[Wind Chaser]

As a young lad growing up in the 1960’s I vividly remember listening to the radio, wondering how did all those people with their instruments fit inside that neat little box?  We had a GE (tube) radio in the kitchen that was on for the better part of the day.  Since nothing was on the FM band it was always tuned into one of two AM radio stations.

Music by the Turtles, the Monkey’s, the Beach Boy’s, and the Mama’s and the Papa’s was common and current.  Back then Brian Jones was still a member of the Rolling Stones and Eric Clapton was still a Yardbird – he had yet to form Cream.  Yes, those were the days before Led Zeplin, Altamont and Woodstock!  I still can remember the watching the Beatles for the first time on Ed Sullivan.  My sisters, like all girls at that time were enamored with the Beatles, but I preferred the Rolling Stones.

My parents realizing my love for music bought me my first transistor radio when I was 5.  It wasn’t till I was 12 that I had my first stereo, a Sony SQP-400A Quadraphonic!  A year later from that time forward until I was 18, I progressively went through a never ending stream of different components.  A love for audio was beginning to overshadow my love of music.

This really became apparent by the time I turned 18.  I was living at home with my parents and having a union job with good pay gave me a lot of “disposable” income.  I thought about buying a Porsche 924 turbo but plunged into the deep end of audio instead.  Then I started to buy expensive  “audiophile” records, not because I liked the music – far from it.  These records entered my collection out of audiophile protocol.  Worse yet I eventually started to weed out records from my collection for no other reason than they were poorly recorded.  As my little nephew at the time would say, "dumb stupid, dumb stupid!"

I look back at those years in amazement.  Perhaps I should have smoked more pot and bought the Porsche instead?  A few years prior Fleetwood Mac released “Tusk” and at about the same time Pink Floyd released “The Wall.”  I like both albums for different reasons but “Tusk” was rather peculiar, not only for it’s musical style, but also it was the first digitally recorded album and it sounded different.

Digital and the compact disc were inevitable and I had a huge investment in analogue.  I felt jilted by the industry and made some significant lifestyle changes and bailed out of audio in the mid 80’s.  After I sold all my gear, I recovered less than 20% of my initial investment.

Love for music led me back into audio at different times over the years, but never to the same degree as far as the amount of money I originally spent.  Today when I hear a song I like, I enjoy it.  I don’t care if it comes out of a turntable, CD player or even the AM radio.  I enjoy music because I love music.  Audio has nothing to do with it anymore.

What I find so amusing is the diehard analogue fanatic’s who really think anyone who finds contentment with digital is missing out.  What a load of bullocks!  For every vinyl recording that gets released now, there are at least 100 X more on CD.  So who’s missing out?

Audiophile vs Music Lover – Which Are You?

[Russell Dawkins]

The traditional distinction is that the audiophile puts up with the music to listen to his system, while the music lover puts up with his system to listen to the music

[rollo]

IMO you can be both. What is better than listening to your favorite music through system that can enhance the emotional impact we all crave. I have heard it said that "I can listen on a boombox and get emotionally involved", how true that is. However same music through better equipment no contest.
     Now on the other hand some audiophile systems are just that. Meaning overly detailed, bright, thin and not musical. This is of course subjective to the listener, and who is to say it is right or wrong. What is musical? Musical to me is when it hits me in the heart and I can feel the emotional impact the artist is trying to convey.
    So, what does this mean? It means to me a system that is non fatiguing and draws me in. A lesser system can give you this effect, but a better system gives you the goosebumps as well.
  Yes, I believe you can be both. What do you think?

[mjosef]

My system is a means to hear the music. Its all about the music, thats why we want the gear. And the more we hear the more gear we want, which makes us listen more, since we might be hearing more as our gear hopefully improves... kinda feels like a monkey chasing his tail.

[markC]

Here is a quote from Vance Dickason:
"Phantom image center-channel performance has almost become a fetish in high-end home loud speakers, where a particular speaker's merits are largely judged by the height, width, depth and focus of it's image and by overall soundstage quality. The ability to locate musicians playing on a stage is, of course, the intriguing aspect of stereo.     I don't think this sonic ability is important to anyone whose lifestyle does not readily facilitate sitting in one position long enough to fully enjoy such a phenomenon (unless you happen to belong to the group of enthusiasts traditionally referred to as "audiophiles")"

According to Mr. Dickason I am an audiophile.

[John Ashman]

Music lover.  Audio gear is just a tool and I buy it (and sell it) almost exclusively based on its effectiveness vs price.   Self-described "audiophiles" are generally a PITA, especially "serious audiophiles" as they buy based on perception or inflated egotistical view of their hearing capabilities (which usually doesn't pan out if put to any test).  9 out of 10 audiophiles don't hear nearly as well as they think they do. 

A music lover uses his stereo to listen to music
An audiophile uses music to listen to his stereo. 

[Daygloworange]

A music lover uses his stereo to listen to music
An audiophile uses music to listen to his stereo. 

