[audiochef]

I still have not recieved pictures or descriptive specks on the alpha speackers you and your buddy have claimed out performs VMPS rm40s , which  I asked for so that I at least can alegitamate analysis. Please do so  ASAP or I and and most VMPS believers will respect your claim cause I am scepticle being an aUDIOPHILE FOR25 YEARS. Much appreciated,Ipromise my pictures will post soon after yours. Stan thanks

[shokunin]

Audiochef,

Take it easy my friend, no one "needs" evidence to respect someone's claim.  Everyone has their own opinions and if he likes his Alphas, more power to him.  By the way, GR Research Alpha's information can be found here:

http://www.gr-research.com/AlphaLS/Alpha.htm

[wshuff]

Audiochef,

Check the GR forum, the Audio Circle, and the Critics Circle.  Azryan's review of his Alphas, his posts about building the Alphas, and maybe even his post about hearing the RM40s are there.  He also had pictures of the Alphas he built.

Looking forward to seeing your pictures.

[Marbles]

I know someone who owns both.

He has on two occaisions stated to me that he likes one better than the other..but never publicly.

I'll give you two guesses (out of 3) which ones he likes better.

Since he is an audio dealer he will not publicly state this, so take it as hearsay.

[audiochef]

Thanks for the site info. I am impressed with their products.Now I uderstand  the difficulty in discerning wich is better.I'm sure there is some give  and take in the  two as in all great speakers. I would love a shoot out if it can be arranged.  thanks Azryan,Marbles ,Shokunan and Wushuff

[azryan]

Audiochef, seems like you've poped up out of nowhere and in a few days posted on my comments and PM'ed me too.

Honeslty, I know you'll probably take this badly, but you write very poorly. I've looked at all your posts and I never see someone write this pooryl here. Since you say you're a very long time VMPS owner I assume you're not a child and I'd expect better from someone who seems to  be challenging me and talking about me like I'm biased.
I certainly have my fair share of crammer errors and am quite the bad spelllaaar, but your posts are really quite bad.

Plus you admit you are biased to VMPS which challenging me in the honest opinions I've made??
I 'try' very hard not to have any pre conceived bias towards anything I own or what other people own. Before I chose to build the Alpha kit I owned neither anything from GR Research or VMPS, and had greatly considered both companies designs as they're clearly both Very high end an excellent brands.

"-audiochef here. I'm still waiting on your detailed description of your speakers-"

You must have missed the review of the GR Alphas that I posted. It should be easy for you to find on both GR's site and re-posted on the Critic's Circle.

I intended to post more comments after the speakers totally broke in 'if' the sound changed, but I never noticed any clear change in them so my original review still stands as my impression of those speakers. They should be very broken in by now.

"-preferably photoes that you and your buddy are claiming have an edge on the probably less costly rm40s."

This sentence doesn't make sense to me. Sorry... I don't know what you're asking me for at all??

I've put up LOTS of pictures of me building my speakers for those who were interested in just seeing pics of someome building speakers, and for those who thought the Alphas are way too big of a project to handle. I was trying to show them that it wasn't very hard at all. Little tougher than any other 2-way speaker kit.

Also the RM40's are certainly not less costly. The total bill for my Alphas was about $2.6K, and the base Alpha kit is $1.8K. Even at the cost of premade Alpha cabinets and upgraded x-over caps and Black Hole 5 lining it's about a $4K speaker.

The price of RM40's even from a dealer w/ a heavy discount over the list price is higher than this including the fact that that Alphas are wrapped in wood veneer on all sides which is quite a costly upgrade for the RM40's. At best the 40's are about the same price as both facroty finished speakers, butthe Alphas are sold as and intended to be a 'kit'. The 40's are available as a kit, but this is not how they were desinged to be sold. I've never seen anyone who built a 40 kit post here actually.

Still waiting for AudioArchitect to do that cool and terrribly difficult 40 cabinet re-design kit. My breath is not held for it though.

"-please challenge us VMPS owners. We wellcome and thrive on it."

What kind of challenge do you want? I don't understand this either?
I have no interest in 'challenging vmps owners, or beating them at anything.

