[jrebman]

I'm looking for recommendations for a tube pre to put in front of my RWA Signature 70s.  I really like the 70s, so don't misinterpret this as finding fault with them.  I'm a tube guy at heart, and I've just come to the conclusion that I really need that extra bit of harmonic body that tubes provide, and I'd like to do that with a good preamp.  Additionally, I don't think an all-passive system is going to cut it with the AZ Adagios as the load.  The things I would be looking for are:

* Quiet.

* dynamic, good bass control, and as neutral a presentation as possible (no excessive tube bloat)

* remote volume

* at least 4 sets of inputs and 2 outputs.

* would prefer an option for a phono stage and headphone amp

I'd like to spend in the neighborhood of $1500, obviously less would be preferrable, but could do more for the right one.  Don't mind kits either.

Currently, the one that looks most interesting is the AVA T-8, but I certainly don't know everything that's out there, so that's why I'm asking the AC crowd

If anybody out there has any experience with putting a tube pre in front of the Sig 70s, I'd especially like to hear what you found.

Thanks,

Jim

[miklorsmith]

I had a Modwright SWL 9.0SE in front of a Clari-T and it was superb!  There are several up on Agon right now for around your price range.

And, when you're up for an upgrade, the new tubed rectifier looks like a surefire path at around $500 - win/win.

[AB]

Modwright SWL 9.0SE.

Used they are a steal at around $1500. With Modwright's upgrade possibilities you can take the unit up to the SWLP and you will have a tremendous linestage and phono stage.

I haven't heard one with RWA but I have heard the SWL with several other class D amps - CIA D200s, RedDragon, etc. and have been impressed with the synergy there.

[AB]

I had a Modwright SWL 9.0SE in front of a Clari-T and it was superb!  There are several up on Agon right now for around your price range.

And, when you're up for an upgrade, the new tubed rectifier looks like a surefire path at around $500 - win/win.

Well, well, well, you beat me to it.

[rajacat]

For a few $'s more. http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1177898376.

Raj

[jrebman]

Ah, now this looks interesting.  I have no idea why I didn't consider this, but many thanks for bringing it to my attention.  I guess I just assumed it was way out of my price range.  Looks like it will even fit in the new rack I'm planning.

I can't see the photos -- do the tubes stick out the top as they do in many of the player mods from Modwright, or are they contained within the enclosure?

Mike, did you sell yours, or can you give it a try in front of the 70s?

Wow, noise is -122 dB -- that looks like I won't have to give up that great black background of the 70s.

One other question, and forgive me, but I just don't know anything about this HT thing, but is an HT bypass the same thing as simply passing the input directly to the output and bypassing all internal amplification and control functions?

Muchas gracias,

Jim

[miklorsmith]

The tubes are all internal.  I did sell it, but only because with the Def Pros I needed EQ and XO functions which the Mod didn't have.  It certainly wasn't for reasons of sonic quality.

I had it with Druids and Definitions and I'll say the noise floor is an inky, black hole.  Nada.

On the bypass, I believe it bypasses everything, including the tube circuit.  I never used in in my rig but it could be very handy indeed.

The Supratek stuff has a stellar reputation too.  I would guess it would be more tubey in sound than the stock Modwright, but the tube rectified version might be similar in that regard.

Good luck!

Mike

[jrebman]

For a few $'s more. http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1177898376.

Raj

Raj,

Thanks, but no thanks .  A friend had a pair of Burgundy amps, one of which died a horrible death, and the folly of first getting the company to admit to a problem, and then the months-long back-and-forth to try to remedy the situation eventually ended up in my friend essentially tossing the thing in the garbage.

In short, not a company I would do business with, and considering some pretty significant safety problems encountered when the service tech opened the thing up, I wouldn't even use them if they were given to me.

Hopefully, and probably, not all their products have these kinds of problems, but to my mind, all it takes is one.

-- Jim

[Vinnie R.]

Hi Jim,

I do have some customers using a tube preamp, and I would say that the majorit of them are using the Modwright SWL 9.0SE and love it.  I have not had to opportunity to hear it, but every one of my Sig customers who does use it in front loves it.  I believe that Srajan also used one in the Sig 30 review. 

There was a similar post on the RWA forum not too long ago:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=35372.0

Not sure if the recommendations listed here fit your requirements, but this thread might be useful to you.

Best regards,

Vinnie

[PaulFolbrecht]

For a few $'s more. http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1177898376.

Raj

Raj,

Thanks, but no thanks .  A friend had a pair of Burgundy amps, one of which died a horrible death, and the folly of first getting the company to admit to a problem, and then the months-long back-and-forth to try to remedy the situation eventually ended up in my friend essentially tossing the thing in the garbage.

In short, not a company I would do business with, and considering some pretty significant safety problems encountered when the service tech opened the thing up, I wouldn't even use them if they were given to me.

