Oppo and Sanyo don't play well together

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Bob in St. Louis

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Oppo and Sanyo don't play well together
« on: 24 Feb 2007, 09:16 pm »
 
I'm  SMOKIN' HOT MAD!

It...............D*O*E*S.....N*O*T.....W*O*R*K!

Here's the players:
Harman Kardon AVR-645
Oppo 981
Sanyo PLV Z2

I hooked up my new Oppo with child like enthusiasm and I get an on screen message that says:

"DISPLAY DOES NOT CONTAIN HDCP CAPABLITY"

And Yes! They even spelled it wrong! They are telling me to shove my new purchase where the sun don't shine and they can't even spell CAPABILITY correctly!

I've pressed every button on the receiver and projector trying to get the setting/preferences 'right' and it does not work.
If I turn ON the "HDMI VIDEO OUT" on the receiver nothing works. I can hear audio, but no video displays from the three disc players I have until I turn "HDMI VIDEO OUT" OFF, then everything works except the Oppo.

HELP PLEASE!!!!!!   I'm at wit's end.......

I'm calling on ALL of my forum buddies to help me please!
Bob


TomS

Re: Oppo and Sanyo don't play well together
« Reply #1 on: 24 Feb 2007, 09:29 pm »
I wish I could help, but please don't jump off the roof yet...

I was just getting ready to order one up for myself  :(

I have a friend with Oppo 981 and Sony SXRD that works flawlessly.  We tried it on my Arcam AVP700 preamp and JVC HD-ILA 1080p and it worked great, passed through the AVP700 HDMI (video only).

Have you tried it connected straight from the oppo to the display via hdmi just to see what happens?


Bob in St. Louis

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Re: Oppo and Sanyo don't play well together
« Reply #2 on: 24 Feb 2007, 11:52 pm »
Tom, your the second guy that suggested that. I guess I'll try it. I didn't think that eliminating the receiver was the solution since I get audio to the speakers. It "appears" that the receiver knows what to do with the signal, it just can't pass it along to the "WRONG" component (the PJ).
The on screen message is created by the receiver. At least it appears to be, based on the message colors and fonts.

Thanks for the reply Tom. I'll try wiring straight to the PJ.....

Bob

Bob in St. Louis

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Re: Oppo and Sanyo don't play well together
« Reply #3 on: 25 Feb 2007, 01:07 am »
Well, I have an update and two replys from other forums that spell doom:

First reply from Bill on the HawthorneAudio forum:


--------------------------------------------------
I have to be the bearer of bad news here. I Googled the Sanyo and HDCP, and found this thread at the AVS forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=686741

First post in the thread:

Quote:
To all Sanyo PLV-Z2 owners, enough is enough. The list of DVI or HDMI products that will not work with our projector is endless. I personally have experienced this with the Scientific Atlanta 3250, 8000 and 8300 cables boxes and now the Toshiba HD-DVD player.

HDCP is the issue. The Z2 is NOT NOT NOT HDCP Compliant, no matter what they say. They know this.

Can all Z2 owners who have ever had any DVI or HDMI issues, or those who do not yet use DVI or HDMI, please post here or send me contact info via PM? Just an email will do.

I am going to call Sanyo on Monday and try to get them to admit that there is an issue. They won't, of course, but I will then inform them that they are obligated under the warranty to do something.

At that point it would be best if we all sent them a registered letter and an email (each of us) that we demand they dix the HDCP issues with the projector.

If we do nothing then nothing will be done by Sanyo sand eventually you will run into a device that will not work on your projector. Anyone who wants HD-DVD or Blue-Ray will be in that camp.


Clearly, this is not good. I scanned the 6 page thread, it looks like success using digital video in to the Sanyo is not impossible but is far from assured.

Here's what Sanyo's website says:

Quote:
for your further convenience,the DVI terminal is compatible with HDCP (high-bandwidth Digital Content Protection).*

*If the HDCP standard changes,you may not be able to display images input via the DVI terminal.


http://www.sanyo-lcdp.com/english/product/plvz2/plvz2.html

Apparently the standard has changed since the projector was built...

It looks likely that the Oppo will never recognize the Sanyo as HDCP compliant. You could feed it via component instead of HDMI/DVI, but you won't get the upscaling that was part of the point of buying the Oppo in the first place. Try it and see if the picture is acceptable to you.

From the AVS thread, it sounds like you won't get any satisfaction from Sanyo's customer service. The Oppo folks are supposed to have good customer service, I'd call them and see if they can help. If you bought it from Oppo, they have a money back guarantee, so at least you wouldn't be out the cash.

Ain't copy pretection wonderful? 