At age 5, I discovered The Beatles 45 of " I Saw Her Standing There" in my parents record collection, and wore the grooves off the thing. Must have played it a gazillion times. I can still listen to it with the same enthusiasm. The energy of that track transcends the medium. That song rocks! 

The feeling that song stirred up in me, has never diminished over time. It never will. That's what music still does to me. It's as important to me as the air I breathe. It's a love affair for sure.

Music lover first. Musician second. Live performance third. Audio lover fourth.

Cheers   

[Bemopti123]

How can you tell that one is one and not the other?  I say, it depends on the moneys invested in titles instead of equipment to reproduce them.

Times change and people's priority changes, but I say with more age, comes a little more money for the equipment.  It might sound like a bunch of hoey, but I say that the stereo or equipment I have today is the equivalent of the junky all in one mini system I used to listen to in the late 1980s.

I admire those music lovers that have had the same system for the past 15-30 years without much change, except, the addition of difference, more up to date sources.  Usually their equipment is very well kept, but more impressive is their record/CD collection.

[Thebiker]

Music lover, it's all about the music.  But I also want the music I buy to sound as musical as possible, (within the limits that I can afford) so I run as good a system(s) as possible.  There are 4 2-channel rigs in my home, 2 of which are tube based that I use for my serious music enjoyment.  The other 2 are SS and are used as background in my office and my re-loading area (I also shoot competitively).  Hmmmm.....all my hobbies seem to be pricey .  Well, that's why I work, to have toys to enjoy .

[rollo]

Music lover.  Audio gear is just a tool and I buy it (and sell it) almost exclusively based on its effectiveness vs price.   Self-described "audiophiles" are generally a PITA, especially "serious audiophiles" as they buy based on perception or inflated egotistical view of their hearing capabilities (which usually doesn't pan out if put to any test).  9 out of 10 audiophiles don't hear nearly as well as they think they do. 

A music lover uses his stereo to listen to music
An audiophile uses music to listen to his stereo. 

 

     You should thank your lucky stars they hear what they do and buy the more expensive equip you sell. There   is an old expression in the construction industry that " a carpenter is as good as his tools". So as an audiophile/music lover the tools are just as important as the music. I mean If I did not like the music, the system would not even come into play. We all are playing music we like to begin with, so the system [tool] can only enhance that effect.
      What test? How did you arrive at the fact 9 out of 10 audiophiles do not hear as well as they think they do?
       Not picking a fight here, just those are bold statements to make in general.
rollo

[Soundbitten]

Music lover . I like to have the best sound I can afford but I find the audiophile hobby itself to be a pain in the ass   . I don't enjoy changing out componants and cables and chasing some elusive sound   . I just went through a series of different set-ups and tweaks on 2 systems last year   . I arrived at the point of satisfaction recently and the past few months I've just been enjoying the music and forgetting the vehicle   aa.  

[Zero]

All of us are audiophiles. If we were _just_ music lovers than we would still be enjoying our HTIB's, boom boxes, stock car stereos, etc..

Theres nothing wrong with being an audiophile... and I find it humorous how quickly someone (let alone an active forum member) is to denounce it. Swear to it and enjoy the tunes your system plays!

[Daygloworange]

    You should thank your lucky stars they hear what they do and buy the more expensive equip you sell.

rollo,

From a pure business perspective, he has a valid point. The people he is talking about are often anal in their relentless pursuit of audio perfection, and as such can be overbearing patrons, and always dissatisfied no matter what. They can be exhausting.

What test? How did you arrive at the fact 9 out of 10 audiophiles do not hear as well as they think they do?

In discussion, you can extrapolate, that they are overzealous in what they think they might be able to hear that other's cannot. When someone who can't hear higher than 16k starts talking about upper level harmonics.....it becomes a banal discussion.

Cheers

[John Ashman]

     You should thank your lucky stars they hear what they do and buy the more expensive equip you sell.

95% my sales are to music lovers.  I've found that most audiophiles refuse to even try much of the stuff we sell or think they can hear what it sounds like in a completely different system.  Most won't take anything home, they just say "do you sell _____?" and hang up if you don't.   Real, hearing adept audiophiles barely exist any more.  They've been replaced by people that want to believe they can hear.   Our big sales thing right now is Sonos.  THAT is a real leap forward for music lovers.  

What test? How did you arrive at the fact 9 out of 10 audiophiles do not hear as well as they think they do?

Trust me, I work around these people all the time.  I can pretend to switch a cable and they'll "hear" it (the Dunlavy test).  Most think they can hear the tiniest thing, but can't hear a major flaw in their speakers or room.  I go over and can't believe they've endured what they have for so long.  And then I have to tell them the problem and how to fix it.  And many of them ignore me.  

My favorite though, is when they perfectly describe the flaws in their speakers and then tell me why it's the CD player or cables or amp.   And I say "now, that's the character of the speaker" and they say "no, it couldn't be, I love my speakers".  Okey dokey.  Then they buy a $10K amplifier and begin the process again after the placebo wears off.  