Hopefully, and probably, not all their products have these kinds of problems, but to my mind, all it takes is one.

-- Jim

Need to stick up for Supratek here.  The number of customers that have had any issues seems to be a TINY minority of owners.  It is absolutely killer stuff at the price point, and Mick stands behind everything according to everyone I've talked to (I bought a Sauvignon linestage after a few months of indecision).

Checkout the "Preamp deal of the Century" thread on audiogon (the longest thread in agon history or about anywhere else - it'll take you a month to read it) if you have any interest.

Of course, the Modwright is an outstanding unit as well.  To my ears, the Supratek provides a wider soundstage and more complete microdynamics (perhaps).  It is also completely silent with its outboard power supply.  It is significantly more expensive, I believe (the Sauv is the middle of the line, $3500 with remote volume).

Paul

[jrebman]

Need to stick up for Supratek here.  The number of customers that have had any issues seems to be a TINY minority of owners.  It is absolutely killer stuff at the price point, and Mick stands behind everything according to everyone I've talked to (I bought a Sauvignon linestage after a few months of indecision).

Checkout the "Preamp deal of the Century" thread on audiogon (the longest thread in agon history or about anywhere else - it'll take you a month to read it) if you have any interest.

Paul,

yes, I have read that thread, and I'm not saying anything about the sonics at all.  When my friend's amps were working they were fantastic.

My friend definitely did not experience a manufacturer who stood behind his product, and I'm sure while the total overall number of problems may be very small, in this case it was literally a matter of life and death as the tech found a very real HV shock hazard which was probably more a question of when, not if, as some of the exposed metal parts could have easily had a potential of several hundred volts on them.  Apparently it was just dumb luck that they didn't.

In all fairness I guess that sort of thing could potentially happen with any piece of tube gear, and maybe it's not indicative of anything particular to Supratek, but at the very least the company should have not got testy about it as if they were defending a potential liability suit.

I know the gear is, and sounds wonderful, and as I said, this could potentially be an issue with any piece of gear, but that's the experience as I witnessed it.

Yes, I suppose the tech could have been incompetent, and maybe he could even have had some sort of grudge against Supratek for whatever reason, but as there is no way I have the money for their gear it's all moot anyway.

I don't mean to offend anybody,

Jim
 

[PaulFolbrecht]

I've heard just a couple stories of bad CS, but many, many more positive ones.  Like he'll replace a unit without question if something goes wrong.  He has somebody in the states now that does service too (CA I think).

Whatever.  Maybe he's had a bad month or two in the past or something, but it seem hard for me to believe, as passionate and committed as he seems to be and as good as the stuff is.  With stories like this, you always have to wonder about the other side as well.  As you said - maybe this tech was incompetent.  How does one know?

I have no relation to him at all, of course, and don't want to sound like a shill, but this thing I bought exceeded even my lofty expectations.  I don't know if $20K+ linestages sound any better, because I've never done a home audition of such a piece, but the build quality and lack of noise couldn't get any better, even with 6SN7s that are supposedly prone to microphonics.  This is the only active pre I've found that seems to be just as transparent as a good TVC (on solo vocals - the torture test) - and yet also brings the active pre bonuses of soundstaging and dynamics.  That is the trick I'd been wondering if it was possible to pull off and this thing does it!  I can only imagine what his top of the line unit does. 

[jrebman]

Paul,

In retrospect I probably should have just let this one go.  Since I wasn't part of the actual exchanges I can only report what my friend told me.  As I said, I'm sure the sonics, and probably all else as well, are top notch and one incident, even as serious as it is, is no meter for the company as a whole.

That said, for my purposes the Modwright, the AVA, and even possibly the Odyssey Candela may be just what I need.

I again want to stress that this is a matter of personal tastes and I'm sure many will be more than happy with the Signature 70s on their own -- though I will say that most of the people who tried a tube pre in front of their RWA Signature amps have very different kinds of speakers being driven by them.  Which is to say, aside from the issues of longer cabling in an all-passive system, and the convenience factor (alright, that is part of the issue, but to my mind nothing to compromise sonics over), I had no complaints when I was using my amps with single driver, crossoverless speakers.  I want extra punch in the bottom end, more body in the mids, and to regain that elusive holographic quality that for some reason unknown to me, I can only really get with tubes in the system, and I feel pretty confident that most of this is the result of having much less efficient speakers with a very complex, albit beautifully designed and implemented, crossover in it.

I have always liked the combination of a tube front end and SS power amplification, and like Mike, the one time I had a tube pre in front of my Clari-T (even though the speakers were Abbys) it just added an extra dimension to the music, which to my ears is the sound I most prefer.  Ok, not an entirely fair comparison as the Clari-T, as nice as it was, just isn't in the same league as the Signature amps, but the basic point still stands.

I just like that tube, "je ne sais quoi" -- when it is well done, and that's me, and it's not going to change.

-- Jim