Bill
-----------------------------------------------------------
Then more bad news from Steve on HomeTheaterShack forum:

Found this from bluejeans cable on the varieties of DVI-I:


Quote:
(1) DVI-D only; this device has no signal available on the analog pins, but uses a DVI-I socket only to allow a DVI-I cable to be used;
(2) DVI-A only; this device has no DVI-D digital signal available, and is simply using a DVI socket as a port for accepting a regular analog signal format (usually RGBHV, which would include VGA). The device may be connected to any RGBHV device, using a DVI-I cable, a DVI/VGA cable, or a DVI breakout to five separate lines for R, G, B, H and V.
(3) True DVI-I; this device has both analog and digital capability through this port. It may autosense, using a digital signal if present or an analog signal if no digital signal is found, or the digital/analog mode may have to be selected manually by a switch or menu selection. 

If your projector's DVI input can't handle digital, that would explain your problems, and you're essentially screwed. No need to keep the Oppo if tht is the case.
-----------------------------------------------------

And then my pretyped update on the various attempts I've made:

UPDATE: (Day One)

I've tried two alternatives:

#1 Wire the Oppo output (HDMI) to the receiver, then component/RGB to the PJ.
-----Nothing. Blue screen. That seems odd.
(Yes, I reconfigured the PJ's input settings.........)

#2 Wire the Oppo (HDMI) to the PJ (with DVI-I adapter), then optical from Oppo to receiver.
Reconfigured the settings. I got an alternating blue screen (signaling a lack of input signal) to a black screen (the screen I get just before/while it recognizes an input), but then goes back to blue.

.......Spent an entire day of my life overcoming an industries desire not to have movies bootlegged.

Bob

TomS

Re: Oppo and Sanyo don't play well together
« Reply #4 on: 25 Feb 2007, 01:49 am »
So sorry to hear that.  Copy protection is truly lame and always has been.  I used to support a copy protected software product my company produced.  We finally decided it cost us more to support it than it would have to let the very few thieves just take it and be done with it.  I'm sure that also scales to the music industry too.  Tom

Bob in St. Louis

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Re: Oppo and Sanyo don't play well together
« Reply #5 on: 25 Feb 2007, 03:09 am »
Thanks Tom. They can burn in hell as far as I'm concerned. This is truly absolute B.S.
I've wasted a full day of my life messing with what is essentially a fancy cable. All so they can save some royalties on Bience' or Brittany or whoever..........And all I want is good A/V reproduction.

I'm so pissed.......Smilies seem so lame. None of them seem to fit right now.

Anymore ideas? I'm wide open to suggestions.

Bob

bpape

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Re: Oppo and Sanyo don't play well together
« Reply #6 on: 25 Feb 2007, 03:31 am »
Sorry to hear about that Bob.  That really sucks.  Not sure what can be done other than a massive guerilla internet campaign along with the formalized letters to them and potentially a class action lawsuit - but not sure that their little disclaimer won't let them wriggle out of it.

Until the industry gets this HDMI 1.3x spec (or 1.4 or 1.5 or whatever) and specifically HDCP figured out or killed, I'll have nothing to do with HDMI.  I'll stick with good old component video or RGBHV until the FORCE me to use it as the ONLY option.  Unfortunately, in your case, I think the HDMI is the only output that will pass the HD signal - correct?

Bryan

wshuff

Re: Oppo and Sanyo don't play well together
« Reply #7 on: 25 Feb 2007, 04:41 am »
It sounds like your Z2 isn't HDCP compliant, but here's a possible solution.  If you are just looking for a good upscaling DVD player and don't need DVD-A/SACD over HDMI, you may want to look at the Oppo 971.  I don't think it requires an HDCP compliant display.  It doesn't do 1080p, but your projector is only 720p, right?  You may want to contact Oppo and confirm, but who knows?  They may let you return the 981 for the 971, and you'd get money back.

Bob in St. Louis

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Re: Oppo and Sanyo don't play well together
« Reply #8 on: 25 Feb 2007, 02:14 pm »
wshuff - All of your statements are correct. I could get the 971, but lose the 1080p. Oppo does have a 30 day return policy.

Bryan - I've got three options: I can fight (Sanyo) for "resolution", whatever that is.  :roll:
I can give up, send the 981 back for something "lesser".
Or I could just "bend over" and take it by letting "the industry" guide my buying choices and upgrade the PJ to a true HDMI input.

I've actually considered the third option by getting the Sanyo PLV Z5.
I've been drooling over this one for months, but was NOT going to go to the wife and tell her THAT.

However, (continuing my 'mass reply' to multiple forums):

The wife woke up early this morning and came downstairs (happens very rarely) only to find me looking at the Z5 on the net.
I explained the situation to her thinking she'd roll her eyes and pat me on the head like the good little puppy that I am and she actually is sympathetic to the situation.

