no longer accept these wonderful Reel to Reel sets for repair for the following reasons: 1) We can't get repair parts.  2) We can't find Service Manuals and Technical Info.  3) Its older than our technicians.  4) It would cost more to service than it is worth.  5) Once you fix one thing, four or five more things break in short succession and it gets to be a Pain In The Ass (411 translation: because our techs have no idea what they are doing to repair a set like this, it breaks again and again).

Steven L. Bender

Just curious what you guys might think of Reel to Reel tape.
I have heard rumors that it is making a comeback and I have
a few of them myself.  Nothing exotic, just a few TEAC's.

Our good friend and columnist, Steve Hoffman just got me
a mint 4300SX for Christmas and I have been enjoying the
heck out of it.  We also have a great tape head preamp in
for review that is also quite good..

Let us know what you think!

[Wayner]

So now 27 to 46 years after our Akai, Sansui, Pioneer, Tandberg and Kenwoods were made, just about all of them are having or developing hum, hissy fits, total channel failures, Servo control failures, belt and wheel drive idler failures and problems, poor speed regulation, excessive tape tension, relay contact failures, worn out Record and Playback heads (except most GX Akai's), Ferrite Head surface problems due to surface chipping failures (in Ferrite Heads having no glass surface), excessive wow and flutter, motor failures, and/or motor-run caps failures, and other catastrophic power supply and logic failures, as well as simple mechanical failures and breakages.

I quess that's why I bought a ReVox all those years ago because it has a lifetime warranty, it still works and very well and I never once thought that Akai, Sansui, Pioneer, Tandberg and Kenwoods were built anywhere near the same quality as a ReVox. I listen to tapes on Maxell UD 35-90 that I've made years ago off of FM and they still sound great. By the way, The ReVox I have is the Mk IV and has been modified by Lamm laboratories with synchronization and tape drive off options. I did alot of live recordings years ago so this thing has also been hauled all around the countryside, winter and summer.

W

[danielpsantos]

Despite of some mechanical trouble that some Tandberg  machines had, they were and still are the best sounding machines. Anyone interested can read old magazines that make comparisons on these machines and take their own conclusions.

I have a 3400x reel to reel that was from my father. He bought a TD 20. As I am an electronic engineer, I read the schematics and made some modifications in order to improve the sound quality, replacing old capacitors with new and better ones. The sound gained in detail. I tested it recording alive sound before and after the modifications I done. I can say I made a reel to reel tuning.
The 3400x is much older than me and after a lots of use with some maintenance done it keeps working fine.

[Imperial]

This link is interesting!!
http://www.atrtape.com/

As it seems, a new reel tape has been made.
Now all we need is a new open reel player manufacturer!

And the resurgence might start! 

Imperial

[S Clark]

Well, now you got my curiosity up about R2R.  I have a Teac 2300 out in the garage that hasn't been run in a decade, and a big box of tapes somewhere???  Any advice for bringing this out of mothballs and back to life?

[Wayner]

Bring 'er in and plug it in...let's see what happens! I'd clean the tape heads, tape path and capstan roller before I would play any tape. Plug it into your system, put a tape on with the volume really low and see what happens from there. I'm looking at my ReVox right now and thinking the same thing. Time to fire that bad boy up too.

Hope it runs fine!

Wayner 

[Wayner]

Man, I remember as a kid buyin' albums and playing them the first time, That is when we'd put them onto R2R, side one on one side of the tape, side 2 on the other. I remember Kansas, Leftoverture being out of this world. I also remember it being very difficult to record Pink Floyd's Dark side of the Moon, (too dynamic) and had to gain ride the VU meters like a bastard....you never took your hands off the level controls and stared at the VU meters forever. Oh to be young again.

Wayner

[niklasthedolphin]

I have Reel to Reel tape machine and had R2R of one kind or another since the mid sixties.
I never gave up on those wonderful machines.

I find that this source, compared to any other source in a setup, delivers the highest potential of sound quality.

If you have an opportunity to go out and make your own master recordings from Live or Studio events with professionaly and well made stage set-up with the right amount (not to many) of B&K or Roede Mic's and you don't manipulate the signals more than needed, you can get a tape recording that leaves EVERYTHING ELSE far behind to be ashamed.