I DID want to hear the RM40's myself to hear how the Alphas compared, and got to do so and also posted those comments online here already.

And in all fairness I specifically asked the RM40 owner to come over and hear my system and comment online about it. He DID come over. Sadly, he forgot all his CD's he meant to bring, but I luckily had some of the music he meant to bring. He told me he would comment on AC, but has never done it, and it being weeks ago now that he heard my system would not be able to write much of anything about what he heard anymore.

I wrote my comments of what I heard at his place right when I came home from hearing his system so my memory would be the least foggy.

There honestly wasn't one thing better sounding about his system. I think most of this was due to his totally untreated room and middle of the room speaker placement drastically thinning out the bass end, and the listener chair being too close to the wall behind it.

I would love to compare the 40's again in my own room, so the only variable is the speakers themselves, but I'm sure it'll never happen.

I can say that I have NO doubt I could set-up the 40's in my room to sound Much better than they did in the owner's room, but I seriously doubt they'd be able to beat the Alphas at anything. Maybe the new design w/ the FST, but I don't know.
I could also totally see someone else feeling the 40's are the better speaker in thier opinion, but there's no way that either one kicks the crap out of the other. At worst it's a subtle win of preference IMO.

"-Ipromise I'll post my pictures soon after . Let's do it , no BS' , sincerely appreciate it"

You'll post pictures of 'what'? soon after I do 'what'?
Sorry, but I just don't understand you. I think very few people had written as lengthly review of their own speakers as I have ofthe Alphas (and compared to the previous speakers I've owned and still own), and put up lots of pictures of them, and written a very detailed commentary on what I heard at a nearby RM40 owner's place, and expected the RM40 owner to also in total fairness write his comments of my system and has not done it. I certainly can't force him and it's not my fault he didn't do what he said he would.

What more do you want from me?? Where's a link to all your pictures and detailed comments of your RM40's -I'm just assuming you're an RM40 owner?

I think you're not giving me any credit for all that I've already done.

[audiochef]

I do appreciate your thourough concise  (unbiased) review as best you can under your circumstances. I've just been  jamming up Holly Cole ,Dead Can Dance, harmonia mundi,police and Nora Jones on SACD and my room -16 by 14 with openings to kitchen  and  hallway. listening dis at 12 ft,two feet from rear wall  right from two feet away. Speackers 6and ahalf feet away. They rock-sollid image front and back like a B.Molicules were definately being rearanged. I'm not saying the alphAAS CANT replicate this, but I'd wellcome any shootout.

[audiochef]

I promise my dual fsts will be posted soon. Thanks for your patience, It will be worth the wait . Just one request , please dont coppy mine. Much appreciated. AUDIOCHEF . keep the hobby alive,please VERY GREATFULL!

[wshuff]

Don't copy what?

[shokunin]

Copy his dual FST tweeters per RM40.

[audiochef]

THAT'S RIGHT SHOKUNIN. THANKS FOR BEING IN TUNE! NOT THAT THE REST ARENOT IN TUNE, JUST IN TOUCH . MUCH APPRECIATE YOUR BEING INTUNE. No knock on the rest of  you, I just am very passionate about my good old fassion two channel strereo. Thanks much . [email protected]  Let's us few who appreciate this hobby promote it!
   IT is up to us annd we know it. Let us do it ,what do you say! Rockon!

[Marbles]

Please don't copy the two FST per speaker design because:

A. it doesn't sound good (which I doubt)
B. I came here to brag about it, but I want to  be the only person in the world who has it.  

Is that how you want to promote "good old fassion two channel strereo"?

Rockon!

[jackman]

Great post Marbles.  Is it just me or does this Audiochef seem like a total kook?  I suspect he has good acoustics in his room because the walls are probably well padded... At least his posts are entertaining.  

Jman

Audiochef: if you are building those little plastic models of cars, please crack a window, that glue will mess you up!

[Brian Cheney]

I've heard audiochef's system (spiral ribbon version only) and it sounded wonderful.  

B

[ekovalsky]

Sorry I never wrote about my audition of azryan's GR Alphas.  I was running late that day and stupidly forgot the bag of CD's I had chosen the night before.  And, I've been putting in huge hours at work since the audition, which was at the end of a two week vacation.  I just don't have the time to write long diatribes here!