She says I can get a new PJ, but there's a condition (or two...):
My existing PJ would go upstairs and require a total redesign of the living rooms electrical/cable/phone wiring (all to the other side of the room). I'd have to design and build a "stealth" PJ screen that has a very high WAF. Which would eliminate the old school monster 53" Sony RPTV and make for new furniture that would go in it's place.
Oh, and then I have to remove the carpet and install wood floors in that room, the kitchen and dining room. Roughly about 1,000 square feet. Complete with new base molding, door casing and door trim in those rooms.
That's the deal.
So this $200 DVD player has snowballed into thousands of dollars.

What the hell do I do now?

Bob

wshuff

Re: Oppo and Sanyo don't play well together
« Reply #9 on: 25 Feb 2007, 02:47 pm »
Quote
wshuff - All of your statements are correct. I could get the 971, but lose the 1080p. Oppo does have a 30 day return policy.

Quote
I can give up, send the 981 back for something "lesser".


The 981 is newer and can do 1080p, whereas the 971 is limited to 1080i, so to that extent the 971 is lesser, but it is still a strong performer.  Also, even if you get the Z5 projector, it is still a 720p projector.  In other words, even with the newer projector, you won't get the full benefits of the 981's 1080p unless you get a 1080p projector.  Even if you get the Z5 and set the 981 to 1080p output, the Z5 will have to scale that resolution down to 720p.  So, whether using the Z2 or Z5, you are better off sending 720p to the projector.  Of course, the 981 can also do DVD-A and SACD over HDMI, so if you have (or get) an HDMI receiver, that would be a pretty neat trick.

I can appreciate the frustration with HDCP and incompatibility.  I'd say the odds that Sanyo will come through for you are slim.  Still, it looks like you have an understanding wife.  It would be a big project, but how cool would you be with not one, but two, projectors!  If you go that route, you may still want to look at a 971 for the Z2. 

How would you go about designing a stealth screen?  I've got a new room and eventually I'm looking to go front projection, but I want to keep my current RPTV for those times when a 100-106" diagonal screen isn't necessary.  I've found a few drop down screens, both manual and electric, for less than $500 (I think Monoprice was selling its electric screen for under $200).  I've also found a tab-tensioned electric screen for $450-500.  Then there's the portable, pull up screen for about $200 that would I could just place on the floor in front of my TV but behind my center channel.  I'd love to see what you come up with.  I'm looking for ideas, and cheaper is always better.

bpape

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Re: Oppo and Sanyo don't play well together
« Reply #10 on: 25 Feb 2007, 02:59 pm »
If it was me, I'd get the 971 and wait until they REALLY get the HDMI/HDCP thing sorted out.  Besides, by that time, the PJs will be better and cheaper.

Bryan

Bob in St. Louis

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Re: Oppo and Sanyo don't play well together
« Reply #11 on: 26 Feb 2007, 10:30 pm »
Bryan, that is my option #2 if all else fails. I figure I've got 30 days to exchange the unit for the 971.

OFFICIAL UPDATE to all forums:

I emailed Oppo Tech Support this morning. No reply yet.

I called Sanyo Tech Support. Spoke with a very friendly rep that seems more than willing to help. He had a few "quick tries" for me that I've already performed. He needs the serial number, which I don't have here at work so I'll call in the AM. He said I may need a firmware upgrade. I didn't bother to tell him that solution has never worked in any situation I've read about on the forums (I don't like when customers tell me how to do my job,...didn't figure he would either). Funny thing is, he wants the serial number to find out the firmware version, I said I can get the version number from the menu. His response was, "No, you can't. It's not possible". Ok, whatever. I'll call tomorrow with the serial number.

Bob

Bob in St. Louis

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Re: Oppo and Sanyo don't play well together
« Reply #12 on: 27 Feb 2007, 01:06 am »
I got home tonite after work to sit down and print out the directions to find my firmware number and get the serial number for Sanyo.
I received this email from Oppo:
 
------------------------------------------
Bob,
 
The DV-981HD will not properly synchronize with the Sanyo Z2 models due
to a lack of HDCP communication between the two units. For this reason,
we highly recommend the use of the OPDV971H, as it does not have any
HDCP handshake errors.
 
Best Regards,
 
Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.
453 Ravendale Dr, Suite D
Mountain View, CA 94043
Service@oppodigital.com
Tel: 650-961-1118
Fax: 650-961-1119
------------------------------------------
 
Sounds pretty "cut and dry" doesn't it.
 
Bob


Bob in St. Louis

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Re: Oppo and Sanyo don't play well together
« Reply #13 on: 27 Feb 2007, 09:03 pm »
OFFICIAL UPDATE:

Ok, Oppo wrote back regarding using one of the pseudo handshake devises:

--------------------------------------


Bob,

We have not used any of these solutions so we do not know if they will
be applicable towards properly synchronizing the two devices. You can
always try out the "DVI Doctor" from MonoPrice.com as they have a great
return policy.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.

---------------------------------------

Now, do I want to be a guinea pig for Sanyo and Oppo?
Or do I want this done and over with by exchanging for the 971?

decisions decisions....

Bob