If you just want to record the heavy vinyl from friends collection or live broadcastings, CD's, DXD 24BIT/352.8kHz or just high resolution digital encoding like 32/196, go ahead record; you won't hear the difference.

I've had Akai, Teac, Revox, Sony, Pioneer, Saba, Telefunken, Studer, Tascam, Tandberg and many other brands.

I was fond of everyone of them.

I kept what I found to be the best.

The Lyrec PTR-1 Frida

Let me just go into a few details about the Lyrec PTR-1 Frida for a moment.


This machine had a price tag from new at Dkr. 76.000,-
Today currency exchange ~ us$ 16.000,- / £ 7.600,-
Fairly cheap compared to other brands because of the concept of only selling directly from factory.
Lyrec made also matrice cutting gear, tapepacking gear, vinyl pressing machines and multi track machines.

This machine took over from Nagra T and Stellavox SP9 in studios in Switzerland, the homeland of Nagra and Stellavox.

It is modular built with insert cards and is really a piece of engineering art.
Specs is next to none.
The machine is (kind of) portable.

Unfortunately the factory closed down in the spring 2008.
Spares will be scarce from now on.

These machines are impossible to operate without reading and understanding the manual.
They look as if they are up to nothing but under the hood a world of allignments and option are hidden.

Rec level and Eq are seperately adjustable seperate for each channel, seperate for each speed seperate for PB and for Rec and Bias is adjustable seperate for each channel and seperate for each speed.

Runs at three speeds: 3,75 ips; 7,5 ips; 15ips
But with fully adjustable pitch control it also plays 30 ips. Actually up to 48 ips.
But what machine records at that speed?
Display switchable between timer and speed. Shows also pitch speed with precise read out with two digits.

Has a dump-tape option.

Takes 11,8 inch/30 cm reels.

Real time counter w/two flags and goto.
HX-Pro.
ICIR(IEC)/NAB EQ.
Calibration in/out.
Fader start.
Editing board.
Remote controlled etc.
Remote control pin code in manual. So you can build you own very advanced remote.

Sound Quality of recording and playback is equal to or better than B67, A80, A810 or any other Studer, Nagra T, Stellavox SP9, any Otari, any Tascam, any Teac, any Revox, any Fostex, any Technics, any Ampex, any Pioneer, any Sony, any Mitshubishi, any Samsung, Ferrograph..............any deck.
Next to no other R2R.

There is more to it............a lot more.
But I'm not going to make a compendium about the subject.

It's amazing they are obtainable at these low prices today.
That is how it is with all R2R.
To our advantage.
General appreciation of the best source ever is way to low but maybe rising again........... slowly.

The analog sources and analog gear in general deserves a revival .................. and are getting it!
If not at this very moment then soon.

"dolph"

[danielpsantos]

Unfortunately my generation did not catch the R2R in full plenitude. These machines were not accessible to everyone due to their price. I born in 1977 and since my youth I listened with my father his favourite music on the 3400x R2R.
However earlier the things were a bit different. Who ever wanted to record something on tape, had to use a reel to reel recorder. I have small reel tapes with recorded voices of my grandfather and other important family persons, already gone, when they were young. A friend of mine offered me a Tandberg R2R model 2TF that still works with vacuum tubes. I fixed it and it started working. I took that R2R to my father's home and gathered the family. I started playing that tape on the 2TF. I can not put into words the feeling among the presents.
I may say that the human hearing is very complex and is not an oscilloscope or a spectrum analyser that will say that a top digital equipment sounds a lot better than an analog one because it has less THD. Does anyone buy > 50.000$ equipment based on graphics or technical data? No. The equipment has to be listened. And I may say that analogue equipment may have less dynamic range... but is sounds smoothed and detailed. I can listen louder my R2R recorder than the CD player because my ears do not get tired. Something happens when natural analogue signal is transposed to the digital world or vice-versa... human ears are sensitive to that. I believe so.
I also believe that this analogue passion will keep alive those R2R bad boys that make the difference on each living room with their impressive presence.

[Imperial]

I've made theatrical radio plays on reel players, it was fun to mix them and stuff.
Not used reel players for music though.

Imperial