Anyway, I know some of that comes across as dickish, but I think an audiophile is someone who desperately wants to enjoy music, but thinks the reason he can't is that his system isn't good enough, when what is lacking is in the heart.  

[John Ashman]

From a pure business perspective, he has a valid point. The people he is talking about are often anal in their relentless pursuit of audio perfection, and as such can be overbearing patrons, and always dissatisfied no matter what. They can be exhausting.

I don't mind the anal part when they actually can hear!!!   

I do have customers that will detail every aspect of a speaker and a lot of them I like to have them take home gear just to give me their "review" because I know how good they are.  But again, this is less than 1 in 10.   I'm amazed how many times a low distortion product is perceived as "lacking" by an audiophile, but then some nice couple will come in and, while they don't know the lingo, actually understand what they're hearing and say "well, we heard this really expensive product that doesn't sound nearly as good as this does" and explain exactly why and I'm like "BINGO!!!"  It's really amazing how many a novice, with no preconceptions (and younger ears generally) actually gets what many self-described audiophiles cannot.  And then they go right back to enjoying music which is exactly the whole point anyway. 

I've actually told people "how about if you give 90% of what you're about to waste to charity and let me actually solve your problem with the other 10%.  Won't that feel *much* more satisfying?"  Nope, they blow the money and don't address the problem. 

I guess what I'm saying is that there are true audiophiles and then there are the 90% that want to be an audiophile but just aren't.  Well, I guess you can love this stuff and still be clueless and technically fall under the term, but you get my drift. 

[ipy]

Music lover now but was an Audiophile until about 2 months ago ie: I bought a Bolder Ultimate MKII PS for the SB3 .  I guess like the others, we go through stages of being a music lover & Audiophile.  It's all part & parcel of this crazy but rewarding hobby of ours.

BTW, I was listening to Fleetwood Mac's Rumours last evening & I did not think I would have enjoyed the music as much if I have not been an Audiophile 1st..........

YMMV of course.

[beachbum]

windcaser yours and my musical journey are closely related, that tubed radio in the kitchen every morning yea, my mom was the one who got me loving music, and its been a long journey to where i am today, systems of all sorts and types, i believe the two audiophile and music lover are two and the same, we as music lovers need the best system our ears deserve because we want our music to sound its best, the better the system naturally the better the music sounds, just my opinion,

[rollo]

    You should thank your lucky stars they hear what they do and buy the more expensive equip you sell.

rollo,

From a pure business perspective, he has a valid point. The people he is talking about are often anal in their relentless pursuit of audio perfection, and as such can be overbearing patrons, and always dissatisfied no matter what. They can be exhausting.

What test? How did you arrive at the fact 9 out of 10 audiophiles do not hear as well as they think they do?

In discussion, you can extrapolate, that they are overzealous in what they think they might be able to hear that other's cannot. When someone who can't hear higher than 16k starts talking about upper level harmonics.....it becomes a banal discussion.

Cheers

 

    Is it me or is the general consensus of the audio retailers that audiophiles are overbearing patrons. Could it be that the retailer who does not listen to the concerns of the patron is also relevant. If I decided to go to a audio salon and the salesperson even insinuated I was wrong in my beliefs, I am out of there. Could this scenario be one of the reasons sales are down in the high end. I mean its our money right. Do not get me wrong we do not want yes men we appreciate the advise given but it is OUR EARS that finalize the sale.
     In a perfect world the customer comes in says sell me gives you the money and leaves in 15 minutes. All customers can be a pain in some way it is part of doing business. So my advice would be listen to the customer don't put him down.
     You just gave me an idea for a new topic.
thanks rollo

[Daygloworange]

    Is it me or is the general consensus of the audio retailers that audiophiles are overbearing patrons. Could it be that the retailer who does not listen to the concerns of the patron is also relevant. If I decided to go to a audio salon and the salesperson even insinuated I was wrong in my beliefs, I am out of there. Could this scenario be one of the reasons sales are down in the high end. I mean its our money right. Do not get me wrong we do not want yes men we appreciate the advise given but it is OUR EARS that finalize the sale.

Sometimes it comes down to, Do you want to be told?, or do you want to be sold?. That's all I'm saying.

Cheers

[Spirit]

Let's get real.
There is no member of the Audio Circle, not even one, who was ever a Music Lover first and an Audiophile second.  Every human being on the face of the earth has some level of love for music.  One can prove that simply by playing soothing music towards a pregnant Mother's belly.  An unborn child that but a few minutes earlier was kicking with much gusto, qucikly lowers the power of the motion, due to the fact that the music is that sooting.
Click on the "Circles" tab - How many Circles are strictly devoted to Music? One! All the others are gear related.  As a matter of fact, even the Music Circle devotes itself to many threads that are "sound" related and not music related.
We are all Music Lovers and we are all audiophiles (whatever you want to define that as being).  The main issue with being an Audiophile is that we are never completely satisfied with how the music sounds.  Oh yes, there are many times that we feel that we reach that exalted "Aaaaaaah" level, but soon the virus comes back and we proceed to make changes.  It's like Herpes.  Once you've got it, you've got it forever!