I did listen to azryan's system for over an hour.  The Alphas were excellent.  They are very fast and very dynamic.  Low bass seemed solid, although only a little of the music we listened to had a lot of very deep bass.

There are big differences in rooms.  Azryan's room is much larger than mine with a vaulted ceiling, some room treatment, and construction of a type of foam block with concrete skeleton.  My room, in contrast, is non-treated, smaller, and closer to square (14.5' x 17').

Overall I think both speakers are excellent.  I'd have to give a slight edge to the Alpha's for transient speed and overall driver integration.  But, both may be room dependant, as I do have significant echo in my room which may degrade speed and I am forced to listen nearfield which may hinder driver integration.

From my memory, the midrange of the RM-40's is superior to the Alpha LS, more lush and natural.  The Alpha LS had a "drier" sound to me.  Not sure if this is again room related (my live room may be helping my speakers) or if the Neo8 panels are inferior to Dragoslav's neo ribbons.  My ribbons have been "fixed" by the way, before the "fix" they were terrible even when the worked.

Also, I must point out there is a big difference in our electronics.  I have Sonic Frontiers Proc3/Trans3 digital and Line3 preamp (DAC & pre with tubes), Aragon 8008BB amps (now replaced with PS Audio Classic 250).  Other than a Acoustic Reality amp, I don't remember what other electronics azryan was using but the digital front end and preamp aren't top line gear.

Really the only way to do a fair, head-to-head comparison is to drag my RM-40's over the azryan's house so we can listen to both speakers in the same room with the same equipment.

[wshuff]

Sorry for not being in tune.  I just couldn't believe that somebody would come to a board like this, tout a tweak that they made to their speakers, and then tell others not to copy it.  Just seemed a little odd to me, but I guess my initial impressions were correct.

[wshuff]

Hey ekovalsky,

Is that a bong in his hand?  

[ekovalsky]

Hey ekovalsky,

Is that a bong in his hand?  

why yes it is  

[azryan]

Hey Eric,

Thanks for coming back here. I know you're a busy guy, but when you didn't write 'anything', I did get disappointed. I hope everything's cool now though.

Hey, if you ever feel like going through the trouble... I wouldn't might you bringing over those 40's, and maybe we use your probably better preamp too and w/ everything equal we'd hear just what the diff. is between these two speakers.

And just for fun really. There's no chance that either can 'lose' no matter what the final preference turns out to be.

In fact I bet we find that there's some elements that are better on each, and several things that we might call different but not better/worse.
That's my pre-shoot-out bet. hehe

I'd put the 40's in front of the Alphas probably so those don't reflect any signal, and then move the couch back to adjust the set up triangle. Play with it till it sounded balance. Damn, that might take some time w/ those pots and putty.

I did make my ref/test CD that has all those tracks I listened to at your place on one CD, so that'd save changing CD time.

My DAC and pre is the Outlaw 950 pre/pro. I've mentioned it in my Alpha review, and certainly admit that it ain't the highest end line level signal I could send the eARTwo amp and Alphas.

I didn't get to ask you before... do you feel the lushness of the midrange that you feel is better on your 40's was there when using the Aragons I heard? I thought you had said this was more from that PS Audio amp you now use?

I don't think I've heard anyone say that any ribbons or panels are 'lush' on their own before.
I've typically seen these types of drivers refered to more as chameleons (sp?) that let the front end show through more clearly than a typical cone/dome speaker?

BTW... Yes, I certainly wouldn't call anything about my system 'lush'. I've been going in circles for over a year thinking about the direction I want to go to improve my line level signal, but am happy enough for now with what the Outlaw does.

Any other vmps owners feel the panels themselves impart a lushness to the signal?

edit -

Oh yeah... and how deranged is it to have two FST's on a single speaker? You alsready have to heavily pad down one 96db ribbon, and you're not creating any kind of line or anything.

audiochef you've certainly got yourself noticed very quickly here.

I'm sorry, let me rephrase so you can read this...

YOu HAVEgot for pleese KNOTICE that you you have goooten.

[Juan R]

audiochef is Jim Romeyn?